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Default May 19, 2019 at 12:37 PM
  #401
And glad there are so many National fans on here
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Default May 19, 2019 at 12:52 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight View Post
And glad there are so many National fans on here
Tweet Trump! Maybe he will ask them to perform at his 4th of July or thereabouts celebration and make them even better known, either for performing or not They would be the PERFECT band! I mean, such a patriotic name!

Eta - for a minute there, you had me worried Vanilla Ice died. Put him in the lineup too.

Last edited by unaluna; May 19, 2019 at 01:05 PM..
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Default May 19, 2019 at 12:56 PM
  #403
Well, considering one of the songs on their last album was anti-Trump, not sure if he'd have them! Actually, he likely wouldn't care... Though Obama used one of their songs, "Fake Empire," in some of his campaigning. So perhaps if he knew that...
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Default May 19, 2019 at 01:07 PM
  #404
Well we dont want a night of all Kid Rock and Ted Nugent
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Default May 19, 2019 at 03:03 PM
  #405
I thought Ted Nugent was dead or the name of a band that was now dead .

okay I don't know who or what ted nugent is.

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Default May 19, 2019 at 04:36 PM
  #406
Thats okay i get him mixed up with Todd Rundgren. The names are similar, right?
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Default May 20, 2019 at 01:51 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight View Post
T looked at the lyrics and brought up the "It takes an ocean not to break" line. T: "What it makes me think of is...if you're struggling emotionally, it can take a lot of effort, like an ocean of effort, to keep it together.
Possible trigger:
.
Me: "Yes, exactly."
This is kind of what I was expressing to T on Saturday. That it takes a lot of effort to not SH. To not fall apart. She acknowledged that I'm very high functioning despite everything and I said that it can be exhausting, draining. We talked about that in relation to SH
Possible trigger:
. I'm not familiar with this band or song but that line does seem like it fits with me as well. Thanks for sharing LT. HUGS Kit

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Default May 22, 2019 at 12:04 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by SlumberKitty View Post
This is kind of what I was expressing to T on Saturday. That it takes a lot of effort to not SH. To not fall apart. She acknowledged that I'm very high functioning despite everything and I said that it can be exhausting, draining. We talked about that in relation to SH
Possible trigger:
. I'm not familiar with this band or song but that line does seem like it fits with me as well. Thanks for sharing LT. HUGS Kit

It feels weird to say I'm glad you relate...because obviously it's something that sucks to deal with. But I think you know what I'm trying to get at. I'm similar in that I'm generally high-functioning, and am used to sort of putting on a front that I'm OK to many people. To the point that I think even my T right now thinks I'm doing better than I am... But keeping up that sort of front and functioning can be exhausting...
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Default May 22, 2019 at 12:05 PM
  #409
T Monday. Went back and sat down. I said I was nearly late because of construction on one road. He was puzzled as to why I'd taken that road, so we ended up in a 5-minute discussion of various routes to his office, with each of us saying we'd try the others' route (we live in similar directions from his office). Then T asked, "So how are you doing?" Me: "Pretty good...I think?" T: "You think?" Me: "Yeah, was a pretty good weekend." I shared some details about how it had gone.

Me: "I'm not sure what to talk about today." I started to continue, then T started to say something. Me: "Go ahead." T: "No, I interrupted you." Me: "It's OK. I thought you were going to have a suggestion on what to talk about." T: "No, something else." Me: "OK, well, I was wondering if we should discuss more from my teen years, since I think that's where the desire to play that song came from. Oh, did you end up figuring out what song it reminded you of?"

T said he got an answer, but not a simple one. He said he'd check what they said, and proceeded to look at his phone a couple minutes, while I watched a blue and black butterfly out the window. He found it and said the person told him the National song sounded like "a mashup of U2, Springsteen, Snow Patrol, and Modest Mouse." I said I liked most of those and Modest Mouse is one of the bands I saw in the past year. He said it didn't help him figure out the actual song. I said the National had just released a new album Friday, and I really liked it so far. He seemed quite happy for me.

