[LonesomeTonight]

Found this article on using music in therapy

[Oxolyric]

Hi LT and all other contributors to your thread
Music is important to me-I play guitar- my therapist also plays bass as an aging blues rocker- I’ve listened to his band on YouTube and find the music a bit loud and dissonant and I know that he’s not a fan of the manic street preachers and Leonard Cohen so I can’t imagine playing something and expecting him to listen and understand why it means something to me when he may be feeling like screaming and leaving the room- it seems I would be placing him between a rock and a hard place- if he was very enthusiastic I might think that we have a shared interest which shifts the relationship in my mind and if he wasn’t then rejection/he doesn’t really care etc .....
On a. Slightly comedic note-I terminated the relationship very painfully and went back to read my records last week taking iPod /headphones with me -uncharged of course! -and he came to check on me while the intro to” creep”was playing - I couldn’t help but say the “I’m a creep I’m a weirdo you’re so ...
special -to which he replied “ can you play that-the chords are really difficult “. ( they’re not) and then “I’m not a weirdo I’m eccentric” - there was connection through the music at that moment but it was not staged and it worked

So LT I understand where you are coming from ,genuinely,but I agree with another poster that you probably won’t get what you need from a one sided almost forced situation

[LonesomeTonight]

Debating whether to play something today (and which thing to play) or to just talk about it. I might see how I feel when I get there. If I did play something, I'd want to do that fairly early in the session, so we could discuss it a bit then move on to other topics if it goes nowhere.

In terms of what to play...do I pick a song that has lots of meaning to me, but if he looked at the lyrics, it would likely completely mystify him, because the main topic of the song isn't connected to what it makes me feel? Or one that also has a fair amount of meaning, but somewhat more obvious/direct lyrics? Or one that has slightly less meaning (in terms of ex-MC), but really obvious/direct lyrics?

ETA: It's not the Beatles, but to draw an analogy from songs more people would be familiar with: Say "I Am the Walrus" or "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" had lots of emotional effect on me. The lyrics don't make much sense, but they affect me for some reason. Versus...uh, "Ob-la-di, Ob-la-da" where the "life goes on" would seem relevant, but maybe not the rest of it? (That's probably not the best example, just something where the verses might not be relevant but chorus is.) Versus something like "Yesterday," which has very obvious lyrics, even if it didn't meant that much to me in relation to this particular situation? Again, I'm NOT talking about these particular songs, and am honestly not much of a Beatles fan (aside from a few particular songs), just trying to pull examples.

[ArtleyWilkins]

How important is this really? I guess I am not understanding now why this is a thing if you didn’t already have a very specific piece in mind for a very specific reason.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins

How important is this really? I guess I am not understanding now why this is a thing if you didn’t already have a very specific piece in mind for a very specific reason.

Well, I did have a specific piece in mind, but then started overthinking it (which is sort of the story of my life...)...If last session, he'd just been like, "Sure, go for it," I might have just played it right then, honestly. The main reason I feel it's important is I've come back to the idea of playing music for him a few times over the course of, say, 6 months. I keep thinking about it. So that suggests there's some reason I want to do that, even if it might not turn out to be much of anything.

ETA: I think it was his asking that I print out the lyrics that made me think he might focus on the lyrics quite a bit.

[ArtleyWilkins]

This honestly doesn't seem to be about the music. You seem fixated on this, like by playing the right piece, you are going to get something FROM your therapist out of it. Maybe that's really what is going on here so maybe you just need to explore what you are thinking you'll get from this (which is probably why your therapist questioned you about it; I'm guessing he thinks you don't even realize what you are trying to get out of it and also feels this isn't really about the music).

I'm a musician. If I was going to share a piece with my therapist, I would know exactly why and exactly what piece because it would be about the music and its connection to something very specific in me/my life. I'm not getting that sense from you. I'm getting a "I want to place this music to gain some cosmic connection to my therapist" vibe which I'm afraid you probably won't get and then this will become this several weeks long thing where you analyze why your therapist isn't understanding you or connecting to you or something like that.

It all seems, as someone else mentioned, very teenager-like. Very fantasy-like. Rather than very truly specifically purposeful.

[comrademoomoo]

Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins

This honestly doesn't seem to be about the music. You seem fixated on this, like by playing the right piece, you are going to get something FROM your therapist out of it. Maybe that's really what is going on here so maybe you just need to explore what you are thinking you'll get from this (which is probably why your therapist questioned you about it; I'm guessing he thinks you don't even realize what you are trying to get out of it and also feels this isn't really about the music).

I'm a musician. If I was going to share a piece with my therapist, I would know exactly why and exactly what piece because it would be about the music and its connection to something very specific in me/my life. I'm not getting that sense from you. I'm getting a "I want to place this music to gain some cosmic connection to my therapist" vibe which I'm afraid you probably won't get and then this will become this several weeks long thing where you analyze why your therapist isn't understanding you or connecting to you or something like that.

It all seems, as someone else mentioned, very teenager-like. Very fantasy-like. Rather than very truly specifically purposeful.

