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Default Feb 14, 2019 at 04:52 PM
  #61
Sounds like waiting a bit before sharing stuff might be a good thing to try more for you!


I sometimes wait to write stuff down for others, and sometimes don't do it at all. Sometimes I feel like writing it up right away and do so. I'd feel very pressured if I'd always share stuff right away or would write down everything. It would feel intrusive too, there's a reason why I want information I share with my T to be confidential.
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Default Feb 15, 2019 at 07:20 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight View Post
Funny, I replied including the term "deferential" before seeing your reply. I find this authority figure conversation rather fascinating. I'm going to have to think about it more (it was one of my plans during T's break). I think for me it's somehow tied into my wanting to please people. Like T talked about last session how it seems I seek praise from people I see as authority figures. I said partly that, but also how rejection or...lack of approval? affected me even more, but maybe those are kind of the same. He said it made sense that the latter bothered me more. I think it was partly that I found, say, doing well in school (which I was good at) got me approval and praise. So I got used to getting that, then if I didn't do well at something in school, college, or, later, work, it was really hard for me. It ties into my perfectionism in some ways, too. And fear of rejection and abandonment. Etc.
So, I wonder what happens when you dismiss the label "authority figure" and just look at the thing itself. Because "authority figure" does have an element of deferring to someone or feeling pressure due to a hierarchy or power dynamic, and it just seems (I could be wrong, I'm not you) that there isn't an overlay or necessarily even a whiff of dominance/submission. It seems that you feel perfectly comfortable asking for what you want (thinking of your history of emailing here) even if it seems like he's not on board with that. And at times where you and he sees things differently, it seems to me that you don't adopt his perspective like a pelican swallowing a fish, but you do consider it and it seems like often the two of you end up somewhere in the middle, mostly just understanding each other better. Again, just my impression from reading your sessions, but I don't think power dynamics (which I *think* but don't know operate within an authority figure type relationship) are the thing.

But it does seem like people-pleasing is a thing for you (as you said

What it seems like to me is that this is alive in your sessions with your T. You may want to please him because then you get what you want out of the connection, approval, positive feedback, etc. Totally normal human needs. It seems like you also want him to please you, too, and maybe this is one of the ways those love languages play out, in the sense that we model for other people what we are wanting them to do for us. I do think that you've been able to say a lot of truth in the course of it, so it's not as if you are "people-pleasing" in the sense of just telling people what they want to hear. I see a lot of positivity in the way T reacts to you speaking what's true for you, even if he doesn't completely get it or agree.

T doesn't people-please back. He won't just tell you what you want to hear because he's not operating on that screenplay. And that's where the "tiger" is (buddhist reference to the monk who takes a "tiger" along on his mission because it agitates him in exactly the way he needs to work on).

So, if you frame the issue as "people pleasing" rather than seeing people as authority figures, does that change anything? Maybe it helps you see this dynamic in therapy that's troubling you more accurately, maybe it helps you explore whether this plays out in other relationships in your life.

And people pleasing is kind of like having some kind of addiction to food. You can't just stop eating like you can doing drugs. One side of people pleasing is a positive relationship skill because it facilitates connection between people. I recall loving to make my baby laugh by saying or doing silly things-- you could certainly say I wanted to please him, and to some extent I still do. I love making him laugh in that belly-authentic way. The laughing is just the manifestation that he is happy, but it's really about the connection. That it's a connection born within a positive emotion in the moment is just one way we connect and impact people. And least many of us want to be able to create connections with others, and I don't know how people pleasing isn't just part of this. The problem with people pleasing is when it compromises your autonomy or your expression of self, or where you self-censor out of fear that being true with the other person won't result in their pleasure. Where's the sweet spot of being people pleasing yet expressive and connected? At least I'm looking on finding it.
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Default Feb 27, 2019 at 04:35 PM
  #63
Warning: very long (and I even left some stuff out!)

T Monday. First session back after he was away for about 10 days (I'm used to seeing him twice a week). He got me right on time and said "Hello" as I walked past. Me: "Hi." I went back and sat down, feeling nervous, which was probably obvious. T: "I like your sweater." Me: "Thanks." T: "I don't think I've seen you wear that one before." Me: "I probably haven't worn it here." T, commenting on its stripes: "It kind of matches the pillow behind you. Though the stripes on the pillow are the wrong direction." I turned the pillow so the stripes were going the same way, saying, "There! Better?" T: "Yes!" That exchange helped break the ice and reestablish the connection.

T asked how I was doing. I started crying as I said it had been a really long week. I started going through what all had happened, starting with Thursday night (I'd see him earlier that day), when I'd made a Valentine's card for H with a bunch of heartfelt stuff in it, like about his being a good husband, father, etc., and left it for him when I was out at a concert that night. How he just texted me to thank me and did the emoji with heart eyes, but didn't say anything else. That of course I hadn't done it with the intention to get something back, but it might have been nice of him to at least replied with, "You're pretty great, too" or something. T agreed. Me: "But then I was thinking about it, and what is he going to say to me? He probably doesn't think I'm that great of a wife or mother, so..."

