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nottrustin
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Default Mar 28, 2019 at 12:04 PM
  #61
Is it possible that the reason he doesnt want to talk about it all the tune us because it is so chronic? By always focusing on that topic you are not getting to the deeper issues which if addressed could possibly with time help you with the chronixh or hopeless, suicidality, or whatever else is going on. Obviously, I don't know either of you just a thought

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Default Mar 28, 2019 at 07:10 PM
  #62
I saw my doctor today. She will absolutely not put me on meds, which is a bit of a relief.

I also found a therapist for the summer. He's male, PhD, and christian - everything I wanted. And also expensive...but current T said I only have to go every second week so I should be ok.
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Default Mar 29, 2019 at 05:49 AM
  #63
I think spending money on yourself and your health is a good investment. I'm glad you found someone.
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Default Mar 29, 2019 at 07:57 AM
  #64
I am so glad you have found someone for the summer. Hugs
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Default Mar 29, 2019 at 10:51 AM
  #65
Why won't your doctor put you on meds? That seems kind of... idk... wrong, somehow. I mean, you've attempted suicide before. What would you have to do to get an antidepressant? I'm glad you feel relieved; I guess I just feel really bad for other people who genuinely need and want medication and are denied it. My understanding is that waiting lists for Medicare-funded therapy in Canada are long, and that the therapy is time limited. So I wonder what happens to people who can't afford to pay a therapist out of pocket and who are also denied medication from a GP...

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Default Mar 29, 2019 at 05:31 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by GeekyOne View Post
I disagree that a GP is not a good source for an initial trial or two of psychiatric medications. Antidepressants are some of the most commonly prescribed medications and GPs prescribe them every day. Modern ADs are generally safe and have low side effect profiles.
Safe? Many psychiatric medications come with black box warnings about increased risk of suicide.

There is a ton of anecdotal evidence online of people going thru horrific withdrawal syndromes when trying to get off ADs.

There is research showing that drugged people tend to fare badly long term, not just mentally but physically (i.e. many organ systems effected). Investigative journalist Robert Whitaker has covered this extensively.

Far as i know, ADs do not treat any known imbalance or disorder. Rather they introduce pathology where none existed previously. And there is no objective testing to establish the patient's particular chemistry before the drugging begins.

Doctors hand these drugs out like candy, not because they work or are safe, but because it's profitable to do so, and it's easy, and nobody holds them accountable.

I think if you want help with the physiological aspects of sui thoughts or depression, functional medicine is worth a try.
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Default Mar 29, 2019 at 05:50 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by susannahsays View Post
Why won't your doctor put you on meds? That seems kind of... idk... wrong, somehow. I mean, you've attempted suicide before. What would you have to do to get an antidepressant? I'm glad you feel relieved; I guess I just feel really bad for other people who genuinely need and want medication and are denied it. My understanding is that waiting lists for Medicare-funded therapy in Canada are long, and that the therapy is time limited. So I wonder what happens to people who can't afford to pay a therapist out of pocket and who are also denied medication from a GP...
I know the post wasn’t directed at me, but I feel compelled to answer. Canada’s health care system varies by province/territory. I wouldn’t make a general statement about our waiting lists/therapy in that it is so varied. Years ago, I had access to therapy/dieticians/psychiatrists, and even residential care and didn’t have to pay anything at all. I would say that improvements should be made for more and better access, but there are many programs for people that need them in many areas of the country.
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Default Mar 29, 2019 at 07:06 PM
  #68
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Safe? Many psychiatric medications come with black box warnings about increased risk of suicide.

There is a ton of anecdotal evidence online of people going thru horrific withdrawal syndromes when trying to get off ADs.

There is research showing that drugged people tend to fare badly long term, not just mentally but physically (i.e. many organ systems effected). Investigative journalist Robert Whitaker has covered this extensively.

Far as i know, ADs do not treat any known imbalance or disorder. Rather they introduce pathology where none existed previously. And there is no objective testing to establish the patient's particular chemistry before the drugging begins.

Doctors hand these drugs out like candy, not because they work or are safe, but because it's profitable to do so, and it's easy, and nobody holds them accountable.

I think if you want help with the physiological aspects of sui thoughts or depression, functional medicine is worth a try.
Given your frequently stated position as anti-therapy, I don't find your comments here surprising. You seem mostly to be anti-science. It does make me wonder what you consider "functional medicine"? Science shows that the most effective treatment for typical mood disorders is a combination of therapy and antidepressants.

