FAQ/Help |
Calendar |
Search |
Grand Magnate
Member Since Aug 2017
Location: A house
Posts: 4,412
6 665 hugs
given |
#21
That text came off robtic sounding. Yes i get the point but for a final text? Blah. Nothing fun or anything. Not even a happy holiday or whatever. Just seemed so cut and dry. Not typical
__________________ Grief is the price you pay for love. |
Reply With Quote |
Member
Member Since Sep 2018
Location: Uk
Posts: 424
5 250 hugs
given |
#22
When you originally posted about it I read it as the others did but also to stop you contacting him. Iirc that was the second text contact? After the last meeting and I read it that he thought unless he was tough the texts would continue.
Thinking of you |
Reply With Quote |
Member
Member Since Sep 2018
Location: Uk
Posts: 424
5 250 hugs
given |
#23
On your original question, it's really hard - there is no magic. The main way I would suggest to believe in that 1% is to try (and know it's sooooooo hard) to have less black and white thinking.
So reading your posts I believe he did care, he did have fun with you, did enjoy your company. It happened. But now he has other priorities that for him come above bending the best practice to see you outside the therapy framework. That is his decision in the context of his life. It does not negate what went before. As I read it you think it does and that is what I see as the black and white thinking. I do that, struggle hugely with it so no judgment here. But it is a cognitive distortion. But I can't tell from your posts whether you feel and rationally believe it or whether you feel it but know it's not the full picture. For me I try and work towards the latter and that would give me the 1% belief. Hope this helps but if not tell me to bugger off! Only want to help you. |
Reply With Quote |
DP_2017, LonesomeTonight, SlumberKitty
|
Grand Magnate
Member Since Aug 2017
Location: A house
Posts: 4,412
6 665 hugs
given |
#24
Well I did reply and basically wished him happy holidays and said thanks. He ignored it. He could easily ignore stuff. I was never the person to be too much there. I always respected his space. He ignored several texts in the past and I let them go.
I was well aware the texting would end then. Actually when i sent the photo that am. I wrote, i know you lose your phone soon but I wanted to send this so you could see it before. I knew exactly when it all ended and he had no reason to assume I'd think we'd keep texting Also it's funny you mentioned b&w thinking. He brought it up often and even in his goodbye letter said something about remembering its not always or never. I even sent this text screenshot to my friend who is pretty rational compared to me and she said it sounded robotic __________________ Grief is the price you pay for love. |
Reply With Quote |
SlumberKitty, Waterloo12345
|
Grand Magnate
Member Since Aug 2012
Location: Anonymous
Posts: 3,132
11 129 hugs
given |
#25
Quote:
I also wonder if he could have been nervous about texting after the last session, worried that it constituted "contact" before the 2 year period. He does seem to be driven by the "rules" in that issue. The other thing that strikes me is that the robotic text was just dealing with the issue in front of him right now, responding to the photo. He didn't ignore that text. The happy holiday text that he ignored seems more benign in that way. |
|
Reply With Quote |
DP_2017
|
Grand Magnate
Member Since Aug 2017
Location: A house
Posts: 4,412
6 665 hugs
given |
#26
I want to add something else that may be important to why these thoughts are in my mind constantly.
