Sometimes I see people on here talking about not being able to afford therapy , therapy gone wrong and the like....

I have a different "problem". When I started therapy, I was on disability but since then, I lost it. Luckily, I was finally able to get my VA benefits but the VA does not have enough therapists so I got authorization from the VA to go to a therapist in the community who will accept the VA's contract. I have used this service for other medical needs and the VA generally pays at least as much for services as Medicare did. The problem is that my therapist cannot figure out how to successfully submit my claims. The only reason I know she has not been paid is that I regularly ask her and when I asked last session she said she just wanted to change me to a pro bono client.

I have been trying to go to therapy less and less because it make me feel "well" to think that I don't need therapy though she has helped me a lot. I said I was feeling better and was planning on only going quarterly but then ended up making an appt for one month later. It doesn't feel "right" to have gone to all this therapy for free (My disability ended in February).

I now believe my problem is that I have some codependent traits -- I have been making some strides towards becoming less so -- funny how that I think that the kind of person who would give away so much free therapy may have some codependent traits as well? When I was a teacher -- I spent WAY too much of my money giving my students free stuff (loads of books, food, supplies) and I think my compulsion to do this stemmed from a sort of codepency that I wish I had examined a long time ago.....

Some of us just talk to ourselves on here instead of a therapist. That's OK; writing a thread is a lot like talking to a therapist--sometimes they offer suggestions; othertimes they say nothing unless you ask for their advice. I have decided my next session will be my last with her unless she has figured out how to get paid. I am not going to take advantage of her generousity. I know enough about what went wrong with me to take it from here. Healing for me is about making amends for past wrongs and trying to be a better person to the people who depend on me. I made many mistakes concerning the way I raised my children. I can't change it but I do what I can whenever the opportunity presents itself. I am not sure I have a mental illness, rather, I made bad decisions. This is why I have been trying to work rather than appeal my loss of benefits. Maybe I do have a mental illness but mostly, I am just a very wishy washy person but I know right from wrong and and just need to be more courageous than I have been in the past. I have really talked enough about it on here--this is my third psychcentral account--I keep deleting them because I tell myself I have talked enough about it and it doesn't really help--I should move on and focus on my "real life". Talking helped when I was so unsure about why it (my breakdown) happened. I know why now. We reap what we sow to a great extent--I've had every advantage in life but made many bad choices.

[SlumberKitty]

I'm not sure if this will help but I don't see going to therapy without paying the therapist as taking advantage of her generosity. A lot of professionals will do pro-bono work as a way of giving back to the community. If therapy has been helpful to you, I would encourage you to stick with it. I'm sure we have all made bad choices in life here and there but we could still use help in figuring out how to deal with those choices and clarity on how to make better choices in the future. That's my take on it. I'm not sure if you were looking for an answer or just wanted to talk. In any case ((hugs)) if you want them.

[PurpleBlur]

pay what you can, then, and accept the rest as a goft. even if its only 5 or 10 dollars a session...give what you can afford.


OR research and figure out what she needs to submit your claims correctly. was n this situation too with a t who couldnt fill out claims properly so she ended up seeing me for free (but i didnt know that for a year afterwards)

[TishaBuv]

If you are not feeling good about the dynamics you probably won’t benefit from it anyway.

Yes, I post here and try to help others, which helps me too. I can’t handle any more bad therapist experiences.

I also obsessively read everything I can about my issues in professional articles.

I couldn’t get into the DBT. It was boring to me and I didn’t want to do the workbook.

My goal is to stop having meltdowns. But if I do, my goal is to not cope in a harmful way.

Baby steps. Simple goals.

[Ididitmyway]

I will second the opinion that accepting someone's generosity is not the same as taking advantage of them. People take advantage of other people when they try to take more than what was offered if they feel that the person cannot refuse. By framing this as taking advantage of your therapist you are trying to take care of her, which is exactly a co-dependent trait that you are trying to get rid of. She is an adult and doesn't need to be taken care of. When she offers you free service as a pro-bono work, you should assume that she knows what she is doing, and if she doesn't know what she is doing, this is not your problem to "fix".

