Being brave about therapist exploitation

[QUOTE=here today;6435856]I do feel, based on my personal experience, that some of us do go into therapy relationships and DO NOT have the capacity to realistically assess the costs and benefits.

Not everybody, but some of us. I DID have that capacity in other business and medical relationships - but not therapy. For reasons I could propose but that may not be the point.

If you HAVE the capacity then I can understand how you might not understand what it is like for those of us who DON'T. And it even may be that it's not a permanent condition, we may be able to develop that capacity later. BUT -- at that time, that's the way things were for me, and I still feel the profession does a lousy job of NOT taking that kind of thing into account.

So, I feel exploited and - this is maybe what is the trauma -- betrDevastating, as I have said before. Scary is hardly the word. That betrayal devastated me, at the time, and what I was depending on in the world. It won't happen again, I won't let it happen again, but 20 years of mostly continuous therapy, and 35 years of therapy on and off before then -- has been a very high, extraordinarily high, I think, price to pay for that.

I continue to believe that psychologists in their role of trying to understand human beings should be able to understand this possibility about people who come to their door. And to use that knowledge to help the client develop the capacity they lack, to overcome an excess idealism or wishful thinking about therapy, or whatever it may be. Before 55 years, and lots of time and money -- and wasted life -- have passed.

Some may say that's an unrealistic expectation on my part, I know now that they either don't have or don't use that kind of knowledge, but it's one the profession puts out about itself to the world and one I think the society in general expects of them.

It may also be the case that not all people who get into a sexual relationship with their therapist lack the capacity to realistically assess the costs and benefits,

I'm afraid that if you had talked to me before, I would have said that I understood the risks and that the balance of power went two ways. It has taken me a long time to understand the full impact, and to realize I totally did not understand what I was getting into. Much, much, more complicated than any other relationship I have ever had.

I think a few years ago, I would have run and hid when I saw your reply, but I do understand why you don't understand and don't think you said it offensively for me. I was prepared for some discussion when I put the post up - because I'm feeling firm enough in my understanding and because I see my subsequent therapist tomorrow.

Part of my reason for posting,besides really wanting to know the answer, was to spread awareness of how intrinsically damaging this type of situation can be. It took me a long time to even understand the questions I needed to ask. It would have to be two incredible people for it to work if it were ever possible.

I just want to tell you that, like you, I fought the concept of unequal balance of power for some time, but am now completely convinced. That acceptance was important to starting healing. If you do reading on the subject, you will find that the topic has been explored from many different directions and that there are few people if any, who have done research or study in the topic who don't start with the inbalance of power when they discuss the damage done by therapist client sex. It is accepted as a basis for damage in courts as well.

It isn't wrong for you to express your opinion, but I wanted to try to help you understand why some people find it painful.

Lucky you. I have not passed that point and I am not ashamed to put my safety ahead of a collective need to understand this subject more deeply.

I’m sorry people who don’t understand unintentionally invalidate you. I hear you on this, the power imbalance is a huge part of the traumatic experience

You totally should not be ashamed at all. Did you notice how long it took me to check for responses?

Yes. You are really brave I should say. I am glad some people like you can do that.

I never said anything about supporting therapist client sex, unless its was years after therapy and it was consentual.

I have found plenty of research as well that says there is no imbalance and clients have more power than they often think. I have heard of therapists who say that too. It's just how you view it.

Yes, its awful what happened to you and anyone else who was traumatized or abused but it doesnt mean it happens to everyone. It doesn't mean there is always that imbalance. Every case is different. It CAN exist for some, but it doesn't always exist.

It also isn't a fantasy, the reality is, it's two humans. Some see one are more powerful, others see them more as an equal. I don't think therapists are powerful, authority figures or anything, just average people who went to school for something in this industry. Ya they have ethics and standards... but the client is also their employer basically, the client can fire them... the client can say no to things they don't wanna talk about, they client can report them if need be, the client can write crap reviews about them...... there is a lot of power clients have to, to me it's equal. not an imbalance but its ok for others to see it differently

DP, I see it similarly but we cannot deny our limits of perception and experience. I really think we need to step back and not push our very personal views and experiences further. Clearly, there are people here who have truly been hurt by what they are describing (or are hesitant to describe fully) and I think people like you and I should respect that and perhaps stop antagonizing it here, at least on threads like this. That would not be avoidance, more the opposite - respecting diversity as we primarily propose. The experiences of everyone here do exist and we cannot rationalize or justify otherwise.

I’m not even a victim of therapist exploitation and I’m feeling anxious and frustrated and invalidated by this thread.... it’s very terrible to see victims come here so lonely in their experience and be told that it’s “two adults” and that there’s nothing inherently wrong with what happened... this is how police, pastors, teachers, bosses and others with power all get away with abuse of adults disguised as consent... sure you can report therapists just as you can report Catholic priests and it took Spotlight efforts to even get the church to admit abuse... it shows a big defecit in understanding how abusers present themselves to communities as public servants... YIKES is all I will say anymore on this

I'd hope those adults who see themselves their therapists' equal would have empathy and respect for the others who found their therapists' seduction or erotic behavior extremely damaging.