Yes the final text was definitely the trigger. Felt robotic and uncaring but also maybe cuz it was final In one of our last sessions...I brought up how it seemed he didn't care and was unphased by all this. He asked me if I'd feel better if he cried too and I said yes but he didn't Other than laughing and our chit chat, he was emotionless and unphased the last few sessions. Like when i broke down reading my goodbye letter. He just sat there. Normally he'd say something funny or comforting or hug me. Nothing His goodbye letter seemed so professional sounding and not personal much at all. It felt like in the end the care was gone. When we hugged goodbye and I said I would miss him that was the first time he said he'd miss me. I was actually quite ok that evening and he sent a silly text late that night but then the robotic text....and my mind couldn't stop replying how casually he walked away and how unphased he seemed in session It brought me deep into believing I didn't matter after all and he didn't care anymore etc. Hence where I am now __________________ Grief is the price you pay for love. |
Reply With Quote |
RaineD, SlumberKitty
|
Grand Magnate
Member Since Aug 2012
Location: Anonymous
Posts: 3,132
11 129 hugs
given |
#27
Quote:
But the feeling that your relationship was "fake," I guess I come to it, like everyone else, with experience from the human side of it rather than the T side of it. I don't really think it's possible to fake the kind of connection you have. It is possible for someone to use that connection to get something out of you, i.e. a con artist, but it does not seem like he had any motive then or now to do so. Does that mean he cared about you in the specific way you wanted him to? I don't know. Maybe the caring was fake, but the connection wasn't. So a few years ago I developed a friendship with a con artist; she showed up at a hospital with mysterious injuries and a chronic, potentially lethal illness and I was asked to volunteer to help her with her Big Legal Problems. She was one of those people who inspired a number of us helping professionals to pull out all the resources for her. It was right after my spouse's death and she was highly intelligent, well read, and just the best conversationalist, able to talk about everything from big scientific ideas I could barely understand and personal experiences that she may or may not have had. I never revealed anything deeply personal from my past with the exception of my spouse's death and the challenges of my work and single parenting, so it wasn't a complete friendship but it was way beyond just a caretaking relationship. I helped move her from place to place as she found people to stay with and then who grew tired of her over-staying, there were times when she needed things and was bumping up against barriers in the system designed to help her, and I would just buy the things for her. Mostly I just gave her my time, as she needed lots of support, long after I'd collected the information I needed to help her legally but she was never ready to move forward with that (and I was volunteering, not expecting payment). This went on for more than 2 years. Then something happened where some of her other caretakers, more suspicious people than me (or smarter), contacted me and we collectively realized she was manipulating stories to engage people to help her. The fact that there were others helping her in different ways encouraged me, and so was true for them. Although I'd been suspicious for awhile, because of some inconsistencies in what she said, I believed she was truly in need of help and I still believe she was, she needed everything a homeless person truly needed but wasn't in need of legal assistance. I believe I would have been willing to help her no matter what, even if the true story was that she was just homeless with all the problems that entails. In my typical longwinded storytelling, the point of revealing all this is so you can understand how real my connection was to her. And it had nothing to do with the fact that we had this supposedly professional role (and unlike T's, lawyers are not prohibited from personal or social relationships with current or former clients-- not sexual relationships though, at least in my state); my connection to her was just human. We could talk in ways and enjoyed each other's company and found many points of similar experiences in different parts of the world, and of course the backstory she told about how she came to be homeless was fascinating (and that last part was all bull, I'm not sure how many other things she told me about herself were true). But no matter was the truth was of what she actually said to me, the connection was real. Beyond the connection, I felt that she truly cared for me, wanted the best for me, hoped that my struggles would get easier and I would find peace from the big grief of my life. Did she pursue the relationship with me for what I could materially give her? Maybe, although I really didn't give her much, and never money. Was I just a "mark" to her and she was hoping I'd sign over my bank account eventually? Who knows. Could she have cared for me and still gone after me as a mark? Probably. The only thing I know for sure, and that I still feel even knowing what big lies she told me and doubting that anything she said about herself was true, that the connection I felt while talking to her was real. I don't think connection can be faked. People can use connection for their ulterior motives, which I think was true for her. But that's where I think my story differs from yours. Edited to add: I just wanted to say that I think your posting about this is courageous and I like how you are straight about what you do and do not want in responses-- it seems like this has been hard for you to talk about but I feel like your persistence in trying for some resolution is leading you someplace important. The issues you are raising are big and important ones, and I hope you will find the support you need here. Last edited by Anne2.0; Jan 14, 2019 at 07:31 AM.. |
|
Reply With Quote |
DP_2017, LonesomeTonight, precaryous, RaineD
|
Grand Magnate
Member Since Aug 2012
Location: Anonymous
Posts: 3,132
11 129 hugs
given |
#28
|
Reply With Quote |
precaryous
|
Grand Poohbah
Member Since Jul 2017
Location: Neverland
Posts: 1,805
6 4,957 hugs
given |
#29
DP, I think you're doing an amazing job respecting his space. Many would have contacted him by now, and your forbearance speaks of strength.
