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Grand Poohbah
HD7970GHZ
"Primum Non Nocere"
Member Since: Sep 2013
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#21
Yeah it really shocked me. But she wasn't mean about it - it was just a serious comment that really shocked me lol.
__________________ "stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget" "roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles" "the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy" "don't put all your eggs - in one basket" "promote pleasure - prevent pain" "with change - comes loss" |
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Grand Magnate
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#22
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Slightly different -- I was told early in my experience with therapists to "get in touch" with my feelings and express them. So I was proud in a way and felt I had succeeded when I was able to feel my anger and express it. But since it was/is in a very cut-off state, it was too intense and unintegrated when I did express the anger. It was genuine, real, but acted out. Unfortunately for me, it had to be allowed to "be", which meant some acting out (raised voice, intensity, calling the therapist a name once) until I -- the rest of me -- could come to know it, accept it, and integrate it. When the therapists rejected and shamed and/or terminated me -- it felt to me, too, as if I were being penalized. And still does feel that way to me. And it also matches what happened in my childhood when I was punished for being angry. Not taught how to express anger, punished for getting angry, for being in that state. And so that state got somewhat dissociated -- or covered over in toxic shame. Not sure I have words for it. Nevertheless, I would expect, and did expect, therapists to be able to see and understand this dynamic. They apparently don't. |
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Myrto
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#23
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blackocean, HD7970GHZ, here today, koru_kiwi, stopdog, susannahsays
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Grand Poohbah
HD7970GHZ
"Primum Non Nocere"
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#24
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__________________ "stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget" "roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles" "the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy" "don't put all your eggs - in one basket" "promote pleasure - prevent pain" "with change - comes loss" |
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here today
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Shotokan Karate
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#25
I am really sorry about what happened to you. I would have found her statement to be offensive and judgemental, HANDS DOWN! She sounds like she is unempathetic and projecting on to you.
Also, a relative of mine is a psychologist who used to run a crisis center. I told her that I have had several bad workers when I called. That is when she told me about having to fire crisis workers for being insensitive and inappropriate over the phone lines. One worker was a nurse that was abusing callers on the phone. So, yes it is possible to get a very bad worker on a crisis line. |
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HD7970GHZ
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HD7970GHZ, Mopey
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Grand Poohbah
HD7970GHZ
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#26
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Thank you for sharing this! I can't count how many times I've had to speak to directors on distress lines and explain to them that some of their behavior is unacceptable. Sometimes they aren't even willing to listen to the problem because they IMMEDIATELY become defensive the moment you mention someone on their line is unhelpful. It is that negative counter-transference problem and tendency to blame and shame the victim and protect their fellow friends and colleagues (classic problem in most workplace environments), especially easy when those of us who call into these lines have mental health struggles as it is. Add to the problem that there is literally NO oversight on these calls and they have the same power imbalance that therapists do in that they can write whatever they want about you with absolutely zero accountability. This repeats my abuse and shows that sometimes the source of the problem is with the Management and the training or the short supply of empathetic staff - especially in rural areas. It is a microcosm for toxic workplace environments and normalization of abusive behavior. Add to this the high propensity for empathy burnout and compassion fatigue - which many organizations do not acknowledge or even bother to admit - and they get burnt out and jaded and inadvertently have no more empathy to offer. Really sad. And the entire point of advocating is to improve the system, not destroy it. If they are unwilling to hear and listen to the negative experiences - how can they improve? Thanks, HD7970ghz __________________ "stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget" "roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles" "the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy" "don't put all your eggs - in one basket" "promote pleasure - prevent pain" "with change - comes loss" |
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Shotokan Karate
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Shotokan Karate
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#27
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You are welcome! As soon as I saw your post I needed to tell you what my relative, the psychologist, mentioned to me. Anyway, I really agree with what you have said. Workers could be getting burnt out from compassion fatigue and possibly dealing with an unsupportive management style. And there is a good chance that there are conflicts between coworkers. Then workers taking their frustrations out on callers. This takes place at so many work different types of work environments. And unfortunately some people on the phone lines are just bullies. My relative spoke a lot about the nurse that kept bullying callers. I would often wonder if people answering those lines need to have more training in mental health. Some information and referral help lines require workers to have a master's degree in social work or counseling to just give out information on the phone lines. I wonder if crisis workers should be master's level mental health workers to be on the phone lines or at least have those in training to become mental health professionals rotate through the crisis lines. Then the crisis lines will have to be screened because students in training need to be supervised closely. Just throwing this out there as far as crisis lines go. But something has to change. I am just sorry that you are having to deal with all of this abuse. If you would like to talk more about this, you can PM me. Last edited by Shotokan Karate; Apr 12, 2019 at 02:09 PM.. |
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Sheffield
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#28
I’ve come many weeks late to this thread so the forum likely moved on but some thoughts anyway