Every ethics discussion I've read concurs about the damage caused by practitioner-client sexual involvement. Here is the statistic that that 96 percent of women seduced by their therapists found it a negative experience. See page 119.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9bd...3ac4253d61.pdf

I'm sure this is consistent with other research on the subject.

I don’t even think it’s the client’s vulnerability that makes it unethical so much as the toxicity of a therapist who would intentionally violate their code of ethics for their own personal gratification. I did not have a sexual relationship with my T, but we did have a close personal friendship that violated numerous boundaries both during and after therapy. I felt perfectly capable of consenting to the relationship, but I had no idea how toxic my T was. She attempted suicide before a session with me and then just didn’t show up— and I had no idea where she was or what was going on for a long time. She also lied to me about so many things I can’t count. She lost her license and told me a fake story about how she didn’t actually do what she was accused of. Because I didn’t previously know her in real life, and I only knew her as T, I believed her. When we became friends outside of therapy, I had to really work to piece together the truth and discover what was actually going on. I also had to realize she is very mentally ill and incapable of real love, caring, or empathy. It was gut wrenchingly painful. I had to realize that the T I thought loved me— and used to hold me during sessions and tell me she would be in my life forever— was a really harmful, manipulative, and toxic person. I wish we had not become friends and therapy could have ended with me believing she was a caring person and competent T (who simply had “loose” boundaries).

I'm wondering why, if you aren't a survivor, this issue is so important to you. If it is based in intellectual curiosity, I would love for you to read some of the resources listed, and I would like to see some of your sources with opposite "viewpoints" on the abuse of power. The good news for me is that I am getting mad rather than shutting down or running away, but I'm not sure others are at that point.

An individual expressing a personal opinion, no matter what the interest she has in the subject matter, does not invalidate anyone's experience or change the truth as anyone sees fit to see it. This just seems like disagreement to me, and anyone who insists that someone else must change their mind to conform to what you believe is just a dominance and power move in and of itself. If people choose to run away from a thread or shut down because someone disagrees with them (as opposed to putting the individual on ignore and choosing not to read), that's on them. Trying to shame and guilt-trip people into changing their mind is just another form of emotional manipulation.

I don't believe that anyone expressing an opinion that disagrees with a majority needs to stop. Her opinion doesn't discount the reality that others have experienced a power dynamic in therapy, nor does she express that survivors who are victims of abuse are to blame for what happened to them.

Nor do I think anyone who is mad or otherwise upset at someone else's opinion has to stop either. I think it unhealthy on a public forum to try to chill discussion or otherwise force others to submit to some "viewpoint" they don't claim is about anyone other than themselves. That's my opinion, but I think if you want to insist that your viewpoint be heard, then listening to others and allowing them to disagree with it seems to go along with it. I'm not interested in reading opinions, although I am interested in learning more about therapist exploitation, that are repetitive and insisting that someone must see things the way you do.

I also think there is more to the discussion about therapist exploitation than a simple conclusion about the power dynamic as the "cause" of therapist exploitation. Power dynamics exist in all kinds of relationships, including parent-child; teacher-student; boss-employee; judge-litigants (there are some cases about judges forcing litigants into sexual relationships for favorable outcomes in family law cases), etc. It can't be just that power dynamics or an imbalance create an abuse of power, although. Pointing to the power imbalance seems to me like a discounting of a therapist's deliberate and likely calculated or strategic actions to exploit someone. I also think that one way to flare the imbalance of power is to abuse someone; meaning that abuse itself creates an imbalance of power. Over time, I think the dynamic goes both ways. But what better way to enhance your power over someone than to say something soul-crushing to them, or to come on to them, or to offer them a quid-pro-quo instead of professional help?

The other thing I have seen in the trauma survivors I work with (not as a T) is that abuse reinforces the established power someone has over someone else, so as time goes on, the abuser needs to do less and less to maintain their power, or less and less to get the person to comply with their requests or demands. Sometimes this is because the survivor feels safer when she anticipates what the abuser wants and adapts her behavior to that, so she doesn't risk the displeasure of the abuser.

I don't know if any of these dynamics apply in therapist exploitation, but it seems to me they might, if I'm hearing the stories of some of the survivors stories I've read accurately.

Very interesting points, Anne.

I'd also like to point out that, from my experience, when one is being brave and coming out from under the cover of shame, which exploitation/abuse situations can put one in, it's sometimes hard to see or allow a viewpoint other than one's own, at least for awhile. If one doesn't run away or shut down or ignore -- all things one might reasonably do for one's own safety and protection -- then there can develop an increased flexibiity for mutuality, or something. That's been my experience, though I don't know that I have the words very well.

