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Old 02-05-2019, 11:08 PM #11
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Default Re: Survivors - Have you found anyone doing research

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Originally Posted by precaryous View Post
Chapter 8

An Example of Group Therapy For Victims of Therapist-Client Sexual Intimacy

Sexual Exploitation in Professional Relationships - Google Books
Great. So, how come this is not a required part of psychotherapy training?

The same question goes to the other source.
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Old 02-05-2019, 11:13 PM #12
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Default Re: Survivors - Have you found anyone doing research

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That is why people like yourself are still suffering with no professional help available. Because no one gives a **** about you and me and many others who were harmed.

When we try to see subsequent therapists, they could be good and well-meaning people, they validate what happened to us, they hold the ex-T fully responsible, but they still don't know a damn thing about this type of abuse and they don't know how to work with it because no one has taught them, because their training doesn't include this type of trauma. And, frankly, how can any training include this information unless the entire profession summons the courage to address the systemic issues it has? But they don't want to do it because it's very scary. Just like no system wants to disrupt its status quo because many people in it feel quite comfortable with where they are.

So, to answer your question what do we do to heal? Nobody knows. Nobody cares. And so each one of us is struggling to pave our own path to healing. I can only share what has helped me on my path and everybody else can do the same if they choose to. At this time, it seems like this is the only thing we can do.


unfortunately, there is much truth in this.

but, OP, it does not mean that all is hopeless. like IDIMY said there are ways to heal from this, but we each have to find what works best for us
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Old 02-05-2019, 11:19 PM #13
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Default Re: Survivors - Have you found anyone doing research

Another question is the same one weve all been asking...why hasnt much else been written like these two sources since 1989 and 1992, respectively?

Im sure mention was made in Dr. Sonnes curriculum when she taught at Loma Linda University.

Ive emailed asking if she knows of any more current publications on the topic.
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Old 02-05-2019, 11:32 PM #14
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Default Re: Survivors - Have you found anyone doing research

Oh, by the way, Glenn Gabbard once visited the psychoanalytic training center where I did the two-year psychoanalytic psychotherapy program. He was doing a presentation on this topic. You know why it happened? Because I told my story to the director of that center. I told him that I had a co-joined session with my ex-T and one of their analysts, who completely invalidated my experience and was defending my ex-T. He listened to me, but didn't help me in any way. However, very soon after that conversation took place, I looked at their website and saw that they were hosting Glenn Gabbard who was going to talk about boundary violations in psychoanalysis. I just connected it to the fact that I brought that issue out in the open.

When I learned about his upcoming visit, I wanted to contact him and ask him if I could participate in the presentation and bring my perspective since I was someone who was directly affected by professional boundary violations. I decided to consult with someone before contacting him. The person I sought advice from was a therapist who was one of the TELL responders. They were also a therapist and a someone who was harmed in therapy. Well, guess what? They talked me out of asking Gabbard about participating in his presentation because according to them it was "disrespectful". So, turns out that when you are a survivor of abuse it is "disrespectful" of you to take place at the table where your abuse is being discussed and to tell everyone about your first hand experience. The most amazing thing was that the person who thought this was also a survivor. But, as a therapist, they chose to protect the authority of a person who was well-known in professional circles over the well-being of a fellow survivor. Needless to say, I didn't contact Gabbard after that conversation because it became clear to me that he'd deny me an opportunity to speak publicly about this issue.

So, I am wary of professionals who talk about this issue without bringing survivors along with them and giving them their rightful place at the table. People who were harmed in therapy should LEAD this conversation, not professionals who are trying to confine it into the parameters they define. I have not come across professionals, with rare exceptions that include myself, who would challenge the entire system and the way it trains people and who would convey the idea that the system itself creates great conditions for all kinds of predators to thrive in it.
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:46 AM #15
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Default Re: Survivors - Have you found anyone doing research

It is being researched in the uk. Examples: Iatrogenic harm from psychological therapies time to move
on | The British Journal of Psychiatry | Cambridge Core


Sexual boundary violations: victims, perpetrators and risk reduction | BJPsych Advances | Cambridge Core

The second piece of research I have posted there comes from the London based organisation The Clinic for Boundary Studies which delivers courses in ethics and boundaries for therapists.
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Old 02-06-2019, 08:05 AM #16
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Default Re: Survivors - Have you found anyone doing research

I've posted several here before. There was one larger study from the Royal College but I can't find it.