Me: "So what were you going to say before?" T: "I'm concerned you'll take this as a rejection, but it's not intended that way." Me: "Uh, OK..." T: "I was just thinking that when people say they not sure what to talk about, it's often a sign they're ready to reduce sessions." I started crying. T: "This is why I was unsure of saying it...and I'm not saying you should reduce sessions." Me: "I know, I'm sorry. I know I seem to be doing better lately." T: "Yes, you have been." Me: "I guess I just don't feel I'm that far removed from not being OK." T: "Really?" Me: "Yeah, there was that stuff from a month ago..." (I should have been more specific.) T: "OK." Me: "I just feel I want more time of doing well under my belt before I try reducing. I mean, maybe like if you go on vacation, I wouldn't see a backup. Or something. Maybe in a month or so if I'm still doing OK, I could try once a week." T: "It's no rush. When you're ready." Me: "OK."

We still had 25 minutes left. I said maybe we should talk about more teenaged stuff. I ended up talking a bit about my dating history in high school and college. Which led to me talking briefly about the journalism teacher who we'd discussed before (he treated me like I was special and I developed feelings for him). T asked what I felt I was looking for from him. I said it was partly acceptance, understanding, his believing in me. Going to trigger this next whole section.
Possible trigger:

T asked what I felt I was looking for from these people. I said I wasn't sure. That I'd need to think on it before. Because they're all men, it suggests something I missed from my father. That I knew some of it was wanting acceptance and understanding. T agreed. I said maybe also for them to believe in me, like the teacher had made me editor-in-chief of the school newspaper and had chosen me to win a local essay contest. For the online people, I wasn't sure.

Talked about what I'm looking for from people now. How it seems that now I look for acceptance and understanding more from equals, like friends, rather than older male authority figures. We both agreed on that. And of course this was right at the end of the session when I was like, "But then there's ex-MC." (And I wanted to be like "and you" to T, but again, it was the end of session.) I teared up a bit. I said I'd have to think more on what I was looking for from them.

I said I knew we had to stop. T confirmed Thursday. T asked if I wanted to do Tues/Thurs. or Tues/Friday next week. Me: "I guess you're not coming in on Memorial Day?" T: "I haven't decided yet." Went with Tues/Friday. As I went over to pay, he said that with his work, it's much like me (I'm a freelance editor), that he'll still have the same amount of work in one week, even with a day off. So he had to see what his schedule looked like--he wouldn't want to work 9 hours Sunday and Tuesday in order to take off Monday. That if it was that, he'd prefer three 6-hour days. It felt slightly odd hearing him explain those details of his decision-making process--maybe because it rubbed in the fact that I'm his job? I don't know...I did tell him if he decides to come in Monday, to let me know, and he said he would.

Shook hands as T said, "Have a good week!" Me: "You too." I did the usual glancing back thing as I was walking out the door, but he didn't look up. I quietly said "bye" and left.
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Default May 22, 2019 at 06:39 PM
  #410
That’s interesting that your T said that if you don’t know what to talk about that means you might need less frequent sessions. Mine has said the opposite. But then again, we may have different issues. I have more difficulty opening up and I think his thought was that if I came more frequently it would be easier for me. You seem to be doing well with your T and I think he’s said before that it’ll be your decision about when to reduce sessions or stop.
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Default May 22, 2019 at 07:58 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by Lrad123 View Post
That’s interesting that your T said that if you don’t know what to talk about that means you might need less frequent sessions. Mine has said the opposite. But then again, we may have different issues. I have more difficulty opening up and I think his thought was that if I came more frequently it would be easier for me. You seem to be doing well with your T and I think he’s said before that it’ll be your decision about when to reduce sessions or stop.

Thanks for the comment. It's interesting that your T has said the opposite!

I didn't explain this at the time, but when I said "I'm not sure what to talk about," it wasn't that I didn't have things to talk about--I just wasn't sure what direction to go in. It wasn't like, "Well, I have nothing to discuss!" Perhaps I'll clarify that tomorrow... I did end up having an email exchange with him, partly regarding that comment, and he clarified that he wants me to determine the session frequency and he was sorry if his comment bothered me. That he just meant that such a comment can be a sign it may be time to reduce sessions. And he said he should have listened to the voice in his head that said "LT will see this as a rejection." I want to be like, "Yes, listen to that voice!" (There have been other times that's happened, too, where he's been worried about how I'll take something but says it anyway. And I take it the way he was worried about.)
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Default May 25, 2019 at 07:23 PM
  #412
T Thursday. Intense session. Went back and sat down. Me: "So I know I sent you the email, and I appreciate your response. I don't feel like we need to spend much time talking about the reducing sessions thing. Because I understand you're not pushing me to do that." T: "I think this is another case where you may have misheard me. Or what I had intended to say didn't come out the way I meant it, either way." Me: "Well, no matter how you said it, I probably would have been triggered by it." T: "Yes, I was concerned how you'd react to it. I guess I should know that no matter how I preface it, it will still affect you." Me: "Yeah."