T: "When is the last time he said something like that to you, like about how he values you?" Me: "Uh...I don't know. He doesn't say stuff like that much. I mean, I guess I'm not that good at saying things to him, but I've tried to do better with that lately, thanking him for doing things, then with the card..." T: "Well, if you wanted, it's something you could bring up with him." Me: "Yeah, I guess." T: "This is the sort of thing that would be good to talk about in marriage counseling." Me: "Yeah...maybe we need to do that again, I mean not with ex-MC obviously." T: "I know you said H wanted to take a break from that." Me: "Well, it will be a year in April..." T: "It's been that long? OK."

I brought up Sunday (the previous one)...D was spending the night at my parents' (Monday was holiday). We went to dinner and H ended up bringing up my cheating as an example of something. T: "As an example? Of what?" Me: "Like why he didn't tell his friends about it, because they'd always associate it with me." T: "So an example of why not to tell people about something?" Me: "Yeah, well, it involved something with you, but anyway, let's not discuss that!...H never brings that up, and I just felt weird about it." Then I talked about what happened later that evening.

Possible trigger:


Me: "It was when I went downstairs that I contacted your backup T's. Part of me wanted to reach out to you, but it was only Sunday, and I felt I'd have to be really clear in what I wanted from you, but wasn't sure what that was." T: "OK." I said how I heard from the one Monday afternoon, but she was out that day and didn't have anything Tuesday, then didn't want to schedule me for Wednesday because it was supposed to snow, or Thursday, but could Friday, but at that point... How I didn't hear from the other one, so called her, then heard from her that evening--she was sick, so wouldn't be in the office Tuesday but said she could do a phone call, which I ended up taking her up on. T: "So my backup T's weren't particularly available--I'm sorry about that." Me: "Well, the one was sick, so even if I'd had something scheduled with her, it would have been an issue." T: "True. Still, I'm sorry." Me: "It's OK."

I said how the backup T, "R," had been helpful. That we covered quite a wide variety of topics in the hour. And how she just helped me feel lighter. That I felt pretty connected to her and might actually want to see her again sometime, not like long-term, just maybe for another session or two at some point. T said that would be OK, that it can help to get a different perspective. I said I remembered his saying that if I started seeing one of his backup T's, it would cause a problem. T: "Not a problem with you, but maybe a problem with me and R." Me: "Uh, OK..."

T: "I want to be really careful in how I word this. Because you got upset about this the last time." Me: "You mean about the problem with you and R?" T: "No. Where I said that I wanted you to see whoever would be most helpful for you. It felt like you wanted me to say you should keep working with me." Me: "Part of me kinda did, but part of also wants you to say I should be free to see whoever I want. That you just want what's best for me." T: "Well, I do. I want you to see the person who you think will help you the most. That's the best thing for all of us." Me: "OK, thanks. I mean, for now I think it's you. I just....I talked about you a little bit to R and I feel kind of bad about that." T: "You don't have to feel bad. You should talk about whatever you needed to." Me: "OK. I mean, as I said to her, it's not like I told her anything I hadn't already told you. Though it was kinda awkward at the end when she was like, 'Do you have a crush on [T's first name]' and I was like, 'Uh, no?'" T: "She can be pretty blunt." Me: "Who is that like?" (referencing him). T laughed.

I said how that session with R had helped, but then Wednesday was a snow day (D and H at home) and it seemed like H and I kept fighting, like how I'd accidentally knocked over a box with puzzle pieces and H was starting to curse at me and I was like, "Don't curse at me! I don't need this right now." And there were just other little fights over stupid things like me trying to help find a particular nightgown for C and H getting mad at me for that. And it was these little things that made me feel bad about myself that led me to email T Wed. night.

Me: "I was trying to figure out what to say to you and I figured that I really just wanted to know that you still existed." T: "It felt like you were asking for the bare minimum you could ask from me." Me: "Hm, I guess I kind of was. I kind of felt like...I'd intended not to email you. And I'd already had the session with R. It seems like that should have been enough..." T: "You seem to be beating yourself up over contacting me when I specifically said that you could." Me: "I know...and I guess you wouldn't have given me backup T info if it wasn't OK to use it."

T: "I'm just trying to figure out why you don't think it was OK to reach out for support, where that's coming from." Me: "I just kept thinking, 'It's only 10 days. I should be able to manage that, for God's sake.'" T: "But it was a long time for you." Me: "Yeah, I was thinking about it, and it was probably the longest I'd gone without any contact with you in a year, I mean, even the week from when I saw you to when I emailed you." T: "It probably was. It's OK to need support." Me: "And in your initial reply to my email, you said it was OK to contact you again if I wanted. But then in your reply to my reply, you talked about relying on my outside contacts, so...I got the message that I shouldn't." T: "You were reading too much into it. That isn't what I meant at all." Me: "I guess it felt like it. So when I was feeling really bad Friday night--like a few days ago--I didn't feel I should email you. I was looking up crisis lines and stuff." T seemed sad. Me: "Plus, because you won't say where you're going, I didn't even know what time zone you were in, like if you were in Tokyo or something, you might not have gotten back to me till the next night." T: "Hm, I hadn't thought of that, in saying that I'll write back in the mornings, I never said what 'morning' was...." Me: "Yeah."