I wonder if reading about all kinds of relationships ending would help? Break ups of all kinds hurt, and this is the feeling of being left. It is a horrible feeling, and it is deeply part of life and of human experience. It ties us together. Many whose significant other cheats/leaves /ends a relationship ask these same questions - did you ever love me, did your heart harden to me now and you no longer care? Sometimes the other person grieved the whole relationship before taking action, so they are at the end of a long process before leaving- but their love was real in its time. If your T cared, he still cares. Maybe in a never-ending story kind of way but probably he thinks of you. It may be he made a really tough decision he feels is in your best interest. Failing at a job and a marriage puts hardly anyone one in the right place in their heart to be connected and be healthy in relationship without a lot of work and time. __________________ Living things don’t all require/ light in the same degree. Louise Gluck |
Reply With Quote |
DP_2017, LonesomeTonight, precaryous
|
Grand Magnate
Member Since Aug 2017
Location: A house
Posts: 4,412
6 665 hugs
given |
#30
Quote:
The letter would be in the trash if he hadn't included a joke at the end. I didn't like any of it otherwise. Same crap he probably says to everyone __________________ Grief is the price you pay for love. |
|
Reply With Quote |
Grand Magnate
Member Since Aug 2012
Location: Anonymous
Posts: 3,132
11 129 hugs
given |
#31
One other thought about the text and its trigger to change your feelings. Do you think there is some unconscious belief that was hidden during the course of your therapy that was suspicious that he truly cared for you (that couldn't deeply hold onto the belief that he could care for you) and was just waiting for the "proof" that this was true?
|
Reply With Quote |
DP_2017, LonesomeTonight
|
Grand Magnate
Member Since Aug 2017
Location: A house
Posts: 4,412
6 665 hugs
given |
#32
Anne
I never believe anyone cares about me. My best friend says she loves me and I laugh at her. I told my t he was never allowed to say he loved me even if he did because I'd instantly distrust him So believing I mattered and he cared was unusual for me and tough for me. I often tested him about it. It was probably about a year into therapy when I let myself accept it and truly believe it Now I'm back to my old self __________________ Grief is the price you pay for love. |
Reply With Quote |
Anne2.0, LonesomeTonight, precaryous
|
Anne2.0
|
Grand Magnate
Member Since Aug 2012
Location: Anonymous
Posts: 3,132
11 129 hugs
given |
#33
Quote:
Edited to add: I think even under the best of circumstances, a letter and sometimes even an email or anything written is a hard exercise for T's. My T said one reason why he likes his job is because it uses his verbal and listening skills and doesn't require communication (except what he considers rote stuff for insurance) by writing. He doesn't like to write and doubts his ability to communicate effectively in that mode, hence why he dropped out of his creative writing major. They also don't get training on written communications and I believe from reading stories here, that at least some T's really suck at it. But I think, more broadly, that you may be reframing the "evidence" to support your "old self" position that he doesn't really care. Maybe it is the work of the confirmation bias: Confirmation bias - Wikipedia |
|
Reply With Quote |
LonesomeTonight, susannahsays
|
Magnate
Member Since Oct 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 2,787
5 7 hugs
given |
#34
Honestly, I don't think this is about his responses to you. You repeatedly say you don't trust people to be real with you. You even laugh at your friend when she says she cares. No matter what your therapist did or how he responded, your default was always going to be that he didn't care because that is your armor.