"Natural" and/or herbal supplements' contents are not regulated and their effects are not scientifically supported. Regular cardio-vascular exercise has been shown scientifically to have value, but if it's not enough that's not a judgement on anyone. Mental illness like clinical depression is more than just a bad day and deserves scientifically supported medical treatment.

I will clarify my statements on safety, less for you than for others reading this thread. I am not expecting to change your mind.

Modern antidepressants (SSRIs and SNRIs) have far fewer side effects than their predecessors, the tricyclics (TCAs) and MAOIs. They are also far less dangerous in overdose (which is to say, they are much much less likely to result in death).

And yes, you are correct - some people experience "withdrawal" or "discontinuation syndrome", but the medical field is increasingly aware of it and familiar with how to treat it, and it is still uncommon. I would argue that fear of possible discomfort coming off a medication should not cause one to completely write off ever using it appropriately as prescribed.

Remember that anecdotal evidence on the internet by its very nature skews negative because people who are doing well for the most part don't think to post about it.

To the OP: I'm glad you've found some support for the summer and I hope it works well for you. That, ultimately, is what matters most.
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Default Mar 29, 2019 at 09:24 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by GeekyOne View Post
Science shows that the most effective treatment for typical mood disorders is a combination of therapy and antidepressants.

"Natural" and/or herbal supplements' contents are not regulated and their effects are not scientifically supported. Regular cardio-vascular exercise has been shown scientifically to have value, but if it's not enough that's not a judgement on anyone. Mental illness like clinical depression is more than just a bad day and deserves scientifically supported medical treatment.
There are not enough hours in the day to address the many fallacies and debunked myths you are referencing. I think you are confusing pseudoscience and corporate junk science with actual science. I used to believe these things too.

Psychiatry and pharma insiders have admitted that the narrative behind ADs is largely BS.

I know this thread is not about debating drugs, but discussions like this one can be kinda dangerous without diversity of viewpoint, and when industry propaganda is presented as truth.

I personally would not let any MD screw with my brain chemistry. Not if you paid me.

There are many interventions and remedies for depression and other afflictions that do not come with such hideous risks and side effects.

Functional medicine is root cause medicine. Conventional medicine is about suppression.

Therapy and psychiatry are the embodiment of pseudoscience. Clearly they can and do help some people, but let's be real.
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Default Mar 30, 2019 at 02:20 AM
  #70
I must be the exception then. I have been stable on meds for 15 years...no self harm, no psychosis. They saved my life.

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Default Mar 30, 2019 at 02:24 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by BudFox View Post
There are not enough hours in the day to address the many fallacies and debunked myths you are referencing. I think you are confusing pseudoscience and corporate junk science with actual science. I used to believe these things too.

Psychiatry and pharma insiders have admitted that the narrative behind ADs is largely BS.

I know this thread is not about debating drugs, but discussions like this one can be kinda dangerous without diversity of viewpoint, and when industry propaganda is presented as truth.

I personally would not let any MD screw with my brain chemistry. Not if you paid me.

There are many interventions and remedies for depression and other afflictions that do not come with such hideous risks and side effects.

Functional medicine is root cause medicine. Conventional medicine is about suppression.

Therapy and psychiatry are the embodiment of pseudoscience. Clearly they can and do help some people, but let's be real.
I know you have strong opinions about meds and therapy. Is there any evidence at all that you would look at as reliable? Meds are not without risk, but just like I would not go so far as to say that meds solve everything and they are perfect for everyone with mental illness, I would not say they are the worst choice in the world and they will do nothing but harm you. I do not think either extreme is right.

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Default Mar 30, 2019 at 06:07 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post


I know you have strong opinions about meds and therapy. Is there any evidence at all that you would look at as reliable? Meds are not without risk, but just like I would not go so far as to say that meds solve everything and they are perfect for everyone with mental illness, I would not say they are the worst choice in the world and they will do nothing but harm you. I do not think either extreme is right.
This is a useful review of the evidence...
Do Antidepressants Work? A People's Review of the Evidence - Mad In America

This covers a long term study on ADs (30 yrs)...
https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/488802

Also i found Whitaker's book "Anatomy of An Epidemic" a huge eye opener. The main finding of the book is that mental illness in America has exploded in lockstep with the proliferation of psychiatric drugs.
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