T: "But with the contact, I worry that maybe I've pushed too much for you to strengthen your outside network, that you might feel that's all you're supposed to use. Like when I've praised you for your success in that, you feel that you're only supposed to rely on them, and not me. When that's not the case. I'm not expecting you to stand on your own right now, to be completely self-reliant." Me: "So not 'I am a rock, I am an island'? See, I managed to fit in song lyrics. But I appreciate your saying that. I do get the message at times that I'm just supposed to rely on outside people and not you." T: "No, and I'm sorry if I gave you that message." Me: "It's OK. I'm glad you clarified."

Somehow still had a few minutes left. He asked me what had made me feel so bad Friday night. I said maybe partly that I'd wished my former best friend (from high school/20s) a happy birthday, and she'd just replied back with "thanks." T: "So it kind of rubbed in where the relationship is?" Me: "Yeah." And I said it was also some more fights with H. How I told him multiple times it was a rough week for me, and I felt in a way like he could maybe go a little easier on me. But that it actually felt like he was tougher on me than anything. But maybe it wasn't fair to expect him to go easier. T: "I think it's completely fair." Me: "OK."

T: "Hm, I just had a thought. You're used to coming in here and getting support and validation. But you didn't have that last week. So maybe you were looking for that more than usual from H, and he was coming up short?" Me: "Huh. That makes a lot of sense actually. I also think of this as a place where I can sort of have a release. And I sort of had that with R, but it's not the same." T: "Yes, I imagine it's partly at this point that this environment is a safe space." Me: "Yes."

I said I knew we had to stop (we were at like 56 minutes). T confirmed Thursday, then said, "I'll be in all next week." Me: "Good!" He said he'd held my usual slots open, so we scheduled for those. Went over to pay. Me: "I hope you had a good trip." T: "I did have a good trip." Me: "Good." T stood up and shook my hand, saying, "See you Thursday." Me: "Yes." T: "I really hope this is a better week for you." Me: "Thanks."

I felt good about the session and also kinda wished I'd reached out a little more in the previous week.
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Default Feb 27, 2019 at 05:11 PM
  #64
Wow, how ballsy of the other T to outright ask about a crush on T. I am a bit shocked by your answer though.

I think it's fantastic you found other ways to cope and only emailed once, that's a huge step for you and something to be proud of. The eventual goal for therapy is for clients to "fly on their own" and so every small step toward that, is great. No one says you can't reach out if need be but it's awesome that you explored other things as well and hopefully you found some of it helpful.

I agree with needing MC again, it's a good idea I think if you can convince H to do it. It sounds like it went well, so I'm happy to hear it. I hope you give yourself some credit for the huge progress you made with contact while he was away, you deserve it! Well done.

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Default Feb 27, 2019 at 05:50 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by DP_2017 View Post
Wow, how ballsy of the other T to outright ask about a crush on T. I am a bit shocked by your answer though.

I think it's fantastic you found other ways to cope and only emailed once, that's a huge step for you and something to be proud of. The eventual goal for therapy is for clients to "fly on their own" and so every small step toward that, is great. No one says you can't reach out if need be but it's awesome that you explored other things as well and hopefully you found some of it helpful.

I agree with needing MC again, it's a good idea I think if you can convince H to do it. It sounds like it went well, so I'm happy to hear it. I hope you give yourself some credit for the huge progress you made with contact while he was away, you deserve it! Well done.

With the "crush" thing, a lot was in the way she said it, like a middle-schooler asking her friend if she had a crush on a teacher (that was the tone of voice she used), which I think made it more awkward. Like, "Aw, do you have a thing for [T]? How cute!" She did say it's common and normal if I did because of the relationship (I was waiting for her to say she had a thing for him, the way she'd said it...). I mentioned that I do think he's attractive (I've told my T this) and have some transference stuff at times (he knows that, too). A crush is just a totally different thing to me (I've certainly had those! See: 7th grade science teacher--no, not the high school one with all the transference stuff, this was more innocent).

Thanks for what you said about my ability to cope. I know I tend to be too hard on myself (and T agrees) on that and lots of other topics. And I'll think about the MC thing...maybe if I let him (H) pick one?
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Default Feb 28, 2019 at 02:14 PM
  #66
Just wanted to say Good Job LT! Hugs Kit

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Default Mar 02, 2019 at 04:44 PM
  #67
T Thursday. He got me 6 minutes late, which is unlike him. He apologized, said last client needed extra time, could he just give me 5 more minutes at the end? I said yes and joked that he was being ex-MC-like. Then I apologized, saying he's not ex-MC. T: "We must have some things in common." Me: "Well, you're both male..." T kinda laughed. (I could have gone with both being short, but was being nice!) Sat down, he asked how week had gone, I said better than last week. Ended up talking about sleep and sleep hygiene for quite a bit (I tend to sleep quite poorly), which wasn't my intent, but as I said, it was helpful.