No comment on my life or therapy experience so as not to derail Majority of responders see this therapists comment as a big”red flag”-100 percent black and white fault That may or may not be the case but as trauma survivors ( we are all still here if participating in this thread) we aren’t victims of every other “triggering” or retraumatising comment or situation in life-we don’t have a get out of jail free card and we do have responsibility in how we interact with others whether intentional or not.- if our comments are received negatively there has to be introspection after the event however “traumatised “ we feel— this is a hard and painful and oftimes lonely perspective to take from a place of pain but for me it is so important to move from victim to survivor mentality as there will always be another trauma around the corner there is venting and venting and without being exposed to it I don’t believe I can comment on the therapists comment apart from the fact one can consider oneself to be an empath but still be inappropriate on occasion On a personal note- I can retch from a look but I would not have been offended by the therapists comment- it would have stopped me in my tracks |
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sarahsweets
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#29
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I don’t see that HD was feeling Like a victim. I think he was hurt and it’s brought back old hurts. I’m kinda in agreement that we can move from victim to survivor but I think that depends upon healing the old hurts so that you can move on. Some of us have suffered more trauma than others so it’s easy to say that as an outsider, but in some cases repeated and retraumatizing events can become a roadblock to being able to push back against others assessment of our pain. __________________ "I carried a watermelon?" President of the no F's given society. |
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HD7970GHZ
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Shotokan Karate
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#30
"Sometimes they aren't even willing to listen to the problem because they IMMEDIATELY become defensive the moment you mention someone on their line is unhelpful. It is that negative counter-transference problem and tendency to blame and shame the victim and protect their fellow friends and colleagues (classic problem in most workplace environments), especially easy when those of us who call into these lines have mental health struggles as it is. Add to the problem that there is literally NO oversight on these calls and they have the same power imbalance that therapists do in that they can write whatever they want about you with absolutely zero accountability. This repeats my abuse and shows that sometimes the source of the problem is with the Management and the training or the short supply of empathetic staff - especially in rural areas."
Yes, I am sorry that I left out the most important part of your reply here. This aforementioned is so true, and patients get hurt more due to all of what you mentioned above. Patients sometimes don't get taken seriously due to having a mental illness. So everything is just left as it is. |
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Grand Poohbah
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#31
In my opinion, the a provider-client relationship doesn't exempt a clinician from simple civility. Nor would I find sweeping mountaintop pronouncements about my alleged defects the useful. I'd find these are counterproductive because 1)they impart that person A is entitled and qualified to censure person B. 2) the label gives me no true insight to improve my character going forward.
Furthermore, I thought the consulting room a singular place where one is encouraged to verbalize pain, confusion and disappointments. I didn't realize this act was to be evaluated and castigated if it took the wrong tone. I don't understand the ethos of those in therapy. From reading this thread it's considered useful and supportive to score if someone is a survivor or a victim or a help rejecter, if someone responds proportionately as if there's a meter, and that venting in therapy is woefully unassertive, commiserate to vomiting. Again, I wouldn't find these condemnations useful nor do I speculate my life would be happy if this is how I communicate with others. |
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WishfulThinker66
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#32
It think there is a good chance here you have misinterpreted what the therapist said. Also, you seem to be having repeated difficulties with such services - over and over and over again. Perhaps time to do a self-evaluation? Is there then a cause for this? Is this also happening consistently with the same people? Is your therapist's comment perhaps then founded in this fact? I don't know what to say positively here. There is a problem that is happening a great deal and you are the constant.
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Sheffield
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#33
Thanks for your post wishfulthinker-
Im intrigued by interpretation of my post as “ easy to say as an outsider-“no where did I suggest that looking at oneself when feeling retraumatised .was easy-I’m fully aware that therapists are capable of throwing perfectly timed missiles at us if they choose ,that they can be abusive power junkies and that whether we like it or not they can also be human and have perfectly reasonable limits of tolerance of their own I’m just saying that we have not ,strictly,always suffered a wrong-doing from another even though it definitely feels that way in the present and our history tells us it is definitely that way Just my thoughts-I wasn’t there and didn’t intend to devalue OP,s situation |
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#34
Just my opinion but what I think some therapists can miss the mark on is that it doesn’t matter whether or not certain events happen exactly as they are retold by clients. They aren’t professional fact checkers or judges. What matters is how clients feel, process and integrate their reality.
Judging clients’ reactions, then “tough loving” or giving clients a “reality check” doesn’t seem particularly helpful in many cases - for at least for the OP in this example. An alternative response could have been questioning or gently reframing. It seems analytics and exploration were lost here in favor of judgment. It doesn’t mean the therapist is a monster, but her comments hurt HD and that should be explored as well. That is the important thing, not invalidating the OP’s perceptions. To what MissBella describes, I too view therapy as a space to bring whatever the client is experiencing into the room. Not everything the client brings in is going to be “nice” or “eloquent”, and I don’t think it’s the therapist’s place to shame or blame when “imperfect” material surfaces (“imperfect” meaning something a therapist does not agree with). Seems to me like it should all be grist for the mill, if the space is truly nonjudgmental. |
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susannahsays
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#35
I'm curious about why "traumatised" is in quotation marks here. It seems like a sneaky or passive aggressive way of insinuating something that I'm not quite certain of... perhaps that OP is behaving dramatically.
