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Default Feb 05, 2019 at 06:16 PM
  #1
First- There are so many threads . I had the thought that if we included a word like survivors in thread names, we could find the topics we'd like to talk about more easily.

2nd
Over and over I have been impressed by the thoughtfulness and intelligence of survivors of unethical T's. Reading has really helped me in the six years since I left the home of the therapist who exploited me. I am having difficulty finding any guidance on recovery strategies or finding any new research about what helps us recover. Has the topic been dropped? Looking at the numbers of individuals who are survivors, it would seem to be important work.
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Default Feb 05, 2019 at 06:31 PM
  #2
I agree with you and i am heartbroken that so many experience this. You are right - this issue is out of hand and will be exposed as a cultural and societal problem similar to the catholic priest scandals.

Lookup "institutional betrayal." A lot of research is going into this and you may relate to it.

The way we have been abused in therapy typically brings on trauma in the form of PTSD or complex PTSD. You are doing the right thing by reaching out for help. I will post more later when I am at my PC, for now - be rest assured that you are not alone and that this issue deserves attention. I believe the system needs to acknowledge the problem before a treatment modality will come into existence. You have to find what helps you - build safety outside the control of others and find out what recovery looks like for you.

Some survivors cannot speak up for many reasons, others try their hardest to advocate and spread awareness. Think of all the people you can help through advocacy; you can prevent potential trauma for them and in turn could impact the industry and change policy and legislation.

I highly recommend reading two books on complex trauma. It can be triggering to read but it helped me a lot.

Complex trauma: from surviving to thriving (pete walker)
Trauma and recovery (judith herman)

I hope you have a wonderful day.

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Default Feb 05, 2019 at 07:04 PM
  #3
I wish I knew why academics are no longer writing about therapist exploitation or surviving unethical therapy. No new studies. Nothing new as far as I know.

There seemed to be a lot more interest in the 1990’s , Ken Pope, Ph.D, Peter Rutter,M.D. Gary Schoener, Ph.D. , Bates & Brodsky to name a few. My PrevT has even written about it.

Why isn’t anyone studying and writing about this anymore, I would really like to know.

It’s certainly not because the issues have gone away!
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Default Feb 05, 2019 at 07:40 PM
  #4
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Originally Posted by precaryous View Post
I wish I knew why academics are no longer writing about therapist exploitation or surviving unethical therapy. No new studies. Nothing new as far as I know.

There seemed to be a lot more interest in the 1990’s , Ken Pope, Ph.D, Peter Rutter,M.D. Gary Schoener, Ph.D. , Bates & Brodsky to name a few. My PrevT has even written about it.

Why isn’t anyone studying and writing about this anymore, I would really like to know.

It’s certainly not because the issues have gone away!
I think, the idea of "therapy" in the last 15 years or so has moved much more towards medications and medical treatments of behavioral symptoms because it's become popular to attribute every single emotional problem to genetic abnormalities in the brain, even though there hasn't been a single research that proves it. Talk therapy is not as common, I think, as it used to be. There is a belief that drugs can fix everything and so people see their pdocs mostly to grab a prescription, not for any kind of talk. Also, not as many people can afford seeing a private practitioner these days comparing to how it was 20, 30 or 40 years ago, especially when the provider is not on their insurance panel. So, the public perception of therapy has changed greatly from the talk consulting model to the drug treatment model and so all of those interpersonal dynamics between the therapist and the client are not really a part of the picture any more in the mainstream thinking. And since it's not and also since people who get harmed by those dynamics are not usually very vocal about their experiences, the perceived need for research in that area kind of disappeared. So, that's just my assumption. How much this reflects the reality..I have no idea.