Also some about how H had yelled at D a few mornings before, and it just seemed the past couple weeks he'd been yelling at her again, after being good about it since I'd talked to him a few months ago. T said how it can be easy to slip back into old patterns when not being vigilant and suggested I talk to him again. I mentioned stuff about D's sleep pattern being irregular, too, and how the mornings, getting her out the door can be really stressful. And that it can be frustrating because H won't do things like make his lunch till the last minute. T suggested using PECS cards for a schedule for the adults as well as D. It's interesting he used that specific example, because it's typically used for kids on the spectrum. It felt again like he was speaking from his own experience, as he explained ways to create the schedule, but I didn't say anything.

We were over halfway through. I said I'd had some insights since last session. One was about why I have trouble asking for help, like while he was away. I said I realized it applied to many parts of my life. Like I have pretty tight deadlines on most of my freelance work (2-5 days), so if something like a snow day happens or I'm not feeling well, can be a challenge to get things done. But I never want to ask for an extension, instead doing things like staying up late or getting up early to get it done. Yet the few times I've asked for an extension recently, it's been no problem at all. T gave me a "See? It was OK to ask" response to that. I said I figured it went back to childhood. We talked a bit about my perfectionism and that coming from my mom.

T: "This may seem like I'm simplifying things, but bear with me. It's like you feel you have to be the 'good girl.' Like you don't want to be a burden on anyone." Me: "Yes, I think that fits. I don't want to seem needy. But that keeps me from asking for help. Like I wish I'd asked for more help from you last week."

I said another insight involved my feeling bad for talking to other people about him, particularly his backup T. Me: "I think that comes from my mom. Because she'd say something like, 'Oh, what are you telling [ex-best friend] about me?'" T said it sounds like something else that came from her anxiety. How he hoped at one point I'd understand her more through that frame. That she was so afraid of someone getting a bad impression of her. I said how that made sense. He said he hoped I could understand that it wasn't necessarily something she did maliciously to me, that she probably couldn't even accept that she has anxiety. I agreed that she'd likely never admit it. And how ex-T had said that's probably why she couldn't seem to accept it in me--because to accept it in me would be to accept she had it as well.

Talked a little more about my talking about T to others, that I felt bad for saying negative things to his backup T. T: "I don't care. It doesn't bother me. You share what you need to share." I said I wondered if there was some element of my rebelling in there, in choosing to see first the consulting T then the backup T. Like, "Look, I'm independent." T said he could see that.

I said it made me think how when I was a teen, it's like I couldn't rebel the normal way. How it's normal to fight with your parents, but my mom would take it personally and get upset. And any small infraction was a huge deal. So it's like I had to suppress that. Which is likely why more of that, like smoking and drinking, happened in college and my 20s. T said that made sense. I said I guessed maybe I couldn't rebel as a kid too--"but maybe kids don't actually rebel so much as teens." T: "Uh, yeah they do! They're constantly testing their parents." Me: "Hm, yeah. Well, it was like I couldn't test mine the same way. So maybe that's why it's coming out more with you and ex-MC? Because I couldn't really do it then?" T: "That could be."

This led to him talking about the therapeutic relationship That he thought one way our relationship could help me is for me to see that we can have conflicts and work through them. That it wouldn't mean the end of the relationship. So then I could see that conflicts are OK and relationships can still be safe. I feel like he said more around that, but now I can't recall what he said that session vs. yesterday.

Confirmed for next week. I went over and paid. Shook hands as T wished me luck for the next day, when it was supposed to snow, saying he hoped would just be school delay, not closed. I said me too. T: "Take care." Me: "You too."

I was OK for a couple hours, even feeling good about what we talked about, while running some errands, then got home and totally broke down sobbing. All of this stuff just hit me, various insights. I made like three drafts of an email and finally sent it to him at like 7:30 a.m. May share that, debating. Ended up with an extra session yesterday, not because I was upset with him or anything, but because I had all these insights and wanted to talk about them sooner instead of later. Will report on that session later (was emotional and helpful).
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Default Mar 02, 2019 at 05:24 PM
  #68
We use those cards for my disabled sibling sometimes, it can be helpful. Worth a try

Sounds like an ok session. I would say, and this is just a suggestion, feel free to ignore it but since you already know so much of your issues come from childhood/mom and you sadly can't change any of it.... maybe try to work on things to help you going forward. Like to help you break these patterns and things. I only know of CBT and DBT off hand but there is probably other things. I know my childhood was crap but I try my best to focus on how to better my future. I'm unsure if any of the things I specifically do are CBT or DBT.

Still suggest trying to talk to H about MC, I really think it would benefit you guys. Even if you see a female of his choosing this time. Maybe one without outside contact or something that would help him feel more at ease about going.

Maybe you can keep a journal of your insights you have, and bring it in to your regular sessions or email them once in a while. That could be a good thing too try and work on too. None of us are perfect, so I'm not trying to pick on you or anything, we all are flawed and that' ok and I do support you... I'm just trying to suggest things that can help you going forward, since you have recently talked about wanting to depend less on T and things like that, which is great. I wish you all the best in your journey. Really and truly.