Me: "So I wanted to talk about the other stuff I mentioned in the email. Some of this ties into something you said Monday. Where you said that it seemed like now I'm looking for acceptance and understanding more from equals. And I agreed." T: "Yes, I think you are." Me: "But then right at the end of session--because I'm good at that--I mentioned ex-MC. And I didn't know how he tied into all that. So...I ended up pretty emotional Monday night." T: "I'm sorry." Me: "Yeah, I know I didn't really explain that in the email. But I was thinking how maybe I haven't really made the progress that you were saying. Yeah, I am looking for stuff from friends, but...I was still looking for that from ex-MC. And, uh, you, I guess." (I couldn't look at him as I said that last part.)

T: "What do you think is behind that?" Me: "I don't know...I'm clearly still looking for something. I do think I realized something the other night though." T: "What's that?" Me: "I think...it's not so much about how much older the man is than me...but more that they're around the age that my dad was when I was a teenager." T: "That's interesting. So how old for your dad?" I said late teens put him in late 40s. Me: "Which was around...both high school teachers ages. And the online guy was 40. And ex-MC was around that age when I started seeing him, maybe a little older. And I think you're around that age. Because when I first started seeing you, you said you're about 5 years younger than ex-MC. And I know he's 12 years older, because we asked him once, and at the time he said 50. So if you're 5 years younger than him...that makes you 7 years older than me." T: "That's some complicated math! When were you born?" Me: "1977. So you're...late 40s?" T: "You're not getting me to share my age." Me: "OK." (I do actually know his age, from past googling--including a fairly public thing--but I didn't tell him that.)

I said I assumed that meant it was about my dad. I said I felt weird at the time with the feelings for the journalism teacher because he had a mustache like my dad did. That when I was younger, my dad had a mustache/goatee combo. T: "I thought that was a 90s thing." Me: "Well, this was bushier. Late 70s/early 80s. A guy I dated saw a pic and said he looked like Welcome Back, Kotter." Which led to brief discussion of that show (I've never seen it) and T quoting something from it. (Incidentally, my T has a full beard, though he shapes it rather oddly.) Me: "And I guess ex-MC and my dad both have dark hair and eyes..." T: "So do a lot of people." Me: "True, like me...I guess you have dark hair and light eyes. And I've dated a lot of redheads, too." (My H is one.)

T: "It doesn't necessarily have to be about your dad." Me: "Freud would say it had to be." T: "True! But it could just be... partly about the person you first had strong romantic feelings for, like an early crush. You mentioned that one middle school teacher." Me: "Hm, true...he was around 40." T: "So it could be you're drawn to people who fit that. That it imprinted in your brain. Not like a fetish so much, but just who you're naturally drawn to." Me: "Hm, that makes sense." T said it would be interesting now that I'm close to the age of the guys I'm drawn to paternally--would it still happen when I'm 60? I said that was a good question.

Me: "So, I feel like I need to talk about the sort of fantasies that are tied into this. Because I think there's something therapeutically relevant there. But...the ones that involve you...I want to make it clear that it's not about YOU specifically, but about what you represent to me." T: "OK." Me: "With the older males authority figures I'm drawn to...it's like this part of me wanted, say, ex-MC or ex-teacher or...I guess you...to be in love with me. Or unable to resist me sexually." T: "Or just to love you?" Me: "Yes." T: "It seems like it all comes down to a desire to just feel wanted." Me: "Yeah...that really seems like what it is. Like whatever the reason, if sexually or romantically or something else...Yeah...to be wanted."