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Default Feb 05, 2019 at 08:06 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Ididitmyway View Post
I think, the idea of "therapy" in the last 15 years or so has moved much more towards medications and medical treatments of behavioral symptoms because it's become popular to attribute every single emotional problem to genetic abnormalities in the brain, even though there hasn't been a single research that proves it. Talk therapy is not as common, I think, as it used to be. There is a belief that drugs can fix everything and so people see their pdocs mostly to grab a prescription, not for any kind of talk. Also, not as many people can afford seeing a private practitioner these days comparing to how it was 20, 30 or 40 years ago, especially when the provider is not on their insurance panel. So, the public perception of therapy has changed greatly from the talk consulting model to the drug treatment model and so all of those interpersonal dynamics between the therapist and the client are not really a part of the picture any more in the mainstream thinking. And since it's not and also since people who get harmed by those dynamics are not usually very vocal about their experiences, the perceived need for research in that area kind of disappeared. So, that's just my assumption. How much this reflects the reality..I have no idea.
Understood and I see your points.

But as I’ve said many times, all a person has to do is look at the licensing board discipline pages and they can read for themselves about the new cases- that therapists across all disciplines are still engaging in client exploitation. And, as you pointed out, that number is just a fraction of how many victim/survivors there really are since many do not report...

Then there are those of us that were harmed within the last several decades...and still struggling.

What do we do to recover, I want to know?

I’m Not upset with you, IDid, and do not mean my response to come off that way. I’m just ticked, in general.

The one thing I asked PrevT and current T to do for me- please bring these issues up with their current psych and med students..which they tell me they have done.

The topic needs to be addressed early in their education. While it may not deter the narcissistic or functional psychopathic student, my god, open it up for discussion.
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Default Feb 05, 2019 at 08:43 PM
  #6
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Understood and I see your points.

But as I’ve said many times, all a person has to do is look at the licensing board discipline pages and they can read for themselves about the new cases- that therapists across all disciplines are still engaging in client exploitation. And, as you pointed out, that number is just a fraction of how many victim/survivors there really are since many do not report...

Then there are those of us that were harmed within the last several decades...and still struggling.

What do we do to recover, I want to know?

I’m Not upset with you, IDid, and do not mean my response to come off that way. I’m just ticked, in general.

The one thing I asked PrevT and current T to do for me- please bring these issues up with their current psych and med students..which they tell me they have done.

The topic needs to be addressed early in their education. While it may not deter the narcissistic or functional psychopathic student, my god, open it up for discussion.
No doubt, the topic needs to be addressed urgently. It needed to be addressed properly many years ago, frankly. Because all the research that people like Ken Pope and others did still hasn't helped any survivor on the practical level and still hasn't enlightened the professional community. Why? Because the premise of their research was wrong. The research they were conducting aimed to detect the "bad apples" in order to prevent abuse. This goal comes from the erroneous premise that only "bad" professionals harm people. There was no notion in their research at any point that something was deeply wrong with the entire system of professional training. But that's a whole different conversation.

I understand that your case completely fits the kind of cases Pope and others were researching. But, they didn't suggest any ways for survivors to heal, they didn't recognize the harm that was done by unethical therapists as a special kind of trauma that required a special kind training for professionals to know how to address it, they didn't develop such training, they didn't even come up with the list of suggestions for therapists on how to work with people who were harmed by previous therapists. They didn't do any of that. Their research has benefited the professionals by informing which one of them can be at risk of committing a transgression thus helping them, as a community, to decrease the risk of liability much more than it benefited the clients who were harmed. I've read their works and, while I appreciate what they've done, I could tell that the well-being of clients was not the first thing on their mind. They were worried about how to protect the reputation of the profession more than they were worried about anything else.

That is why people like yourself are still suffering with no professional help available. Because no one gives a **** about you and me and many others who were harmed.

When we try to see subsequent therapists, they could be good and well-meaning people, they validate what happened to us, they hold the ex-T fully responsible, but they still don't know a damn thing about this type of abuse and they don't know how to work with it because no one has taught them, because their training doesn't include this type of trauma. And, frankly, how can any training include this information unless the entire profession summons the courage to address the systemic issues it has? But they don't want to do it because it's very scary. Just like no system wants to disrupt its status quo because many people in it feel quite comfortable with where they are.