I was the someone else who made the teenage reference. I would like to clarify that I made that reference with no negative judgement attached to it. Exploring this teenage desire (if that is what it is) could be a fruitful bit of work; I don't like the implication that something "teenager-like" is something immature or a piece of nonsense frippery. Exploring our teenage self can be a way of accessing knowledge about our maturation, sexuality, passions, peer-led behaviours, etc - all kinds of really important factors which show in our adulthood.

Also, you describe how you would work with music in therapy and that seems to suit you. LT can aim to work with music in her own way. Being a musician does not give you special insight into the therapeutic benefit of including music in the therapy room, in the same way as art therapy is not the reserve of artists.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

I was the someone else who made the teenage reference. I would like to clarify that I made that reference with no negative judgement attached to it. Exploring this teenage desire (if that is what it is) could be a fruitful bit of work; I don't like the implication that something "teenager-like" is something immature or a piece of nonsense frippery. Exploring our teenage self can be a way of accessing knowledge about our maturation, sexuality, passions, peer-led behaviours, etc - all kinds of really important factors which show in our adulthood.

Also, you describe how you would work with music in therapy and that seems to suit you. LT can aim to work with music in her own way. Being a musician does not give you special insight into the therapeutic benefit of including music in the therapy room, in the same way as art therapy is not the reserve of artists.

Thanks for clarifying that--I didn't really see it as immature or "frippery" (love that word!) I think it could be valuable to examine. And one of Dr. T's focus areas in therapy is teenagers, actually. So maybe he's good at speaking to that part of me? I do feel my teen side comes out more with him, while ex-MC was more my child side. I'm not sure if that might just suggest a greater maturation in therapy or something else about the relationship (or both). Maybe it means that I need to talk about teen LT more in there? If music is a path to getting there, I think it could help. Tapping into my teenage self who published a fanzine (for a different band).

[ArtleyWilkins]

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

I was the someone else who made the teenage reference. I would like to clarify that I made that reference with no negative judgement attached to it. Exploring this teenage desire (if that is what it is) could be a fruitful bit of work; I don't like the implication that something "teenager-like" is something immature or a piece of nonsense frippery. Exploring our teenage self can be a way of accessing knowledge about our maturation, sexuality, passions, peer-led behaviours, etc - all kinds of really important factors which show in our adulthood.

Also, you describe how you would work with music in therapy and that seems to suit you. LT can aim to work with music in her own way. Being a musician does not give you special insight into the therapeutic benefit of including music in the therapy room, in the same way as art therapy is not the reserve of artists.

Any inference of negativity is solely yours. I am simply saying that this appears to really not be about the music and LT probably needs to explore that, which is also what her therapist seems to have honed in on. Save your judgment (ironically) for someone else.

[comrademoomoo]

Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins

Any inference of negativity is solely yours. I am simply saying that this appears to really not be about the music and LT probably needs to explore that, which is also what her therapist seems to have honed in on. Save your judgment (ironically) for someone else.

I am disagreeing with your description that playing music is not "very truly specifically purposeful". This describes the action as holding little to no value (that's a negative in most people's books). I am not judging you, I am disagreeing with you.

[circlesincircles]

I hope that whatever you decide goes well today, LT. Skimming through your thread, I'm wondering how much of it is about your T's reaction to the music vs. your reaction to it in his presence. It sounds mostly like a way of eliciting emotion for you, and his reaction to the actual content of the song doesn't have to be all that important. Being able to process what comes up for you in response to the song, in an immediate way, seems like what you're trying to achieve.

ETA: Not to dismiss the importance of what it's like for you to share it with him. But again, I think that's something you can process that's independent of his reaction to the music.

[susannahsays]

I'm a little bit uneasy for you if you go in with the plan of just playing a song because you've been thinking about it for a long time - and just want to do it and see what happens. The reason I feel this is because I think there is a risk that it will not achieve whatever it is you're hoping for (I realize you don't know what that is), and that will trigger things in some way. I am under the same impression as Artley regarding your possible motive/hope behind sharing a song. Of course, it might be something else entirely, but I think if you are hoping for connection through the music, you will probably be disappointed. I think I read on the couch that this could be some way of communicating something you don't have the words for. The thing about that is music is such a personal thing, and people can have completely different reactions. Plus, your therapist isn't big on music. It seems like you might be trying to communicate something in a language he won't understand. I'm not especially worried about him requesting the lyrics, as he's right that it can be very difficult to tell what musicians are saying. But that does seem to indicate that you're going to have to put what the song means to you in words. Even if you don't need him to feel what you feel when listening to a song, I do assume you want him to know what you feel. So if you're going to do this, I would at least try to identify those feelings beforehand.

[goatee]

I also think it’s perfectly okay to feel you have a need to do something in general (play music for your T and share it with him) and yet not know exactly what that looks like (what song to play first as you step into doing this). I’ve definitely had that happen with me with my T- not with music specifically but with other needs I’ve had. I hope it all goes well for you today- fingers crossed.