It's ok to be independent, seeing back up T was a great idea and it seemed to really help. Try not to be so hard on yourself about it. Imagine all the things other people have said to your T in his career, sometimes even to his face, I am sure he can handle it.... you do you.

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Default Mar 03, 2019 at 06:42 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight View Post
This led to him talking about the therapeutic relationship That he thought one way our relationship could help me is for me to see that we can have conflicts and work through them. That it wouldn't mean the end of the relationship. So then I could see that conflicts are OK and relationships can still be safe. I feel like he said more around that, but now I can't recall what he said that session vs. yesterday.
While I think he does a good job with a lot of things, I think he really shines in this issue. He sounds like he doesn't get his back up or is defensive about a lot of things other people might be. He has a nice balance of being very true to what he believes, willing to clarify when asked, and being okay with what you say and do.
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Default Mar 03, 2019 at 11:16 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by DP_2017 View Post
We use those cards for my disabled sibling sometimes, it can be helpful. Worth a try

Sounds like an ok session. I would say, and this is just a suggestion, feel free to ignore it but since you already know so much of your issues come from childhood/mom and you sadly can't change any of it.... maybe try to work on things to help you going forward. Like to help you break these patterns and things. I only know of CBT and DBT off hand but there is probably other things. I know my childhood was crap but I try my best to focus on how to better my future. I'm unsure if any of the things I specifically do are CBT or DBT.

Still suggest trying to talk to H about MC, I really think it would benefit you guys. Even if you see a female of his choosing this time. Maybe one without outside contact or something that would help him feel more at ease about going.

Maybe you can keep a journal of your insights you have, and bring it in to your regular sessions or email them once in a while. That could be a good thing too try and work on too. None of us are perfect, so I'm not trying to pick on you or anything, we all are flawed and that' ok and I do support you... I'm just trying to suggest things that can help you going forward, since you have recently talked about wanting to depend less on T and things like that, which is great. I wish you all the best in your journey. Really and truly.

It's ok to be independent, seeing back up T was a great idea and it seemed to really help. Try not to be so hard on yourself about it. Imagine all the things other people have said to your T in his career, sometimes even to his face, I am sure he can handle it.... you do you.

Thanks. We've talked about maybe trying some more CBT stuff, definitely more with mindfulness. I did actually try doing more journaling stuff in the past week--I'm trying to capture what I'm feeling in the moment so that I can then talk about it a few days later in session. I had done that earlier in the week, like some thoughts from Monday, and did not send him that--we just discussed in session.


And yeah, my T can definitely handle whatever criticism is thrown at him. I think I just feel bad at times if I don't seem to trust him. I also wonder if it could partly be protective for me, like I'm afraid of getting too close to him (due to ex-MC) so then I question him and say critical things to him and go see other people. I don't know...I think it's definitely good to question what's going on in therapy in general, and maybe that's something I didn't do enough of with ex-T and ex-MC.
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Default Mar 03, 2019 at 11:19 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Anne2.0 View Post
While I think he does a good job with a lot of things, I think he really shines in this issue. He sounds like he doesn't get his back up or is defensive about a lot of things other people might be. He has a nice balance of being very true to what he believes, willing to clarify when asked, and being okay with what you say and do.

I agree. Ex-MC, for example, tended to be very defensive if I criticized or questioned him. Which was a problem. Ex-T wasn't so good with it either. I think T is very secure in who he is as a person and as a T and is sort of "take it or leave it" about it. He will adapt some, and he has. But I also feel more free to say whatever I want to him.
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Default Mar 03, 2019 at 11:21 AM
  #72
That's great!

Baby T uses CBT, we've only done a little but it seems helpful so far. I like how he takes one step each session and has me dissect things, then I get homework and we go from there.

Journalling is good and I need to get back into it myself. I haven't much since T left. He used to always ask me "Is it still important NOW" because even though it was in the moment, days later it may not have been. It annoyed me at first but I started to see how it was important because we only spent time on the important things.....

Just keep reminding yourself current T is NOT Ex T or Ex MC... he's different and he keeps proving that. I feel like you are quite close with him already, it comes off that way, so maybe that's why it scares you, you wait for the other shoe to drop... and maybe it will? No one knows the future but that's why living for right now, with your T is the best. Just enjoy what you have with him today.

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Default Mar 03, 2019 at 11:22 AM
  #73
The email I sent early Friday morning:
"Dear Dr. T,
I've had some breakthroughs since session. You're telling me you're not going anywhere, we'll work through any conflicts. And I have so much trouble accepting that. It terrifies me. So I keep doubting or questioning you, debating leaving, etc. It's like I think, obviously there must be something wrong with you if you can accept me like that. I'm certainly not an easy client. I keep thinking, even though I'm paying you, why the hell would you want to deal with me? (Why would *anyone* want to deal with me?)

So I leave session and I go to the [local taphouse] and have a couple beers because your care and acceptance and validation feels good, but I don't feel worthy of it. I try to push away the feelings. I've realized that I often seem to drink more after what I'd consider a good session because I don't know how to process/handle those positive feelings. And because they often seem followed by negative ones. Like, why can't I just sit with and accept and feel the positive feelings? What keeps me from doing that? Why do they scare me so much?