So, to answer your question what do we do to heal? Nobody knows. Nobody cares. And so each one of us is struggling to pave our own path to healing. I can only share what has helped me on my path and everybody else can do the same if they choose to. At this time, it seems like this is the only thing we can do.

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Default Feb 05, 2019 at 09:07 PM
  #7
I didn't get a chance to answer your question earlier.

There are indeed some people doing research on abuse within the healthcare system, though it is tailored to the entire healthcare system not just mental health. My advice is to start by google searching, "Institutional betrayal, healthcare," and browsing around a bit.

Two notable researchers currently onto these matters are:

- Kathy Ahern, PhD, RN

She acknowledges the toxic workplace culture within the healthcare system and delves into the matter from the perspective that professionals are victims too. (And they are indeed). Obviously if professionals are abused within the system, so too are patients.

Here is a link to an amazing research article she wrote:

https://nursing.ceconnection.com/ovi...1000-00014.pdf

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another notable researcher is Andreea Tamaian (and several others who co-research with her). She has been onto these matters for quite some time.

This is one of her research articles:

https://www.tandfonline.com/author/Tamaian%2C+Andreea

-----------------------------------------------------------

The thing is, you can lose yourself in this stuff forever, so I recommend easing into it gently and being aware of your limits. I lost myself in anger for years researching this stuff and there is no short supply of stories if you look hard enough. Eventually it becomes so unbelievably triggering that you'll probably need a break. Just too much injustice. Makes me sick!

It is hard to regain faith in humanity when researching these matters because it paints a picture that the world is in fact dark and scary. In all honesty - it is. But there are good people out there and THOSE are the ones you want to find and hold onto.

I plan to do a Masters and Ph.D researching these issues. I already have an idea for a thesis and I believe it could change policy inside the healthcare system. It is disturbing that so many people know about these things and choose to do nothing about it for the sake of keeping a job. A workplace should NOT penalize whistle-blowers or truth-speakers, but unfortunately the healthcare system has become corrupted over time (as is evidenced by Kathy Ahern's research article above).

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Default Feb 05, 2019 at 10:35 PM
  #8
There's this article that I thought was interesting:

Interview With Michael J. Lambert About "Prevention of Treatment Failure"

Here are the first 2 paragraphs:

Quote:
Interviewer [Male Voice]: In your recent book Prevention of Treatment Failure you talked about the fact that some patients do get worse in the course of psychotherapy. How common is the problem, what are the causes?

Michael Lambert: In adults who enter treatment, the rate is about 5–10 percent. In children and adolescents who seek treatment, the rate is about 15–25 percent. So it's relatively rare in adults but all too common in children. And the major causes are external events that set people back like a divorce or a death or loss of a job, so it's environmental. And then within the therapy itself, it's usually related to some kind of rejection that the person experiences while they are working with their therapist. It's usually not related to specific therapy techniques but to relationship factors where the patient feels misunderstood, uncared for, or neglected in some way.
That describes what was so awful about my last therapy.

Exploitation is another experience that can leave one feeling awful.

In another thread I used the word "devastated". It's not hyperbole. It's not that the rejection just felt awful -- it was devastating.

What was it that was devastated? That's another question. It may be somewhat different for different survivors even if the basic experience was one of trauma.

I can talk about what has helped me some with the devastation of rejection. But other forms of therapy trauma may be different, and need different kinds of understanding.

Maybe list the different types of trauma for a start? Even if there is overlap?

Rejection
Exploitation -- non-sexual
Sex

Others?

I agree wholeheartedly with what IDIMW wrote:

Quote:
So, to answer your question what do we do to heal? Nobody knows. Nobody cares. And so each one of us is struggling to pave our own path to healing. I can only share what has helped me on my path and everybody else can do the same if they choose to. At this time, it seems like this is the only thing we can do.
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Default Feb 05, 2019 at 11:50 PM
  #9
Treating victims of therapist-patient sexual involvement

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1992-06283-001
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Default Feb 05, 2019 at 11:56 PM
  #10
Chapter 8

An Example of Group Therapy For Victims of Therapist-Client Sexual Intimacy

Sexual Exploitation in Professional Relationships - Google Books
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Default Feb 06, 2019 at 12:08 AM
  #11
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Chapter 8

An Example of Group Therapy For Victims of Therapist-Client Sexual Intimacy

Sexual Exploitation in Professional Relationships - Google Books
Great. So, how come this is not a required part of psychotherapy training?

