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underdog is here
Member Since Sep 2011
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Posts: 34,722
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#101
IF the question is whether OP is alone about being lured
- then my response is no. I have represented clients who were lured in by therapists. __________________ Please NO @ Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live. Oscar Wilde Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional. |
ArtleyWilkins, atisketatasket, blackocean, DP_2017, here today, koru_kiwi, Middlemarcher, missbella, Topiarysurvivor
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Magnate
Member Since Jul 2011
Posts: 2,071
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#102
Quote:
This can play out in many different ways and every person has their own unique historical roots of insecurity, and so every individual situation is different, but the general theme is always the same - it's a belief that we need to obtain something from the external world to be "happy", be it a person, a community, a parent figure, a family, achievements, recognition, fame, job etc., etc. I don't know if I could say that therapists instill the trauma bond intentionally and consciously. I can certainly say that many of them behave in the way that feeds and perpetuates clients' transference, but I am not sure that that behavior is conscious. It might be intentional, but the intention, is, mostly, unconscious, which, of course, doesn't make it any better. The intense transference, however, is the cause of trauma bonding, that's for sure. In that sense, yes, therapists often create the conditions for this thing to appear and grow. |
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koru_kiwi, missbella, Out There
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Member
Member Since Aug 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 244
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#103
Quote:
Like Topiary and others I came here assuming this could be a supportive place but now safe to say i will never under any circumstances share my stories here. Understanding why Ididitmyway and Oozit (who seems to be gone now) do not sse this as a safe and supportive place to share this kind of experience. If I were Topiary simply asking “Am I alone?” and receiving in answer a thread like this I would feel even more alone than before I posted which is why I gave my opinion on others’ opinions. It’s a lot to deal with and kudos to Topiary for gracefulness. |
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DP_2017, Ididitmyway, koru_kiwi, Middlemarcher, missbella, Topiarysurvivor
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Magnate
Member Since Jul 2011
Posts: 2,071
12 128 hugs
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#104
Quote:
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blackocean, scorpiosis37
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Magnate
Member Since Jul 2011
Posts: 2,071
12 128 hugs
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#105
Quote:
I am not a rape victim, and I would NEVER show up at a rape survivors thread to present a "different opinion" from how they view their experiences. The only reason I might ever want to join their conversation is to learn about what it's like to be in their shoes and to show support. But, most likely, I wouldn't even want to go there. It's just not my place. It's disturbing to see how many people don't understand that some topics are NOT for intellectual panel discussion, at least not in groups when so much raw human pain and suffering comes to the surface. People who suffer from trauma are NOT IN A PLACE to have any kind of debate about their experiences no matter how "gentle" it may intended to be. |
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blackocean, koru_kiwi, lesliethemad, Middlemarcher, missbella, Out There, scorpiosis37
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Grand Magnate
Member Since Aug 2017
Location: A house
Posts: 4,412
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#106
To OP you are definitely not alone. There are many stories out there. I'm sorry somehow things went off topic of your original question.
__________________ Grief is the price you pay for love. |
blackocean, koru_kiwi, Topiarysurvivor
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Member
Member Since Apr 2010
Posts: 31
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#107
This thread breaks my heart.
You are not alone. You are not alone. You are not alone. 1000 times, you are not alone. I hear you. |
blackocean, CrimsonBlues, Ididitmyway, koru_kiwi, Middlemarcher, missbella, Out There, Topiarysurvivor
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Threadtastic Postaholic
Member Since Dec 2018
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 6,006
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#108
Say what you mean, mean what you say but don't say it mean.
__________________ "I carried a watermelon?" President of the no F's given society. |
Threadtastic Postaholic
Member Since Dec 2018
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 6,006
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#109
Quote:
__________________ "I carried a watermelon?" President of the no F's given society. |
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Magnate
Member Since Jul 2011
Posts: 2,071
12 128 hugs
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#110
Oh, God... here we go again..