[comrademoomoo]

Originally Posted by susannahsays

I'm a little bit uneasy for you if you go in with the plan of just playing a song because you've been thinking about it for a long time - and just want to do it and see what happens. The reason I feel this is because I think there is a risk that it will not achieve whatever it is you're hoping for (I realize you don't know what that is), and that will trigger things in some way. I am under the same impression as Artley regarding your possible motive/hope behind sharing a song. Of course, it might be something else entirely, but I think if you are hoping for connection through the music, you will probably be disappointed. I think I read on the couch that this could be some way of communicating something you don't have the words for. The thing about that is music is such a personal thing, and people can have completely different reactions. Plus, your therapist isn't big on music. It seems like you might be trying to communicate something in a language he won't understand. I'm not especially worried about him requesting the lyrics, as he's right that it can be very difficult to tell what musicians are saying. But that does seem to indicate that you're going to have to put what the song means to you in words. Even if you don't need him to feel what you feel when listening to a song, I do assume you want him to know what you feel. So if you're going to do this, I would at least try to identify those feelings beforehand.

I agree with this. I think it is an uneasy thing to do and I feel awkward and ungainly reading about the prospect of LT doing it. Teenage feelings. I also think this could be part of the work - exploring what it is to be misunderstood, to not be able to share an inner experience, to have the mixer tape go unplayed by your crush. The heartbreak! It's hard and it's potentially embarrassing, but it's a lovely piece of work to come out of something as seemingly innocuous as wanting to play a song in therapy.

[Elio]

I often want to just do something in session without talking about it. For me, for some reason the act of talking about it starts to bring out feelings that it's a bad thing to want to do it or I'm some how or some reason stupid for liking it ... thinking it's important to me. It's like the discussion, analyzing, intellectualizing the whatever, results in it feeling judged. I haven't gotten to why this is for me. I've only gotten to recognizing it is there.

There is the potential for disappointment, there is also the potential for words to be found to describe the feelings. It was also nice to have my T ask me questions about the music -- "showing interest in something I like". So... risk/reward.

[LonesomeTonight]

Will write more later, but we discussed it for a bit first, then I ended up playing him a song (I stared out the window while it played). It actually went pretty well. When they sang one line, he was like, "I bet that line has meaning to you," and I said yes. After it was over, he said was interesting song that reminded him of something (he's going to ask someone about it who he thinks will know what song he means). And we discussed a few parts of it. Then ended up in a discussion about art and self-expression in general. It was an interesting session. And actually did make me feel more connected to him (for better or worse...) despite his assorted warnings. Incidentally, I'm not the first client who has played music for him (some played their own songs), so I have to wonder if someone had a bad reaction to his reaction before? Of course, as I said to him, I'm going into it with such low expectations... I think I half-expected him to just shrug and be like, "OK, next topic!" But it felt like a good session, if a bit off the usual path. And I'd feel comfortable sharing more music with him in the future, too.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by Elio

I often want to just do something in session without talking about it. For me, for some reason the act of talking about it starts to bring out feelings that it's a bad thing to want to do it or I'm some how or some reason stupid for liking it ... thinking it's important to me. It's like the discussion, analyzing, intellectualizing the whatever, results in it feeling judged. I haven't gotten to why this is for me. I've only gotten to recognizing it is there.

There is the potential for disappointment, there is also the potential for words to be found to describe the feelings. It was also nice to have my T ask me questions about the music -- "showing interest in something I like". So... risk/reward.

I said this first part to him at the beginning--that I was afraid we'd talked about it too much and made it into this big thing. He said he thought the opposite, that because we'd discussed it, wasn't as big of a deal. I had initially felt judged like you said you do, so thanks for validating that.

I feel I ended up taking a risk and getting a reward here. I know it could have gone badly, but I'm impressed with how my T handled it. I really didn't think we'd discuss it much at all. The fact that he picked out a line that he figured had meaning to me, and was correct about it (it wasn't necessarily an obvious line to pick out, though they do repeat it some)--that meant a lot and made me feel understood. The whole experience made me feel like he was really trying to understand me and why I was choosing to communicate in this way. He said he thinks the way I deal with therapy is that I'm trying to really express my inner world and be understood, and this was one way I was trying to do that. I agreed.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Elio

I often want to just do something in session without talking about it. For me, for some reason the act of talking about it starts to bring out feelings that it's a bad thing to want to do it or I'm some how or some reason stupid for liking it ... thinking it's important to me. It's like the discussion, analyzing, intellectualizing the whatever, results in it feeling judged. I haven't gotten to why this is for me. I've only gotten to recognizing it is there.
... So... risk/reward.

We are asserting ourselves in doing this. Maybe our ts are being a little hamhanded sometimes in how they handle it? You dont want to trample the little bud, delicate little flower that i am!

I dont think they get that for some of us, "why do you want to do that?" really means in parent-talk, "this is (i.e., YOU are) not important enough to attract my attention - go away NOW."

[SlumberKitty]

Glad playing the song went well LT!

[Salmon77]

Really glad you felt good about it!