So how do I become less afraid? How do I feel more worthy? Not just of your care (or that of others), but of my own self-care and self-value and self-love? I want to stop running away. I want to stop the pushing and pulling and testing and questioning (of you, of others, of myself) and just...be. I want to stop self-medicating away or otherwise running away from both good and bad feelings. But how do I do that when I'm so afraid? Help?

Charge accepted if you opt for longer reply (or if I'm at red).
--LT"
T, a few minutes later (apparently I sent it when he happened to be looking at email):
"Hi LT,
Goodness, that's quite a lot of deep thinking and some great insights! I really don't think it's something I could effectively reply to via email even with charging for the time. If you wanted to, I could see you this afternoon or we can start with this straight away at our meeting Monday. Trust is difficult, particularly when it's been something that's eluded a person for a long time (or forever). But there is most certainly hope and growth possible, and I'm confident you can make progress.

Thanks for sharing, and you're not in the red. I'd give you a yellow. Let me know if you'd like to meet (it would be at 1pm) or wait until Monday.
Sincerely,
T"
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Default Mar 03, 2019 at 11:26 AM
  #74
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That's great!

Baby T uses CBT, we've only done a little but it seems helpful so far. I like how he takes one step each session and has me dissect things, then I get homework and we go from there.

Journalling is good and I need to get back into it myself. I haven't much since T left. He used to always ask me "Is it still important NOW" because even though it was in the moment, days later it may not have been. It annoyed me at first but I started to see how it was important because we only spent time on the important things.....

Just keep reminding yourself current T is NOT Ex T or Ex MC... he's different and he keeps proving that. I feel like you are quite close with him already, it comes off that way, so maybe that's why it scares you, you wait for the other shoe to drop... and maybe it will? No one knows the future but that's why living for right now, with your T is the best. Just enjoy what you have with him today.

Funny, T actually used the phrase "waiting for the other shoe to drop" in regard to how I am with any relationship in session Friday (I didn't include that in writeup that I'm about to post).
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Default Mar 03, 2019 at 11:27 AM
  #75
Extra session Friday. T got me 5 minutes late again. He apologized and said he keeps doing this to me. I said was OK but was starting to get nervous. Sat down. I said how I was having my usual doubts about an extra session. But it was like I felt that I was on the precipice of something--not like a cliff, but more a breakthrough. Like I just needed to keep pushing through with talking about the insights I'd had the day before.

I started in with how I seem to have trouble dealing with the good feelings I get from sessions. How do I get better at processing and accepting those? That it had been an issue with ex-MC, too, where I'd leave a session where he was very validating, then just cry the whole way home in the car. At the time I'd thought maybe it was about transference, but now I wonder if it was more that I'm not used to those feelings from people, so I don't know what to do with them. And maybe there's also an element of, I had those feelings in the office, but now I'm back out in the world. How do I hold onto them?

T said that with relationships, it seems I tend to be focusing on on the future or past rather than the present. That I'm worried about whether the relationship will last or thinking of times in the past when they didn't last. I agreed with that. T: "I wanted to discuss this part in the beginning so it wasn't what you were leaving on." Me: "Uh OK." T: "The thing is, all relationships eventually end. Even with marriage, it's right in the vows, 'till death do us part.' Unless you just happen to die at the same time." (I managed to resist the urge to quote the Smiths' "There Is a Light that Never Goes Out" there.) Me: "Yeah." T: "Your parents will eventually die. Friendships don't last forever. But when they end, you'll get through that."

I gave example of thinking before that I wouldn't get through losing ex-MC. T: "That's a perfect example." Me: "Before the rupture, I used to start crying just at the thought of eventually separating from him, even by choice. I couldn't bear the thought of it. But then I did get through it, even though it hurt." T: "Yes you did. I do feel like you have trouble working through the grieving process. Because ideally, you would get to a point where you could hold onto more of the good memories of someone. Where you seem to have trouble doing that." I brought up my grandmother (who passed 5 years ago). That she'd been so vibrant, yet the last couple years, she was bed-bound. And when she shows up in my dreams now, she's generally more in that state, rather than thinking of her as she was. T said how for most of my life, she wasn't stuck in a bed. So it would make sense for, say, 90% of my thoughts to be about that time, the positive memories, just 10% about the end.

I said I do think of her whenever the Golden Girls come up, because we used to watch it together. T smiled at that. I asked if he thought writing down some of the memories might help. T: "Maybe? I was going to suggest something with pictures, maybe scanning some old photos, making a Snapfish book. You could add a few stories in there." He said I could go over them with D, that she'd probably like that. I said maybe I'd try that.

T went back to the relationships ending. T: "Just because relationships will all end, it doesn't make them not worth having. A good example is dogs. People get dogs knowing that the dog will most likely die before them, that they'll have to deal with that loss. But it's still worth it to them, to have a dog in their life." I said I hadn't had a dog (well, for 2 days!) but guinea pigs. T: "That's an ever better example, because they have shorter life spans." Me: "Yeah."