Here are two.

Negative Effects From Psychological Treatments

Adverse effects of psychotherapy: protocol for a systematic review and meta-analysis

You may want to look at sources cited to find out who else has done work on this topic.

I believe part of the problem is the practice of excluding data from the analysis and results for study participants who dropped out or had adverse reactions.
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:33 PM #17
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Default Re: Survivors - Have you found anyone doing research

Thanks so much! Reading does help in general.
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:36 PM #18
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Default Re: Survivors - Have you found anyone doing research

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Originally Posted by precaryous View Post
Another question is the same one weve all been asking...why hasnt much else been written like these two sources since 1989 and 1992, respectively?

Im sure mention was made in Dr. Sonnes curriculum when she taught at Loma Linda University.

Ive emailed asking if she knows of any more current publications on the topic.

Please let us know if she replied!
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:50 PM #19
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Default Re: Survivors - Have you found anyone doing research

Totally agree with your points, with one exception. When I found the list of feelings and life changes survivors experience in Kenneth Pope's work, it was a huge relief to me. A validation of what I was experiencing.
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:39 AM #20
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Default Re: Survivors - Have you found anyone doing research

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Originally Posted by Ididitmyway View Post
No doubt, the topic needs to be addressed urgently. It needed to be addressed properly many years ago, frankly. Because all the research that people like Ken Pope and others did still hasn't helped any survivor on the practical level and still hasn't enlightened the professional community. Why? Because the premise of their research was wrong. The research they were conducting aimed to detect the "bad apples" in order to prevent abuse. This goal comes from the erroneous premise that only "bad" professionals harm people. There was no notion in their research at any point that something was deeply wrong with the entire system of professional training. But that's a whole different conversation.

I understand that your case completely fits the kind of cases Pope and others were researching. But, they didn't suggest any ways for survivors to heal, they didn't recognize the harm that was done by unethical therapists as a special kind of trauma that required a special kind training for professionals to know how to address it, they didn't develop such training, they didn't even come up with the list of suggestions for therapists on how to work with people who were harmed by previous therapists. They didn't do any of that. Their research has benefited the professionals by informing which one of them can be at risk of committing a transgression thus helping them, as a community, to decrease the risk of liability much more than it benefited the clients who were harmed. I've read their works and, while I appreciate what they've done, I could tell that the well-being of clients was not the first thing on their mind. They were worried about how to protect the reputation of the profession more than they were worried about anything else.

That is why people like yourself are still suffering with no professional help available. Because no one gives a **** about you and me and many others who were harmed.

When we try to see subsequent therapists, they could be good and well-meaning people, they validate what happened to us, they hold the ex-T fully responsible, but they still don't know a damn thing about this type of abuse and they don't know how to work with it because no one has taught them, because their training doesn't include this type of trauma. And, frankly, how can any training include this information unless the entire profession summons the courage to address the systemic issues it has? But they don't want to do it because it's very scary. Just like no system wants to disrupt its status quo because many people in it feel quite comfortable with where they are.

So, to answer your question what do we do to heal? Nobody knows. Nobody cares. And so each one of us is struggling to pave our own path to healing. I can only share what has helped me on my path and everybody else can do the same if they choose to. At this time, it seems like this is the only thing we can do.

Well said! I agree with this. The therapeutic community is NOT equipped with the training to treat complex PTSD as a reaction to trauma within the therapeutic setting. They simply do not want to acknowledge the problem is out of control.

I am deeply deeply deeply disturbed by the growing evidence of this. You are absolutely correct in your assertions. It makes me sick to my stomach.

Thanks for writing this, it helps to know there are others to get it.

Thanks,
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