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Grand Poohbah
HD7970GHZ
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#36
Quote:
Hi Sheffield, Thank you for sharing your perspective. You are welcome to think what you want, but I should let you know that these kinds of things do happen. While it is easy to stand back and blame the survivor for abuse - there is always more to the story. I know what I did wrong - I threatened a lawsuit against a 70 billion dollar healthcare organization. I had every right to do so and thinking back I should have filed one. Is this my problem? Something that indicates a pattern of neurosis in me? Well - no, I have only ever threatened a lawsuit once and I saw the ramifications, why would I do it again? Also, I welcome you to research and explore therapy abuse before making comments about trauma in therapy. You may not know this - but I have deeply explored my trauma and I have had several professionals acknowledge the problem and help me battle the guilt and shame that these malignant narcissistic psychopaths had dropped on me. This is a classic tactic utilized by abusers. I actually blamed myself for years. I believed the lies. It took a long time to gain perspective and after years of researching therapy abuse, I have discovered I am not alone. What I have realized is that I have been wronged by people whose job it is to help but instead chose to harm. Institutional betrayal is indiscriminate and non specific to healthcare; it happens all around the world because people in power abuse their power and have things to hide. Rather than admitting to these things - they carry out character smear campaigns and coverups and intimidate survivors into silence... Tell me, if that happened to you - would you blame yourself? Thanks, HD7970ghz __________________ "stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget" "roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles" "the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy" "don't put all your eggs - in one basket" "promote pleasure - prevent pain" "with change - comes loss" Last edited by HD7970GHZ; Apr 15, 2019 at 07:51 AM.. |
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Shotokan Karate
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Grand Poohbah
HD7970GHZ
"Primum Non Nocere"
Member Since: Sep 2013
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Posts: 1,776
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#37
Quote:
Hi WishfulThinker66, I want to thank you for sharing this. It is a perfect example of victim blaming and shaming and showcases the kind of thinking that perpetuates further abuse in systems like healthcare. In saying this, I welcome you to think about what you have written and ask yourself why you jumped to that conclusion. I also recommend reading up on societal gaslighting. Society has a tendency to view the survivor as the culprit, especially when it happens more than once. I think a lot of people struggle to accept the fact that repeated abuse happens to those who have been abused. Of course, if you don't know anything about complex trauma and relationship dynamics, I welcome you to read up on repitition compulsions, trauma bonding and self-fulfilling prophecies. Also, those with complex PTSD find themselves in exploitive relationships, while this is correlated with the symptomatology, the real problem is not that complex PTSD survivors make themselves vulnerable time and time again, but that those who they show vulnerability around choose to take advantage of it. That is a problem, isn't it? I have heard the theory that I am the constant before. I actually believed this for a time, that is until I researched Institutional Betrayal and discovered that the only constant is that those in power abuse with impunity. Considering the inherent power imbalances found in therapy as well as the lack of accountability, it makes sense that abuse should happen in systems like these. Add to this the fact that professionals generally don't even acknowledge the vast abuse that takes place - similar to Catholic Clergy. This also perpetuates abuse. I would have been triggered by your post if it were not for the fact that I am not the common denominator here. Alteration and falsification of medical records, unethical malpractise, a culture of fear and intimidation that enforces coverups and lack of accountability, normalization of deviance, these are things that exist whether I am in the picture or not. The only constant is a pattern of shady behavior found in healthcare and believe me - it is being exposed. I could go on and on but really, I don't feel like giving you my peace of mind. Rest in knowing that your perspective is false and that your behavior is a product of ignorance and societal gaslighting. Thanks, HD7970ghz __________________ "stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget" "roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles" "the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy" "don't put all your eggs - in one basket" "promote pleasure - prevent pain" "with change - comes loss" |
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Shotokan Karate
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blackocean, Shotokan Karate
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Shotokan Karate
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#38
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blackocean, HD7970GHZ
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blackocean
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#39
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and anyway telling someone they lack empathy is pretty damn harsh. Even if not intended to be. Psychopaths lack empathy. Abusers do. It’s telling an abused person they are more like their abuser. Last edited by blackocean; Apr 15, 2019 at 02:56 PM.. |
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Shotokan Karate
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#40
It seems pointless and counterproductive to go around labeling people victim or survivor. How does that type of discussion help anyway? Whatever label society uses, the person suffering still needs help in dealing with the trauma.
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HD7970GHZ, missbella
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