Actually, differing opinions can be invalidating, or at least replicate the negation that survivors received from perpetrators and those who treat them in aftermath. Many times on PC therapist votaries have said exact things my bully therapist said to dismiss my assertions and pain.

When someone opens a thread to explore pain and struggle, I think the she should receive the respect and space to do that. She didn't begin a debate about whether an erotic relationship belongs in therapy. If someone else is triggered by the topic, perhaps she should leave the thread instead of being taunting, antagonistic or provocative.

Perhaps those who lust for their therapists and claim readiness affairs should start their own threads rather than taunt or "debate" someone in pain.

I'm somewhat on the fence on this -- and hence may risk offending everybody. But when people don't understand the pain and struggle another is going through -- they don't. Why? Who knows. I think it's fair to say that those opinions and points of view can be invalidating, however. Does the person have a "right" to express that point of view? Well, yes, probably, depending on the context. Is it understandable if the one feeling invalidated "pushes back" a little. Yes, in my book. It's quite understandable, I've gotten angry around situations like that, too. Takes awhile for the anger to work it's way into just assertiveness or something, so I'm very willing to give the person some space and compassion. They may need their anger, rather than the experience of being squashed and caught up in the exploitative situation. If other people don't get that -- well, I think I can have some compassion about that, too, even if I don't fully understand it.

I'd like to echo this, because the stupidity of the notion that no opinion can be invalidating of someone's experience is stunning. Of course, opinions can be invalidating! My goodness!

What about an opinion that a person (they could be a woman or a man) is responsible for someone assaulting/raping them, because they were dressed provocatively or behaved provocatively? As disgusting as this opinion is, it is an opinion nevertheless and, under our western principle of free speech, not only it has the right to exist but also to be expressed and presented at public discourse. But, are you going to tell me that this opinion doesn't invalidate the experiences of rape victims and doesn't re-traumatize them? Isn't it obvious that it does?

Why should it be different for anyone who has experienced violations in other ways? If a person tells you that they were abused by a therapist, isn't it obvious that a "different opinion" would invalidate their experience and re-traumatize them?

The only reason it's unthinkable for most people these days to tell a rape victim that they were responsible for the rape is because the public at large has already been educated on this issue. It's been in the public discourse for some time now because many victims have told their stories publicly and the public, at large, has shifted its attitude more towards compassionate understanding and away from judgment. But this has not always been the case. For centuries people were afraid to tell anyone about their experiences for the fear not only of judgment, but, at some point in history, of losing their lives. In recent history, people stayed silent mostly because they didn't believe anyone would validate and support them because the "different opinion" was prevailing until it changed.

I feel like when it comes to client abuse in therapy the public consciousness is "not there" yet to see this phenomena clearly for what it is. That's why victims are afraid to speak out publicly the same way people were afraid to tell their stories of rape and physical abuse before..because a "different opinion" was everywhere.

I can't wait to hear how offensive my analogy of rape victims was for real rape victims. Go ahead, tell me how insulting that was.

Lastly, I want to go back to the point of basic empathy.

By all means, have any opinion on this subject you want, but don't express it to victims or those who consider themselves victims of therapy abuse just out of basic compassion and empathy and basic respect for their need to process their pain. Just steer clear of their threads. And don't tell them to get their own group. Setting up a separate group here is a pain in the ***. You can set it up but it takes a long time before the system begins to post all threads separately, which makes it impossible to have meaningful discussions for a long time.

Just because you have the right to express your opinion doesn't mean you should do it. There are situations when it's a good idea to use some basic emotional intelligence a.k.a wisdom and to keep it to yourself. This is what I do when I see threads of those who dream of having an affair with their therapists and who want to see themselves as their therapists "equals". I have enough compassion and respect for their pain to avoid their threads and not to stick my "different opinion" into their faces. I don't understand why they can't show the same compassion and respect for me and others who see themselves as victims/survivors. Just because you get triggered by the topic, doesn't mean you have to come to these threads and "stick it" to us. I get triggered by your love sickness for your therapists and your whining about how much it pains you that you can't be friends/lovers/partners with your therapists. I find it pathetic and ridiculous, but I don't go to your threads to "stick it" to you because I have some basic compassion and respect for your pain not to do that. And the only reason I am doing it now is because you have not shown the same compassion and respect for me and other victims and you have come to the thread started by a survivor, so I don't feel any moral obligation to show respect for your feelings on this thread.

Refusing to engage further with a viewpoint i find harmful or invalidating is not emotional manipulation on its face, it is not intended to change a mind or force someone to not talk, no one here has enough emotional investment in conversation with me to be even BE emotionally manipulated by my sharing my thoughts and excusing myself from further debate. it is announcement that I don’t plan to debate the subject extensively out of SELF PROTECTION ie I have PTSD from both sexual abuse and an exploitative sexual relationship and it is triggering to me and I feel panicked and cornered when I read it.