T: "And I want you to realize that if something happens to me, you'll be OK. Or if you were to decide to leave, say, if I'm an asshole." Me: "Do you have plans for that? Do you have a day circled on the calendar when you're going to be an asshole?" T kinda laughed: "No." Me: "Though I could see that happening with you..." T: "How's that hole you're digging?" Me: "I'm just going to slip back into the bushes now..." T: "But if that were to happen, I'd hope you could still hold onto and value the work we did together." Me: "yeah, that's something I'm still trying to work on with ex-MC."

Back to the relationship thing, he said how being in the moment with people could help me. I said that's something I had to work on, because, for example, I was meeting a new friend for the first time recently, and I spent much of the time worrying I'd mess up and they wouldn't want to hang out again. But they still did. T: "I get the sense that making friends comes easily to you." Me: "I guess?"

T: "I think something else you can do is accept that you have anxiety and that it has both positive and negative effects on you." Me: "There's a positive? I mean, I guess I might avoid dangerous situations..." T: "I think it makes you a good friend. Because you're perceptive and attentive. You want to make a good impression and have the other person like you. While many people don't think about those things." Me: "Hm, I hadn't thought of it that way. I guess being anxious also makes me a good copy editor." T: "Exactly, it helps you with work, too."

We talked about how mindfulness can help me, doing some meditation. I said how I want to go back to doing more yoga, but the thing with that is, I can feel very mindful and at peace in the class, but then when I leave, it's like that feeling goes away. The same with going for a walk outside, when I come back inside, the mindfulness is gone. T: "One way to do that is to try to recreate the setting of the yoga class, say, at home. Wear the same clothes, do similar things. Then you gradually take away different elements until you can just go back to that feeling on your own. Like if you're out with a friend, maybe you can just say, 'I need a minute,' then take a few seconds to breathe deeply (he demonstrated) and calm yourself." He said it's a technique they use with athletes, so that they can be in the middle of a game, and they find a few seconds where they can pause and calm themselves.

I realized we only had maybe 10 minutes left, and I started crying again. I sort of rambled, said I knew I wasn't making any sense and the sobbing likely wasn't helping. He said was OK. Me: "I feel like lately I've sort of had one foot out the door in here. I'm not sure if you sensed that, too." T: "I do have that sense." Me: "Like questioning things, seeing the consulting T, the backup T. And I wonder if in some ways that's me being afraid, like afraid to really face myself and change. The term I keep thinking of is 'I want to be all in.' I know that's a gambling term, but it's like I need that. I feel I should just sort of commit to doing this with you and really do it, instead of running."

T: "Maybe instead you should just accept that you're feeling ambivalent about things right now." Me: "Hm, OK." T: "For me, I have to conduct therapy with the assumption that a client is going to stay and proceed like that. If I keep thinking they'll leave, then maybe I wouldn't try as hard or something. So I just assume they'll keep coming back. But for you, it might help you to accept that you're unsure right now, and that's OK." Me: "OK. I guess 'acceptance' is kind of a theme today." T: "Yes."

I started sobbing again, saying, "I just want to get better." T gave me a caring look. Me: "It's like I'm tired of feeling this way. I feel like I'm ready to change. Instead of starting and then slipping back." T: "Change what?" Me: "Just...everything. Taking better care of myself, the drinking thing. Just doing the work to really get better, to be able to handle life better, to just deal with my issues." I said I was thinking of this song by the band Typhoon. Me: "One of the lyrics is, 'Oh what am I waiting for? A spell to be cast or for it to be broken.' And in a way I feel like that, what am I waiting for?" T: "OK. What kind of band is that, thrash metal?" Me (joking): "Yes." Me: "And another line is, 'When am I gonna feel better? I have been patient for a long time now.' I said it then switched to 'I've been a patient for a long time now,' mainly referring to the singer's Lyme disease as a kid. T: "That's a nice play on the phrase." Me: "Yeah. Part of me wanted to play the song for you, but I feel weird doing that right now."

T: "I'm sorry that you've had so much therapy and are still struggling so much." I thanked him. I said maybe it just wasn't the right therapist before? T: "Or maybe you just weren't ready then." Me: "Yeah. I feel like I'm ready now." T: "Good." I said I knew we had to stop. And that I probably was going to keep my Monday session. T: "Well, you know where to find me if you change your mind."

Threw my giant pile of tissues into the trash, then paid. T shook my hand, saying, "Have a good weekend, OK? Doctor's orders!" I said I'd do my best.
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Default Mar 03, 2019 at 11:29 AM
  #76
LT

I can relate SOOOOO much to that, especially AFTER T has left, I am 100% doubting the care ever existed and it's ruining me. I allowed myself to get close to him after expressing similar views and having our rupture, we were the closest ever, after the rupture....I was confident and content with us, I accepted his care and I figured, whatever he sees about me, it's good for both of us, I need to not question it.... but then he left and blah.

