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guilloche
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Default Feb 26, 2019 at 01:15 PM
  #1
Last week, I got dumped by the previous T. Overall, I'm OK with it... things weren't working, and until that session, I honestly didn't realize just how far apart we were. I thought we had dealt with some of this already.

One thing that bugs me though. She said that she often felt awkward talking to me, and afraid to say things, because she thought I would judge her.

This bugs me. I didn't feel like I was judging her, so I think/assume this may have been something that she needed to work on (i.e. I wasn't doing anything, but she was projecting this on to me).

But the more I think about it, the more I wonder - why does it matter?

People get judged all the time! And, who am I? Even if I were silently judging her (which I wasn't!) - why does that matter? I mean, sure, it doesn't feel *great*, but as a therapist... shouldn't you have enough of a sense of self to realize that the person sitting before you, who has spent a couple decades in therapy and hasn't really had any kind of success, that their opinion/judgments about you might not reflect any kind of objective reality about how who you are? Shouldn't you be confident enough in yourself that you're not fearful of what someone on the couch might be thinking about you? I get that it's a very human reaction, but it seems really un-T-like.

Old T just before her was better at this. He told me, early on, "I hope you realize, you could come in and tell me that I'm the best T you've ever seen, or that I'm awful and the worst person ever - and either way, I'll be OK. It's not that I don't care, but that it really isn't going to affect my sense of myself." (I'm probably changing the exact words, but that was the sense.)

Also, once... I can't remember exactly what he said, or what I said... but I must have given him some indication that his response wasn't really that great/useful, because he kind of chuckled and said, "Yeah, sometimes I say really stupid things!" - not in a mean way or a hurtful way, but in a very self-deprecating way that made me laugh.

And really... don't we ALL sometimes say really stupid things? (I know that I do!) So why was old T so scared that I would judge her?

I think it's just bugging me, because I kind of feel like I need a T who has a sense of "stability" - that they're not going to react to me, or we'll get caught up in a downward spiral of bad reactions all around. I'm already unstable enough in my moods and reactions, one of us needs to be able to be calm and steady!

Have you guys ever noticed with a T before? That they weren't really that "stable" feeling, like they hadn't quite gotten a handle on their own stuff yet? Or that they seemed to think you thought negatively of them, when you didn't?
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Default Feb 26, 2019 at 01:27 PM
  #2
Yes , I did notice this with one of my T's , but it wasn't that serious , I was just aware of it , and said twice when I thought it was affecting things.

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Default Feb 26, 2019 at 03:44 PM
  #3
I have worked with a lot of unstable Ts. One of the things I absolutely love about my current T is that he is really solid and very good at being “the calm in the storm” and it doesn’t matter if the storm is directly at him or just around him... he is calm and super solid.
This week I knew before I got up to his office that he had a rough start to his week which he confirmed. As soon as he sat down though he was 100% with it and focused on our work.

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Default Feb 26, 2019 at 03:49 PM
  #4
Definitely sounds like that was your T's problem. Maybe some counter-transference going on. The T shouldn't have told you that. It should have been dealt with in supervision or in your T's own counseling. It definitely sounds like projection. I had a T do something like that "attribute a motive to me that was not my motive" in her response to me. Only kept that T four sessions and then we both decided to move on. HUGS Kit

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Default Feb 26, 2019 at 04:09 PM
  #5
Frankly, that says more about her than about you. She clearly has issues she hasn't worked through.

Being afraid to talk to a client because of fear of judgment is a serious flaw for a T. Indeed, so what if you were judging her? The professional thing to do would have been to explore that with you without being defensive. And certainly not make her afraid to engage for fear of being judged.

I guess one positive is that this helped to show you what to look for in another, new, T.
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Default Feb 26, 2019 at 09:38 PM
  #6
Thanks, everyone. I appreciate your thoughts on it. It just keeps striking me as so crazy. I think I should have seen this as a huge red flag, but really, I didn't because we talked about it pretty early on. I assumed that we had dealt with it - I didn't realize she was *still* carrying that around. That confuses me.

OutThere - Thanks. Cool that you were able to notice when it was an issue and bring it up with your T. I didn't realize when it was happening, because I had assumed that we were good after talking about it, and that it wasn't an ongoing problem.

I think what bugs me more is that I told her about that first T, and how hard it had been to have him assume that I hated him when I didn't, and that seemed crazy to me, but she seems to have fallen into the same pattern...

Omers - Your T sounds AMAZING! That's exactly the type of T that I want, but they seem really hard to find! Any tips, or did you just find yours by luck?

SlumberKitty - Thanks... I think you're right (re: she shouldn't have told me, and should have dealt with it on her own) - I'm not sure what she expected me to do/change in response, since it didn't seem to be a concrete thing. I think that she thought she was sharing something that other people might feel too, but I don't know.