The same question goes to the other source.

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Default Feb 06, 2019 at 12:13 AM
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That is why people like yourself are still suffering with no professional help available. Because no one gives a **** about you and me and many others who were harmed.

When we try to see subsequent therapists, they could be good and well-meaning people, they validate what happened to us, they hold the ex-T fully responsible, but they still don't know a damn thing about this type of abuse and they don't know how to work with it because no one has taught them, because their training doesn't include this type of trauma. And, frankly, how can any training include this information unless the entire profession summons the courage to address the systemic issues it has? But they don't want to do it because it's very scary. Just like no system wants to disrupt its status quo because many people in it feel quite comfortable with where they are.

So, to answer your question what do we do to heal? Nobody knows. Nobody cares. And so each one of us is struggling to pave our own path to healing. I can only share what has helped me on my path and everybody else can do the same if they choose to. At this time, it seems like this is the only thing we can do.


unfortunately, there is much truth in this.

but, OP, it does not mean that all is hopeless. like IDIMY said there are ways to heal from this, but we each have to find what works best for us
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Default Feb 06, 2019 at 12:19 AM
  #13
Another question is the same one we’ve all been asking...why hasnt much else been written like these two sources since 1989 and 1992, respectively?

I’m sure mention was made in Dr. Sonne’s curriculum when she taught at Loma Linda University.

I’ve emailed asking if she knows of any more current publications on the topic.
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Default Feb 06, 2019 at 12:32 AM
  #14
Oh, by the way, Glenn Gabbard once visited the psychoanalytic training center where I did the two-year psychoanalytic psychotherapy program. He was doing a presentation on this topic. You know why it happened? Because I told my story to the director of that center. I told him that I had a co-joined session with my ex-T and one of their analysts, who completely invalidated my experience and was defending my ex-T. He listened to me, but didn't help me in any way. However, very soon after that conversation took place, I looked at their website and saw that they were hosting Glenn Gabbard who was going to talk about boundary violations in psychoanalysis. I just connected it to the fact that I brought that issue out in the open.

When I learned about his upcoming visit, I wanted to contact him and ask him if I could participate in the presentation and bring my perspective since I was someone who was directly affected by professional boundary violations. I decided to consult with someone before contacting him. The person I sought advice from was a therapist who was one of the TELL responders. They were also a therapist and a someone who was harmed in therapy. Well, guess what? They talked me out of asking Gabbard about participating in his presentation because according to them it was "disrespectful". So, turns out that when you are a survivor of abuse it is "disrespectful" of you to take place at the table where your abuse is being discussed and to tell everyone about your first hand experience. The most amazing thing was that the person who thought this was also a survivor. But, as a therapist, they chose to protect the authority of a person who was well-known in professional circles over the well-being of a fellow survivor. Needless to say, I didn't contact Gabbard after that conversation because it became clear to me that he'd deny me an opportunity to speak publicly about this issue.

So, I am wary of professionals who talk about this issue without bringing survivors along with them and giving them their rightful place at the table. People who were harmed in therapy should LEAD this conversation, not professionals who are trying to confine it into the parameters they define. I have not come across professionals, with rare exceptions that include myself, who would challenge the entire system and the way it trains people and who would convey the idea that the system itself creates great conditions for all kinds of predators to thrive in it.