Me: "I guess there's another sort of fantasy thing regarding you I want to share because I think it has a lot of meaning. But I'm sort of afraid to. It's not sexual." T: "OK." Me: "Uh...so the other day shortly before session I was having this pain in my lower right side." T: "Front or back?" Me: "Front. So my mind went to appendicitis---it ended up being pulled muscle or something. But I was thinking...um..." T: "You seem really nervous about sharing this." Me: "I am. I just don't want it to weird you out. Uh...so...I guess I was thinking that if I came into session and, say, collapsed, like I was sick...that I just had this image of you carrying me to the hospital" (It's a block away.) T: "Like throwing you over my shoulder?" Me: "Yeah...or just driving me." T: "Dragging you by your ankle?" Me: "Maybe not so much that..." T: "I'd call 911." Me: "I know, this is just...I mean...obviously it's some sort of rescue fantasy." T: "You want to be taken care of." Me: "Yeah. Like a kid or something. I hope that wasn't too weird"

T (in a particularly gentle voice): "We can't help what we think or fantasize about. We have no control over that. Only what we do with it." Me: "I just keep thinking how you'd talked about that client who came onto you in session, how that was an issue for you. But that wasn't just her sharing her thoughts I guess." T: "No, she had a specific goal that she was going for there with me." Me: "And I wouldn't do that." T: "I know."

T looked at the clock. T: "We have about 5-10 minutes left. I want to make sure you're OK when you leave. But I'm not sure how to do that." Me: "I'm not sure either." We proceeded to talk for another 15 minutes.

I said how I thought I tried to meet certain needs through dating, but couldn't. T said that made sense, because I was looking for what an infant wants from their parents. T said he had an analogy he often used, but to bear in mind he often works with kids and teens. Me: "OK." T: "So think of one of the boards you build Lego structures on." Me: "OK." T: "Ideally, when you're young, you form a solid foundation on it." Me: "So like lots of the little bumps to build on?" T: "Yes." Me: "So maybe mine, like it has fewer bumps that most people's?" T: "That could be. But as you make connections early in life, you build a solid foundation of blocks on the board, a town. Where with you, with anxious attachment, it's like you don't have that solid foundation. Connections you make now, the buildings feel really unstable, like they could topple over at any minute." Me: "Yeah...that's a good comparison."

T: "And with ex-MC...it was like just a bunch of little shacks there, and he was building a church, so it was a really major structure." Me: "Yeah...hm..." T said that ideally, we hold past connections and attachments with us. T: "Even if someone dies, if we had a connection to them, that's still there as part of the foundation." Me: "While I have trouble with that." T: "Yes." He talked for another few minutes on the topic, even though we were basically at time. Confirmed next week's schedule.

Went over to pay. Me: "So I think I generally feel OK about what we talked about." T: "Good." Me: "But can I just confirm that you're not weirded or creeped out from what I said?" T: "I don't feel right now that anything you said creeped me out." Me: "OK, good." T: "Remember you can always contact me." Me: "But it's a holiday weekend, I wouldn't want to bother you." T: "I'm working Sunday, so it's not a big deal at all. You know my policy." Me: "OK, thanks." Shook hands as he said, "Have a good weekend." Me: "You too."
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Default May 26, 2019 at 07:20 AM
  #413
So, I feel really good about the session. But T also seems to have done a complete 180 on stuff like transference and my attachment to him since the whole stone debacle nearly a year ago. So maybe it's a little hard for me to completely trust it, like I'm just waiting for him to freak out again. I wonder if it's a case where he may have read up on transference more or consulted about it? Or just that he's known me long enough now to realize I'm neither going to show up at his house nor strip off my clothes in the office and come onto him? Or some combination of the above?

And that thing he said about not having control over our feelings or fantasies (and the way he said it) is exactly something ex-MC would say, not like something T would typically say, but it felt like he really meant it. I wish I could just fully trust this...
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Default May 26, 2019 at 01:02 PM
  #414
What a brave session. The lego analogy seems apt. I got lost in thought for a while with the somewhat profound word choice that Ex MC was building a church. It seems like your T has done some stretching and going into being your T. This seems like a meaningful , wonderful session.

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Default Jun 07, 2019 at 02:01 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by SalingerEsme View Post
What a brave session. The lego analogy seems apt. I got lost in thought for a while with the somewhat profound word choice that Ex MC was building a church. It seems like your T has done some stretching and going into being your T. This seems like a meaningful , wonderful session.