If you don't feel good about accepting free therapy, because that makes you feel dependent, that's a different issue. In that case, you can offer her a very small amount or any amount you can and are willing to pay her. This will be a symbolic pay, but a symbolic pay is important IMO because it conveys a clear message that this is a professional, fee-for-service, relationship.

I personally don't believe in pro-bono work, but I do believe in providing a "near free" service to some economically disadvantaged people. It means that if someone is super poor and struggles to make it and if they are not referred by the agency that can pay for them such as VA, I'd charge $1, just one buck per session, which is virtually free counseling, but I'd still introduce this symbolic payment because this to me signifies the professional nature of our meetings and, I think, it also gives the client the dignity of not feeling like they are receiving charity service. But that's just me. I know there are other views on this out there.

Originally Posted by PurpleBlur

OR research and figure out what she needs to submit your claims correctly. was n this situation too with a t who couldnt fill out claims properly so she ended up seeing me for free (but i didnt know that for a year afterwards)

I have been trying to do this and go to the VA again this month before next month's therapy appt.

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

By framing this as taking advantage of your therapist you are trying to take care of her, which is exactly a co-dependent trait that you are trying to get rid of.

Good point.


I can afford to pay (though I am cheap and would appreciate a discount) and I have been offering to pay but she won't accept (this is why I wondered to myself if she had some codependent traits also.

Thanks for all your replies.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by Nowinners

I can afford to pay (though I am cheap and would appreciate a discount) and I have been offering to pay but she won't accept (this is why I wondered to myself if she had some codependent traits also.

She might or might not, it doesn't matter, because it doesn't have to be your problem.

Good luck with whatever you decide

When I went to her on October 1st and she still hadn't figured out how to get paid she said the therapy was her way of giving back to veterans.

I said, "Given that I now have a job and M has a job, let me pay you $80. each time since we are both fortunate that we now both have jobs." She agreed and apparently still felt good about it because she usually charges $100 and felt like she was still giving back by giving a discount. Also, when I had implied she was worth $80, she let me know that her services are definitely worth $100. I thought it was sort of cute the way she reacted to the $80 (she feels like she is worth it and she has been a good therapist).

My next appointment with her is Dec 19th.

In the meantime, I feel like when I have negative thoughts, it is the same old story over and over. As a matter of fact, I have been here since June 2016, and I have noticed that many of us go over some of the same issues in 2018 as we did in 2016---just with slightly different twists.

I purposely didn't take my Zoloft on Friday (for better sex), then forgot on Saturday (found the Saturday pill in the slot this morning) then ended up complaining to my husband about the same old things. It was a pretty good session. He is a lot more patient with me now--we have gotten to the other side of this in some ways. Of course, in other ways, I will never change. He says he loves me anyways. I am very lucky. Not sure I need therapy anymore or that I need to come to PC as much anymore. Don't want to sound like a broken record to you'all.

[TishaBuv]

Thank you for your service to the USA and Happy Veterans Day!

During my last session, my therapist told me things that are hard to hear. She said, my husband and I tolerate each other and stay together only because it is what we are comfortable with--that we have just enough good times to stay together but we don't really like each other! She said this because of what I have said to her. Since I am not divorcing him anytime soon -- I have to to do a better supporting him. I have improved in the area of telling him what I think of him even though it starts fights then working more things out together rather than avoiding things.

In my head, I am a very wishy washy person who sometimes (ever since my attempt) goes back and forth on how I feel about him. The truth is that we get along pretty well when I "medicate" myself. He says he loves me but not my problem. But if he only loves the "medicated" me--does he really love me and I love him? I wonder if I am just numbing myself to the truth and am an awful person to have stayed with him for 31 years. Not feeling good about what kind of person I am at all. Am trying to do better and be better.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Nowinners

I wonder if I am just numbing myself to the truth and am an awful person to have stayed with him for 31 years. Not feeling good about what kind of person I am at all. Am trying to do better and be better.