I am not going to repost the same response to the same ****. And, if you are a survivor who gets triggered by all this, I suggest you do the same. Some people will never get it. Don't waste your energy on them. Let that **** go. |
blackocean, missbella, Out There, scorpiosis37
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Guest
Posts: n/a
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#111
Quote:
I wish you all well in your dwelling in the same old-same old and trying to bully people who can indeed move on! |
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DP_2017
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Member
Member Since Aug 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 244
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#112
ETA: this is in response to SarahSweets who I forgot to quote:
Do you understand PTSD? Do you have it? I don't want to assume but I feel like there is just a fundamental misunderstanding here. Topiary said "I have fears about the safety too- but realized I am feeling past the point that someone’s failure to understand could retraumatize - I think!" I am personally not past that point as I have only recently admitted I have been traumatized, as indicated by my recent join date compared to others here. Others' "failure to understand" is retraumatizing for me. Hence I do not want to put my stories or even my current issues with my therapist up for public debate on a forum. How can you not understand how people coldly, intellectually debating the issues "around" your personal trauma is not potentially damaging, if not always so? Some of the “hedging” replies here talking about being adults, consent, “capacity” to see abuse is happening and capacity to stop it (etc) agitated/aggravated my PTSD symptoms surrounding my adult sexual abuse, and my PTSD is new to me so I have not learned to properly control it. This is unsafe because triggers can compound and then I lose a day or two to panic attacks and re-experiencing if it is bad enough. Some time ago when I first started trauma therapy I was severely triggered into an episode and lost maybe 2 months of my life in a complete meltdown. This is what I mean by I don’t feel safe. It’s not about hurt feelings or "different of opinion" as if we are discussing something like tax brackets or who is going to win the Superbowl. We are talking about traumas and I have a trauma disorder that means I am unstable, especially unstable because I am currently processing trauma in therapy, and if I am reminded of the shame and self-blame I feel for letting this sexual abuse and exploitation happen to me as an adult with the ability to consent, who consented to abuse again and again, then I really start to panic and feel like dying because I think, This wouldn't happen to everyone, just you, you're weak, you're stupid, others who were stronger and smarter than you could have handled this or escaped this, but not you. It's not really rational but that's what happens. Here are some of the comments that made me feel this way: "I think "being lured into..." already implies that it was something negative and the person did not have the capacity to realistically assess the costs and benefits. ... I did not dismiss that many people do not have that capacity (although I don't personally like to emphasize that very much as it sounds a bit degrading) or meant to suggest that the experience and truth of many people who suffered due to the structure of therapy and T exploitation is not very real. I also did not say that I do not understand - I think this is pretty easy to understand even without first hand experience and vulnerability. I only posted to say that it does not apply to every single person/client..." "What one may see as manipulating another may not...if both are adults and consent to going forward." "I also think people get traumatized by different things and also react differently what is indeed traumatic to them." "Then again i also don't think therapy equals power imbalance. So that's fine and understandable that some see it that way or feel it but I know I'm not alone in this. It truly does come down to each person ... Everyone will experience things differently." "I never said anything about supporting therapist client sex, unless its was years after therapy and it was consentual. I have found plenty of research as well that says there is no imbalance and clients have more power than they often think. I have heard of therapists who say that too. It's just how you view it. Yes, its awful what happened to you and anyone else who was traumatized or abused but it doesnt mean it happens to everyone. It doesn't mean there is always that imbalance. Every case is different. It CAN exist for some, but it doesn't always exist. It also isn't a fantasy, the reality is, it's two humans. Some see one are more powerful, others see them more as an equal. I don't think therapists are powerful, authority figures or anything, just average people who went to school for something in this industry. Ya they have ethics and standards... but the client is also their employer basically, the client can fire them... the client can say no to things they don't wanna talk about, they client can report them if need be, the client can write crap reviews about them...... there is a lot of power clients have to, to me it's equal. not an imbalance but its ok for others to see it differently" "An individual expressing a personal opinion, no matter what the interest she has in the subject matter, does not invalidate anyone's experience or change the truth as anyone sees fit to see it. This just seems like disagreement to me, and anyone who insists that someone else must change their mind to conform to what you believe is just a dominance and power move in and of itself. If people choose to run away from a thread or shut down because someone disagrees with them (as opposed to putting the individual on ignore and choosing not to read), that's on them. Trying to shame and guilt-trip people into changing their mind is just another form of emotional manipulation." "I don't see ideas and opinions as dangerous or harmful to people, particularly when they are expressed about the person's own experience and not a generality or a commentary about someone else's, regardless of the content. I'm just not interested in catering to demands from superior-believing other people on a public board who insist that there is only one "right" way. I've seen no evidence that any particular individuals have greater insight