I thought the church thing was profound as well. He definitely has done some stretching lately. It kind of scares me at times, whether the change is permanent. Which I ended up bringing up in yesterday's session (see next post!)
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Default Jun 07, 2019 at 02:09 PM
  #416
T yesterday (saw him Monday, too, but that session was pretty much entirely about my marriage, so not writing that up). There was something I wanted to bring up with him, but I was anxious about it, so I just chatted about how the past few days had gone, which had included having a nice lunch with a friend and watching the (previous week's) Project Runway with H (as part of trying to spend more time with him). Which led T to ask if I watched much reality TV, and I said mostly competition stuff, like Top Chef and Amazing Race, not like "Real Housewives" or Kardashians or stuff like that. T: "This is a safe place, you can admit things here." Me: "OK, occasionally, H and I watch the Bachelor/Bachelorette." T (joking): "There, don't you feel better now sharing that!" Me: "I guess..." T: "Are we just going to talk about TV and movies the whole time?" Me: "No, sorry about that." T: "Why are you apologizing? I was contributing just as much to it." Me: "True!"

I mentioned the comment I'd made at the end of last session about maybe talking about reducing sessions soon--I'd then emailed him to say "never mind." Me: "I think I partly made that comment to see what it felt like when I said it." T: "And it didn't feel right?" Me: "Felt OK in that moment, but then I got all weepy later." Talked a bit more about that, which led him to share the three 1-week vacations he's taking this summer. So those could be tests of sorts to see how I do. T: "You know, reducing your sessions--that's not the sole indicator of your making progress. Because you are making progress. But maybe twice a week is part of why?" Me: "Yeah, I wondered that, like maybe I'm doing better in part because of that." T said he had a client who's doing great but still seems him weekly because they think therapy helps them stay that way. T said how much mental health can affect the rest of your life, so he thinks therapy is important. Me: "Of course you might be a bit biased about that." T: "Just a tiny bit."

I said there was something I wanted to bring up but was nervous to do so. T: "It's your hour." Me: "OK, so...I guess, some of this is probably about ex-MC acting differently toward me after I talked about certain transference things with him. Like he'd say he was fine with me at the time, then be weird the next session. So...I think I'm really hypervigilant about that sort of thing." T: "OK." Me: "And I guess...in the time I've talked more to you about my transference the past few weeks...it's like the email replies you've given me since then have been really short. I mean, it might just be that you were really busy." T: "I may have been on my phone." Me: "Yeah, for the one you said that , and I totally understand. I think I just worry that it's you backing away, like" [I made the x sign with my fingers, as in "get away"]. T: "I'm certainly not doing that intentionally."

Me: "Or I guess I wondered if you were trying to get me to email less by doing that. Like make your replies less satisfying, so I'd be less inclined to email you." T: "I don't think I'm smart enough to do something like that. It seems rather devious." Me: "You'd be smart enough, but..." T: "Right but I don't see how it would help if I did that." Me: "Yeah, I'd want you to talk about it. I guess I just sort of worry you were seeing my emails and were like, 'Ugh, not LT again.'" T: "I can assure you I've never thought that." Me: "OK, good." T: "And remember, if it did bother me, what would happen?" Me: "We'd talk about it?" T: "You've got it."

Me: "The thing is...I was talking to a friend about it, and your replies recently *did* give me what I needed. I mean, I said I was worried about your reaction to something, and you reassured me." T: "Yes, I think I said 'all is well.'" Me: "Yes. And it's like...what else was I looking for exactly? It doesn't seem fair to say you didn't give me what I wanted...when I can't even say what it is that I wanted, because maybe I don't know. And I think that's an issue for me with other people, too, that I feel they haven't given me enough, but how can I tell them that if I don't even know what exactly I'm looking for from them?" Talked briefly about that.

Me (crying): "I guess sometimes I just worry that I'm like a bottomless pit of needs." T: "Is it that you think that about yourself or you think I or other people think that?" Me: "I guess both?" T: "I don't think that." Me: "OK, good. I feel like most people in my life probably don't think that because I don't express all my needs to them. With you, I'm more likely to express the needs because...like, you know what's in my head."

T: "With your emails...I can tell that what you write me is just the tip of the iceberg." Me: "Yeah, I try to keep it as short and direct as I can." T: "Which makes it more likely you'll get the answer you want." Me: "Yeah." T: "What I meant by the tip of the iceberg is...when I see what you've written me, I know there's a lot more behind that. Time you spent thinking about it, maybe an email draft you didn't spend, time talking to friends, trying to not email me." Me: "Yes, maybe listening to music...a couple beers." T: "When I'm replying, I'm trying to be cognizant of that and of your distress. It seems particularly intense if it's something about the relationship." Me: "Yeah." T: "And it's like I feel...'pity' isn't the right word, that's too strong. But I'm sorry that you're in distress and want to say what I can to relieve that in the moment." Me: "Thanks for explaining that."