Not to try and scare you, you likely wont experience what I did. It's not common T's abandon clients, esp for a whole new career, but ya life happens and no one knows the future but thats why if you can get to a point where you just accept it, it will be great. Even if you realize it's only temporary... but it doesn't mean it isn't real and it doesn't mean that everyone else's care is only temporary. Good luck to you! We both have sessions tomorrow

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Default Mar 03, 2019 at 11:38 AM
  #77
Ok I just read your write up, a few extra things

One, yes make a photo book, the single most healing thing I did with losing my dog was make those. It was hard and emotional but it's so so so wonderful to have. I recommend collage.com instead though, much better prices and you can make it way more your own rather than set themes

Second.. I'm SO glad he brought up and was honest with you about all relationships end, they do. It's **** but they do. It's probably why at a young age, I started keeping distance with people. Anyway....he is right, there is value in it, even though I am struggling with losing my T, sometimes I think, where would i be without him? I'd probably be dead, because the first thing I always talked about doing with my dog died, was dying with him.

Lastly, I'll agree with him on the dogs. Getting dogs is not for everyone but for some, it's everything. My dog saved my life. He gave me a purpose. Every single day I spent with him, I consider blessed. Yes I knew he would die but I spent every day doing the most with him that I could, loving him with my all.... and even though I miss him every day, that is one relationship I don't regret at all. How amazing it was to spend 15 years with that incriedble soul, he taught so much about life and love. I'd probably never have made my 21st birthday without him. I wanted to die that bad before I got him. He was my world. He changed my world.

Now I have my other dog, I know he's getting close, he's almost 16. I am aware of it but T was able to get me to learn to focus on the here and now with them and not fret about the death, as I was when I first saw him.... so this yea instead of "oh dang, he's 16, he isn't gonna last much longer" I am like 'Wow, our first pet to have a 16th birthday! I've done a great job with him"

I hope you can get to a place where you are happy and content, your really do deserve it

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Default Mar 03, 2019 at 05:59 PM
  #78
Thanks for the comments, DP. I just feel so vulnerable right now, because I was so open and raw in Friday's session. This feels like such a silly thing, but on Friday afternoon, I emailed T a link to the song I was referencing, saying "In case you're curious." He typically says something within 24 hours, though less so on weekends if not urgent. So rationally, I'm saying to myself "Whatever, it was just a throwaway email, I shouldn't worry about it at all." But there's also the super vulnerable part. And I realize that the email wasn't just about "here's this song," but maybe more of a checking in after an intense session. But I also didn't say that, so I'm sure he's taking it at face value and will maybe just say something in session or possibly tomorrow morning? (he did that once before with a nonurgent Sunday email)

Assuming we have session, as we're getting rain, but part of our county is getting snow, and I'm worried school could be closed. And he normally comes in when it is (despite having a school-aged son), but recently he had to reschedule me to a different time because he didn't realize his son had a half-day. And Friday's session was partly contingent on schools staying with a delay rather than closing. So maybe whatever plan he had in place that let him always come in even if schools were closed, unless it was a blizzard, isn't there anymore? (whether his wife, a neighbor, family member, etc.). So if schools close, unsure if we'd necessarily have session. (I hate the not knowing, also regarding my D--my H will work from home, so it's not a problem on my end, but I just want my D to know what's going on.) And I know rationally/intellectually that everything is fine. But my more emotional/young part just wants to reconnect with him.
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Default Mar 03, 2019 at 06:03 PM
  #79
He also isn't big into music from what you said, so it probably isn't a priority to him. I honestly wouldn't even bring it up, it would feel kinda pressure like to him possibly. Just let him say something if he has gotten around to it, if no, then that's ok. Share the lyrics out loud or whatever.

And part of therapy is being vulernable so while it's a **** feeling, it's good when you feel it, it means something is working.

People share songs with people all the time, so for most people it's not gonna be a big deal. I probably wouldn't even have gotten around to it myself yet, mostly because I'm super lazy about music LOL....

I'm sure he will be there, he seems to go often, and if no, there's always Tuesday. Just breathe.

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Default Mar 03, 2019 at 06:59 PM
  #80
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He also isn't big into music from what you said, so it probably isn't a priority to him. I honestly wouldn't even bring it up, it would feel kinda pressure like to him possibly. Just let him say something if he has gotten around to it, if no, then that's ok. Share the lyrics out loud or whatever.

And part of therapy is being vulernable so while it's a **** feeling, it's good when you feel it, it means something is working.

People share songs with people all the time, so for most people it's not gonna be a big deal. I probably wouldn't even have gotten around to it myself yet, mostly because I'm super lazy about music LOL....

I'm sure he will be there, he seems to go often, and if no, there's always Tuesday. Just breathe.

Oh I know. I wasn't expecting some big response from him. Just "Thanks" would have honestly sufficed. I wasn't expecting him to give me some analysis of the song meaning. I guess maybe it also felt sort of exposing to share the song with him? Plus we had a brief discussion about how once I shared a song over email with ex-MC and he just never acknowledged it at all. And T was like, "He never even said anything about it?" So that makes me think he'd acknowledge it in some way. Trying my best to breathe, I know if tomorrow doesn't work out, there will be another day. Just figure that Thursday will be mainly about my D's annual IEP (Individualized Education Plan) meeting that's happening Friday. So I'd rather process this stuff in a separate session.
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