Rive - Thanks, especially for pointing out that that's a serious flaw for a T. And, you're right - I'm a little clearer now on what kind of T I want... (but not sure how to find someone like that).

Thanks for listening and let me ramble.
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Default Feb 26, 2019 at 10:54 PM
  #7
Sounds like her issue, not yours. I know it's hard to have to change therapists, but this sounds like it was a blessing for it to end. Just not the T for you. Hope you have better luck finding a better therapist for you.
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Default Feb 26, 2019 at 11:13 PM
  #8
Yes, I've experienced this as well. It does sound like projection. And the way your reasoning comes across, you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders, so you may be more solid than the therapist.

I don't believe this has anything to do with that match concept as she doesn't sound like a good match for anyone. Hopefully she will seek therapy and get some help.

I mostly wanted to say I give you lots of credit for being sure of yourself and viewing the change in a positive light, optimistic but realistic attitude.
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Default Feb 27, 2019 at 07:29 AM
  #9
I think that what people mean when they say they are "afraid" of "being judged" can mean different things. I don't know whose issue this is, it could be both of yours, and I don't doubt that therapists have issues that can impact therapy just in the way is being speculated.

I don't think it necessarily means "I'm so fragile I can't be criticized at all." I think "judging" other people, and how it feels to be on the other end, isn't necessarily about the criticism per se but about how the communication happens in general.

I was listening to an audiobook of a life coaching session by Mel Robbins where a woman was describing her history of physical abuse in childhood and then her current relationship with her sister, who also went through this horror with an alcoholic father. The woman said that her sister's way of dealing with it was to leave home as soon as possible and "go the other direction" and marry a woman. She also said that her sister didn't want to talk about their childhood with her. Mel pointed out this was "judgey" and then continued on to unpack the assumptions and the blame that were a part of this woman's beliefs. For one, what a stereotyped belief about being LGBTQ, that women's sexuality is somehow changed by abuse by men. It's also a denial of what is likely the truth, that her sister is living as who she is and what she wants. And you can imagine how it might affect someone whose sister believes she's gay because of an abusive childhood rather than a real love for women. Who'd want to talk to a sister like that?

So I think "judgey" can be more nuanced and complex than just criticism, and in my experience with "judgey" people, it can be difficult and tedious to try to take on their assumptions and conclusions. Often "judgey" is close minded and unempathetic, and by lacking empathy I mean the inability to see things from another's point of view.

Only you can know whether this way of communicating might be a part of how you do things. I also think it's easy to throw out terms like "projection" and "transference" as if someone can really know what's going on with another person. There might be some value in you questioning whether this easy-off approach to a conflict is really all there is to it. I think sometimes the value of anything distressing in therapy is an opportunity to learn something about how you communicate and what you can do better. Of course not all therapists are up to the job, but it's possible to explore with another one if that might work out for you. It doesn't sound like this is a relationship that you want to repair but I kind of think if it's bugging you like it seems it is, it's worth some wider attention at some point.
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Default Feb 27, 2019 at 09:34 AM
  #10
ArtleyWilkins - Thanks! And, yeah, I do think it's a good thing, in the end, that we terminated. It was just such a surprise, as I really, honestly thought we'd dealt with this already - I didn't know she was still feeling like this. Maybe that's part of what's bothering me - this sense that we had talked about this, and I thought we dealt with it. I went forward, thinking we were on the same page and that the relationship was OK, when from her point of view it wasn't. It feels weird now, and I might have communicated differently if I had realized that - although in the end, I don't know that it really would have made a difference. There were already enough other things that made me realize I didn't feel comfortable opening up to her, I think this (having to be more careful in my communication) would have just added to that.

Octoberful - Aww, thank you! (Love the name, btw!) I actually liked this therapist and thought she worked really hard to try to be helpful, but this just *feels* like it's something on her end. I don't know, it was just a bit weird.

Anne2.0 - Thanks, that's interesting and a lot to consider. It feels a bit different, in that Mel was able to actually break out what felt "judgy" about the communication. This T wasn't really able to do that - and by focusing on herself, it changed the conversational focus to her, I think. There was never anything concrete about what I was doing, and since I wasn't feeling "judgy", it was genuinely confusing as to where that was coming from.

Maybe the bigger problem is that whatever she was trying to convey, she didn't do it in a way that was useful in the context of therapy - telling me that she was afraid to say things and afraid that I was judging her, that actually shuts down the conversation. At that point, what can I do? I apologized and reassured her... but that doesn't seem like a path forward for therapy. Perhaps I should have tried asking more questions to better understand, but again, I'm not sure that me probing my therapist's feelings/reactions is really that therapeutic...

If there was something deeper there (re: assumptions, like in your example) that might have been helpful, but she didn't convey any of that to me.
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