T: "Also without really taking therapy into email and turning it into a back and forth exchange." Me: "I get that." T: "And I'm trying to be mindful of length so that I won't have to charge you for emails. Because I know that stresses you out. So I don't want you to have to worry about that. I'm trying to keep you in the green." Me: "I appreciate that."

Me: "Thanks for explaining all that. I think I just worry that...you've seemed really accepting of the transference stuff lately, and I keep worrying you'll change back to how you were like a year ago." (I started crying again.) Me: "Like I was cleaning and found this printout of your email reply from like a year ago about the stone...where you said something like, 'I guess I'll just have to try to learn to be comfortable talking about transference,' and it was like your discomfort was jumping off the page. I mean, you seem to understand more now, but I worry you'll just suddenly change your mind."

T: "I do feel like focusing too much on the therapeutic relationship can keep you from working on other things. But I don't feel like you've been doing that so much lately." Me: "Yeah, I guess even in talking about the transference a couple weeks ago, it was more in relation to other things from my past." T: "Yes, and it helped me realize that, even stuff about me is not so much about you and me as about patterns in your life. And how working with that and working through those can help you." Me: "OK, good."

T: "As you know, one of my goals for you is for you to see yourself as more of an equal in relationships. And for you to see your value in them." Me: "I guess this relationship is a weird one for that because...I mean, my main value to you is money. I'd like to think it's something more than that, but..." T looked thoughtful for a minute, then said, "Well, you're interesting." Me: "Yeah, I guess I haven't put you to sleep in session yet!" T laughed and agreed. Me: "I suppose if I start doing that, it will probably be time to start reducing sessions."

It was time to stop. Confirmed next week's sessions. I said it had really helped to talk about all this. T said he was glad. As I went over to pay, T said, "Can I ask you something?" Me: "Sure?" He said he had a client who hadn't seen in 10 years who had put him on this email list for a charity. And he wondered if it was OK for him to ask him to take him off the list or if he should just keep deleting the emails as he has been. I said I thought would be OK to ask him to take him off list, that he'd probably forgotten he was on there. T: "OK, I'm going to tell him that LT said it was OK!" Me: "See, you can't, confidentiality!" T smiled. I have no idea why he asked me for advice on that (he's asked me about an editing thing before, but that's my job). Shook hands as he said, "Have a good weekend. It's supposed to be nice out." Me: "Oh it is? You too." T: "Take care." Me: "You too."

It was a really good session, and I'm glad I brought up a few concerns. T's explanations about the recent emails and the stuff about how he sees transference now was helpful to hear. And it was nice to know he thinks I'm "interesting."
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Default Jun 17, 2019 at 08:39 AM
  #417
Extra T session Friday. This will be in 2 parts because the first section is already really long. Friday, Part 1: Went back and sat down. I said I wasn't sure what thing in particular I was so upset about. T: "Let's talk it through and figure it out." Cross-posted in IST thread.

Talked a bit about a topic from last session that I didn't go into that led to a discussion of transference. T: "I'm curious about something. You seem to be calling any sort of attraction to a therapist 'transference.' Why do you think it necessarily has to be transference? People can just find each other attractive." Me: "Oh, I think it can just be attraction, too. I've told you this before, but when I first met you I thought you were attractive. So obviously that couldn't have been transference. Whereas with ex-MC, I think it was because, well, uh, I didn't find him particularly attractive when I first met him." T: "Like he's not someone you would have been attracted to normally?" Me: "Yeah." T: "Some people can become more attractive the more you get to know them." Me: "Yeah, or less attractive." T: "True. But also it makes sense in therapy, because here's this person being what might seem like the perfect partner. Like the ideal date, you can just talk about yourself and the other person will listen intently." Me: "Well, the parts where I end up crying, that's not so much the ideal date." T: "True." Me: "Or if my date was like, 'So tell me about your mother.'" T: "I don't think I've said those exact words--that's a little too cliche." Me: "Yeah."

Me: "So for why I used 'transference' with you--I guess maybe part of is that it seemed less...threatening? Not sure if that's the right word. But the way you reacted to the stone, with it being about you...I figured if I put it out there as 'transference,' maybe that would bother you less? I don't know." (Note to those who don't know the background--he gave me a stone as a transitional object when I requested one, then when I told him I'd held it and it had comforted me, and I hoped that wasn't weird, that he said it was maybe 10% weird. Which led to a rupture.)