into someone else's pain or are otherwise more enlightened in the human condition than others. " "No one is saying those trite victim-blaming statements you claim here and I refuse to accept any responsibility for your projections or difficulty with reading comprehension or both. If it's harmful to you to read certain comments, the ignore button is available to you." I even said "unintentionally invalidate" to avoid saying someone was intentionally hurting someone. apparently that is not enough here. You must agree that words never invalidate, ever, because opinions are all just opinions. And debating the circumstances that led to someone's trauma and whether that trauma would happen to them or any random person--and whether that means that these relationships are okay for some--all this is triggering for some people who have been sexually exploited in imbalanced power relationships, and of course there will always be triggers in the sense that FLASHBACKS are brought on by sensory details no one can control, but there are also some things that are not hard to predict will be triggering of trauma disorders. No i don't want to talk about my rapes here. Jesus christ this place is a mess. |
CrimsonBlues, Ididitmyway, missbella, Out There
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CrimsonBlues, missbella, stopdog
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Member
Member Since Aug 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 244
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#113
Quote:
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CrimsonBlues, Ididitmyway, missbella
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Middlemarcher, missbella, Out There
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Grand Poohbah
Member Since Jun 2010
Location: here
Posts: 1,845
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#114
Quote:
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Ididitmyway, Middlemarcher, Out There
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Magnate
Member Since Jul 2011
Posts: 2,071
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#115
I couldn't even imagine I had so much power here that somebody decides to close their account because of me.. Wow.
And what a surprise that this is a person who has always presented herself as super reasonable, objective, intellectually sophisticated, independently thinking, emotionally invulnerable, someone who never lets her emotions get the best of her, who always keeps her cool, never gets abused by anyone because she is too powerful and independent for that to happen and who has never given anyone the power to influence her decisions.. And now she allows some other user on the forum, who objectively doesn't have any more power then she does, to "bully" her into closing her account??? Wow.. Well, I wish her well in her moving on, if she is really serious about it and doesn't come back here to the same "dwelling" later under a different name or something |
Middlemarcher
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Grand Magnate
Member Since Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 3,515
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#116
Quote:
I personally like to read different viewpoints but it's becoming clear to me that people insisting on their own viewpoint only, doesn't get us much of anywhere. Which is sad, because TopiarySurvivor introduced an important topic, that keeps getting sidetracked. To me, part of healing is learning to tolerate different opinions. Some people are just too hurt, maybe, to do that? -- if that's the case then that's the case. But I really hate to see important discussions like TopiarySurvivor started out with derailed like this. Call me a self-righteous idealist, or something else, I can take it. |
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DP_2017, koru_kiwi, stopdog
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Grand Magnate
Member Since Aug 2017
Location: A house
Posts: 4,412
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#117
Quote:
That being said.... IF you are really all about supporting fellow survivors, maybe you can knock off the drama and go back to showing support to OP. I've apologized to them for my part in going off topic, have you? Maybe something to consider, you are not innocent OP...I am really sorry for your bad experience and that this thread got so derailed, it was never my intention to harm you or anyone here or make you feel bad, I just merely wanted to express my view on things, as I feel a forum is a place you can do that. I wish you all the best in your healing journey __________________ Grief is the price you pay for love. |
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Topiarysurvivor
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Threadtastic Postaholic
Member Since Dec 2018
Location: New Jersey
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#118
Quote:
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__________________ "I carried a watermelon?" President of the no F's given society. |
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Member
Member Since Aug 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 244
5 28 hugs
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#119
Quote:
“If I was that triggered I wouldnt”—exactly, this is what I am saying. You asked me why I would feel unsafe with “different opinions” being offered about my traumatic experience and here I am saying that in this case the opinions triggered me and I would not want to open my own post up to this because I don’t feel safe being that vulnerable in a place where “anything goes and toughen up buttercup” at the moment. I used the word “triggered” and you ask “why do you feel unsafe? Cant you handle different opinions?” when clearly you know what a trigger is and what makes triggers unsafe...., I said similar debate ensuing around my trauma would trigger me so i would not share here, so why are you bothering me about this and lecturing me on the importance of hearing other opinions if you know what being triggered is like? I’m sorry about the doctor also, that’s horrible. |
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Ididitmyway, stopdog
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Administrator
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#120
This thread is being closed for administrative review.
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Topiarysurvivor
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