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Default Feb 06, 2019 at 05:46 AM
  #15
It is being researched in the uk. Examples: Iatrogenic harm from psychological therapies – time to move
on | The British Journal of Psychiatry | Cambridge Core


Sexual boundary violations: victims, perpetrators and risk reduction | BJPsych Advances | Cambridge Core

The second piece of research I have posted there comes from the London based organisation The Clinic for Boundary Studies which delivers courses in ethics and boundaries for therapists.
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Default Feb 06, 2019 at 09:05 AM
  #16
I've posted several here before. There was one larger study from the Royal College but I can't find it.

Here are two.

Negative Effects From Psychological Treatments

Adverse effects of psychotherapy: protocol for a systematic review and meta-analysis

You may want to look at sources cited to find out who else has done work on this topic.

I believe part of the problem is the practice of excluding data from the analysis and results for study participants who dropped out or had adverse reactions.
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Default Feb 10, 2019 at 06:33 PM
  #17
Thanks so much! Reading does help in general.
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Default Feb 10, 2019 at 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by precaryous View Post
Another question is the same one we’ve all been asking...why hasnt much else been written like these two sources since 1989 and 1992, respectively?

I’m sure mention was made in Dr. Sonne’s curriculum when she taught at Loma Linda University.

I’ve emailed asking if she knows of any more current publications on the topic.

Please let us know if she replied!
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Default Feb 10, 2019 at 06:50 PM
  #19
Totally agree with your points, with one exception. When I found the list of feelings and life changes survivors experience in Kenneth Pope's work, it was a huge relief to me. A validation of what I was experiencing.
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Default Feb 11, 2019 at 02:39 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Ididitmyway View Post
No doubt, the topic needs to be addressed urgently. It needed to be addressed properly many years ago, frankly. Because all the research that people like Ken Pope and others did still hasn't helped any survivor on the practical level and still hasn't enlightened the professional community. Why? Because the premise of their research was wrong. The research they were conducting aimed to detect the "bad apples" in order to prevent abuse. This goal comes from the erroneous premise that only "bad" professionals harm people. There was no notion in their research at any point that something was deeply wrong with the entire system of professional training. But that's a whole different conversation.

I understand that your case completely fits the kind of cases Pope and others were researching. But, they didn't suggest any ways for survivors to heal, they didn't recognize the harm that was done by unethical therapists as a special kind of trauma that required a special kind training for professionals to know how to address it, they didn't develop such training, they didn't even come up with the list of suggestions for therapists on how to work with people who were harmed by previous therapists. They didn't do any of that. Their research has benefited the professionals by informing which one of them can be at risk of committing a transgression thus helping them, as a community, to decrease the risk of liability much more than it benefited the clients who were harmed. I've read their works and, while I appreciate what they've done, I could tell that the well-being of clients was not the first thing on their mind. They were worried about how to protect the reputation of the profession more than they were worried about anything else.

That is why people like yourself are still suffering with no professional help available. Because no one gives a **** about you and me and many others who were harmed.

When we try to see subsequent therapists, they could be good and well-meaning people, they validate what happened to us, they hold the ex-T fully responsible, but they still don't know a damn thing about this type of abuse and they don't know how to work with it because no one has taught them, because their training doesn't include this type of trauma. And, frankly, how can any training include this information unless the entire profession summons the courage to address the systemic issues it has? But they don't want to do it because it's very scary. Just like no system wants to disrupt its status quo because many people in it feel quite comfortable with where they are.

So, to answer your question what do we do to heal? Nobody knows. Nobody cares. And so each one of us is struggling to pave our own path to healing. I can only share what has helped me on my path and everybody else can do the same if they choose to. At this time, it seems like this is the only thing we can do.

Well said! I agree with this. The therapeutic community is NOT equipped with the training to treat complex PTSD as a reaction to trauma within the therapeutic setting. They simply do not want to acknowledge the problem is out of control.

I am deeply deeply deeply disturbed by the growing evidence of this. You are absolutely correct in your assertions. It makes me sick to my stomach.

Thanks for writing this, it helps to know there are others to get it.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

__________________
"stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget"
"roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles"
"the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy"
"don't put all your eggs - in one basket"
"promote pleasure - prevent pain"
"with change - comes loss"
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