T: "Well with the stone, we hadn't been working together that long" (it was like 8 months...). T: "And the thought of you getting comfort from something that was a part of me, I had some discomfort with that. And I felt I had to listen to that discomfort." Me: "I still don't really get the 'part of me' thing. It's not like I was holding your hair clippings." T: "True, it's a couple steps removed from that." Me: "........" Me: "But you understand it all more now, right? Because I do have that other stone, and I only hold it occasionally." T: "Yes, now I understand better." Me: "OK, good."

Part of the following exchange does not reflect particularly well on my T, but including it anyway. I find comments he makes like this to help keep the transference at bay. I forget how we specifically got on this part. Maybe my wondering if ex-MC felt attracted to me, because I got that sense at times? Ah, yeah, it was in talking about the transference for him. Me: "Like with ex-MC, at first he seemed to convince me it was mostly paternal transference. But then in the second individual session, he asked if I had any sexual fantasies about him." T: "He asked you that in your second meeting?" Me: "Second individual session. Not our second marriage counseling session!" T: "OK, I was gonna say, that's pretty direct!" Me: "Yeah!" I think in there I said I wondered if he felt attracted to me, just because of how he acted toward me sometimes.

This is the not-so-good part: T: "If I have really attractive clients, I find that I'm often more cold and distant toward them. Like I'm trying to be careful not to be acting toward them a certain way and maybe overcorrecting." Me (thinking, "why are you telling me this???"): "Hm." T also threw in there that his two summer interns are young, blonde females, which made me give him a bit of a death glare (doubt he noticed--I'm neither young nor blonde). Me: "So...if you're cold and distant toward your 'really attractive' female clients, I guess that means you don't think I'm really attractive? Or else you're really warm to most other clients?" T: "Or that I'm a really good actor." Me (in my head): ???????

We then went to something that redeemed him a bit to me. T said that he's complimented some clothing I've worn before, but that he was careful to see how I reacted to that before he did it again.
Possible trigger:


Me: "I'm fine with you commenting on things I'm wearing. It makes me feel seen and like you're paying attention. And you'll say things like, 'I like your shirt,' which is all good and different from, say, 'that shirt looks good on you.' Which maybe would be OK in the right context. Or like if you comment on the fact that I'm wearing new shoes, which these aren't. It's like you're really seeing me." T: "Those are your favorite shoes to wear lately. For a bit, you were wearing some shoes that were the same color as your purse, not sure whether to call them coral or salmon." Me: "Yep, salmon, I'd say. I got a stain on them so that's why I stopped wearing them." T: "Ah!" Me: "I'm not sure that H even notices my shoes..." (Note, these are casual sneaker style ones from Skechers--not like strappy sandals or high heels or anything remotely sexy).

T said he got the sense maybe I wanted to talk about some other stuff from the previous session. Like my dad. I started tearing up and said, "Yes, apparently we need to talk about that because I'm crying now." Will put that stuff in Part 2.
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Default Jun 17, 2019 at 09:32 AM
  #418
Cross-posted:
T Friday part 2. So we started talking about my dad some. I was quite emotional and think I went through about 20 tissues for that part of the sessions. Some of what we talked about is a bit hazy. I said how I thought part was triggered by his comment Thursday about how many girls/women go to their mother for most things, but will go to their father in a crisis. And I wouldn't think to go to my dad for that. I mean, if I had car trouble or something, yes. But not something emotional. I never felt like I could go to him for those sorts of things.

Possible trigger:

T said that seemed sad. And that it seemed like maybe I was grieving what I missed out on in childhood and even now. I said yes, it feels that way. And how it can be hard shopping for Father's Day cards because some are so sappy and my relationship with my dad just wasn't that way. And I'll only buy a card if I feel what it's saying is accurate. And therapy has made shopping for Mother's Day cards much harder, too, because I used to get the "Not just my mother, also my friend!" ones and don't know if that seems to fit anymore.

Me: "Last night it just felt like I was starting to go into this dark place. And that's part of why I wanted this session, to try to head that off." T: "Well, I hope it helps." Me: "Thanks, I think it helps to just get the feelings out."

I said how my dad often seemed to mainly care about my mom's feelings, like if I was upsetting her, he'd stick up for her and be upset with me for upsetting her. T: "Wow, it seems like everything really revolved around your mom's feelings." Me: "Yeah, I mean, my dad would even refer to her as 'the warden' at times." T: "Hm." Me: "Like she was the disciplinarian, never my dad."