He can't fix this for you because until you choose to trust other people, this will always be your response. He could have fallen on his knees crying and professing his love to you, and I truly believe you would have still faulted him in some way as not being real (and it would have been out of his personal character probably so it actually would have been fake). At this point, you have to decide that the sky is actually blue but you are determined, no matter what anyone says to you, to argue that it it green. Until you see and trust the reality, no one can help you with that but yourself. |
Reply With Quote |
DP_2017, elisewin, Kk222, LonesomeTonight, susannahsays, Taylor27, toomanycats
|
Grand Magnate
Member Since Aug 2017
Location: A house
Posts: 4,412
6 665 hugs
given |
#35
Quote:
The huge reason for my friend (I think) why it was so different, after 7 years I can't get to that point at all with her, is, she flakes out on me constantly. We don't live in the same state and only see each other 1 or 2x a year, so we talk via text. There are times, she literally wont say a word to me for 3 weeks. Sometimes I will text her that I'm having a crap day, hoping to get her to text and make me laugh or something and she ignores it. It's been very hard... plus with her, she did once tell something to "friends" of hers that I told her in secret and it really upset me because she said they all had a good laugh about it. So while I trust she cares in some ways... like she's good at handling my anxiety because she's rational and can talk me down from things, and she still makes the effort to visit me every year... I don't think she loves me or cares much beyond that. Like if we stopped being friends, I don't think it would phase her, she's the type to just go on and not be bothered by things like that. Plus with T, I had interactions every week, it would be pretty bad if I didn't believe there was care in that case I'm only questioning it now because I'm reflecting... and only seeing the bad. I see him walking away, I see his robotic text and "professional" letter, I see the unphased emotion and reaction he had in the end and it all just makes me think... ok then... maybe he didn't... other than when he had to? That's where I'm stuck And FYI had he got on his knees and done that, I would have laughed because it would be seriously absured. I just wanted some emotion, something that showed he was sad and struggling to, a way to feel like it DID still matter to him. __________________ Grief is the price you pay for love. |
|
Reply With Quote |
LonesomeTonight
|
Member
Member Since Sep 2018
Location: Uk
Posts: 424
5 250 hugs
given |
#36
Quote:
Eta: wrote before read the rest but perhaps weight of views can help change your mind I also think Anne may have something with the confirmation bias. As for fixable- for me I pray it is and I think it is cause I am getting better but I hear your difficulties in this area. Eta: maybe being stoic is how he holds in his emotion. You'll not catch me crying and showing vulnerability. You'd think from my outside appearance I was just see you later alligator but be dying inside. So maybe that's him? He felt he had to be the strong one? |
|
Reply With Quote |
LonesomeTonight
|
Always in This Twilight
Member Since Feb 2015
Location: US
Posts: 20,744
(SuperPoster!)
9 74.9k hugs
given |
#37
Quote:
And I agree about the letter, where he may have felt he had to be professional. My T has said that ex-MC is probably being careful in what he replies to me over email since termination for that same reason. I mean, if he said, "I'm so sorry that I hurt you with my actions/mistakes," that could be seen as admitting fault, if I opted to report or sue him. So maybe your T is trying to be extra professional now, both with the letter and the no-contact. |
|
Reply With Quote |
Waterloo12345
|
Grand Poohbah
Member Since May 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 1,734
6 542 hugs
given |
#38
DP - I'm really sorry you are going through this, and I so totally empathize, but this right here simply isn't true. You posted all the time about how you didn't believe he really cared - especially after things changed and he started putting boundaries in place.
Last edited by toomanycats; Jan 14, 2019 at 09:20 AM.. |
Reply With Quote |
Echos Myron redux
|
Magnate
Member Since Feb 2016
Location: Appalachian Mountains
Posts: 2,040
8 15 hugs
given |
#39
Quote:
I would caution you against waiting two years and believing that he's doing the same for you. A lot can happen in two years. He might meet somebody else, you might meet somebody else, just be open to the possibilities and don't shut yourself away waiting for him. Because he might not be there for you at the end of two years. __________________ "I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned." --Richard Feynman |
|
Reply With Quote |
Echos Myron redux, growlycat
|
Grand Poohbah
Member Since Jul 2017
Location: Neverland
Posts: 1,805
6 4,957 hugs
given |
#40
Quote:
__________________ Living things don’t all require/ light in the same degree. Louise Gluck |
|
Reply With Quote |
LonesomeTonight
|
Reply |
|