There were a couple times in the session where T was talking and it was like I had a realization about something else at the same moment. I started crying at one of those and said I wasn't crying about what he was saying. He asked what made me cry. Me: "I think it's like...you and ex-MC being caring and accepting and understanding toward me...it helps show what I didn't get from my dad, like what I missed out on. I mean, not that you're that way with your kids all the time of course, but that I missed the chance to at least have someone who understands anxiety, for example." T made an empathetic sound and seemed genuinely sad for me.

The rest of what we talked about is a bit fuzzy (when I'm really emotional, my memory tends not to be as good), but it was all centered around what I felt I missed out on. T said how there's still time to change things with my dad. I said how he'd seemed warmer lately, maybe just since my D was born? Or since he lost his father a couple years before that, one of very few times I ever saw him cry? I said how maybe part of what's hard is seeing my dad act very loving toward D, like always being sure to say he loves her, and that I don't recall him being like that when I was a kid. Though he definitely says he loves me more often now.

T said how becoming parents can often put our relationships with our own parents in a different light. I agreed. He said how maybe now with D, I understand some of their struggles. But that I'm also probably trying to make up for that with D, which I agreed with. T said he wondered if I could talk to my dad about any of this, what that might look like. I said I felt I had a better chance of a good outcome with him than with my mom. He said some past clients had been pleasantly surprised by such conversations. I said I'd think about it.

We were at like 55 minutes. I said I knew we had to stop. I felt a bit like I was going to be sick (maybe from all the crying and not being able to eat that morning). I stood up and threw away my tissue pile. T: "I wish I was leaving you in better shape." Me: "It's OK. I'll be OK." (crying a bit more) T: "I just feel I'm leaving you with all these big things that came out." Me: "Yeah." T: "I feel like this was bad timing, with this weekend being Father's Day." Me: "Yeah, and I see my parents Sunday." T: "Well, remember, I'm seeing you Monday. I know we're not due to meet the second time next week till Friday, but if you find want to move it sooner, to Wednesday for example, we can do that. And I know you tend to feel weird about having an extra session like this, but I want to make it clear that I'm completely fine with it." Me: "Thanks."

Went over to pay. T, shaking my hand: "I hope you can have a good weekend. And that it goes OK with your dad." I started crying again. Me: "I'm sorry." T: "You don't have to apologize for crying. It doesn't bother me." Me: "Thanks. I guess if it bothers you, you're in the wrong profession." T: "True! Well, I hope it's a good father's day for your dad and the other fathers in your life." Me: "Yeah, like the father of my daughter." T: "Yes." Me: "I guess, Happy Father's Day to you, too." T: "Thank you. Take care." Me: "You too." I left and ended up sitting in my car in the parking lot for about a half hour collecting myself because I was still feeling really emotional. I ended up being OK.
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Default Jun 17, 2019 at 10:31 AM
  #419
I didn't realize your mc also did individual with you.

I wouldn't be too concerned if he finds you attractive or not. That will just make things harder on your end. Nothing can come of it anyway

Baby t used to often say, it's not your concern what others think of you. I never used to get it but ive understood that alot lately.

Sounds intense but hope you are doing ok now. Sorry you had a crap childhood too

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Default Jun 17, 2019 at 10:57 AM
  #420
Quote:
Originally Posted by DP_2017 View Post
I didn't realize your mc also did individual with you.

I wouldn't be too concerned if he finds you attractive or not. That will just make things harder on your end. Nothing can come of it anyway

Baby t used to often say, it's not your concern what others think of you. I never used to get it but ive understood that alot lately.

Sounds intense but hope you are doing ok now. Sorry you had a crap childhood too
Thanks for the comments. Ex-MC did two individual sessions with me, when I wanted to talk about the transference with him. He refused to do others (despite saying his door was always open to me), even when I requested one a few months later and H was OK with it. Which was hard for me.

And I know it wouldn't be good for me to know if T found me attractive--at one point in a past session, I said how this part of me wanted him to be attracted to me, but I also didn't want to know. Like I tried to make it clear I wasn't asking him the question. It was just awkward having him talk about "really attractive clients" and how he reacts around them with me. Like, talk to a fellow straight male T colleague about that (or just a male friend), not me!

Doing OK, have session in a half hour.
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