Unless you're keeping him in a cage, I don't see how staying in a marriage that may not be right for *you* (who knows about him, have you asked?) makes you a bad person at all. It's not a requirement for a marriage that both people love each other in some certain kind of way. While "waking up" to pay more attention to how you feel and whether this is marriage what you want for yourself sounds like a productive inquiry, I think it's more important to see things as they are without all the self judgment and unwarranted negativity.

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

Unless you're keeping him in a cage, I don't see how staying in a marriage that may not be right for *you* (who knows about him, have you asked?) makes you a bad person at all. It's not a requirement for a marriage that both people love each other in some certain kind of way. While "waking up" to pay more attention to how you feel and whether this is marriage what you want for yourself sounds like a productive inquiry, I think it's more important to see things as they are without all the self judgment and unwarranted negativity.

Yes, I do slip into negativity sometimes--neither of us need that--depression? Antidepressants do help it. I am taking two.

We are doing a lot better though we still have our moments. We are talking about our future plans a lot more lately. He has almost always said he loves me and wants to stay with me. Thanks for your response.

I really understand the discomfort about not paying the T even if it's due to a complicated administrative process. I have never been in a similar situation but, knowing myself (how important it is to be financially capable and responsible), I would not go to therapy more than a couple times if the payment did not reach the provider. I did not even accept financial support from my parents beyond age 19 and would never accept anything other than equal contribution with a spouse, let alone a service provider, and a symbolic cost for me would be just like not paying at all. I know this is also type of issue and I am not saying at all that I am right or the most realistic, just saying I understand the feeling very well. And I actually do believe in pro bono work and I am doing some myself, just don't want to be the receiving end of it for anything beyond very simple and brief. Just my personality and values.

The T not being able to figure out how to submit claims is really not your fault and responsibility though. Maybe one kind of compromise could be to make a deal how many more sessions (or weeks) maximum should take to figure out the claims and if it still does not work, stop therapy. Did she explain what is difficult about the claims?

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I really understand the discomfort about not paying the T even if it's due to a complicated administrative process. I have never been in a similar situation but, knowing myself (how important it is to be financially capable and responsible), I would not go to therapy more than a couple times if the payment did not reach the provider. I did not even accept financial support from my parents beyond age 19 and would never accept anything other than equal contribution with a spouse, let alone a service provider, and a symbolic cost for me would be just like not paying at all. I know this is also type of issue and I am not saying at all that I am right or the most realistic, just saying I understand the feeling very well. And I actually do believe in pro bono work and I am doing some myself, just don't want to be the receiving end of it for anything beyond very simple and brief. Just my personality and values.

The T not being able to figure out how to submit claims is really not your fault and responsibility though. Maybe one kind of compromise could be to make a deal how many more sessions (or weeks) maximum should take to figure out the claims and if it still does not work, stop therapy. Did she explain what is difficult about the claims?

I decided not to let this bother me yet it does slightly in the back of my mind (she still hasn't figured out how to file the claims to get a payment). I know my psychiatrist is still trying to help her with this. And the day I said I was going to pay $80, she said--just pay $50 then the next session I saw her, she said, "If I am paid (by the VA), I am giving you that $50 back and then I didn't even pay her that session. I have decided she means well. Is only human and definitely is not seeing me for the money. She says it is her way of helping veterans.

Both her and the therapist before her have been helping me pay more attention to how I feel. She has also been encouraging me to stand up for myself. I've worked through a lot of what has happened and want to stay married. Things are a lot more intimate and he treats me so much better now. I don't feel like I need therapy much anymore. She knows so much about me that I won't be changing therapists but have no sessions scheduled and hope it stays that way (I will go if I feel like I am going off the deep end. )

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Nowinners

Yes, I do slip into negativity sometimes--neither of us need that--depression? Antidepressants do help it. I am taking two.

We are doing a lot better though we still have our moments. We are talking about our future plans a lot more lately. He has almost always said he loves me and wants to stay with me. Thanks for your response.

It was sometimes difficult for me to hear my spouses's declaration of love and commitment when I wasn't feeling so great about myself as a person. I would still say that the point is what you want or don't want.

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I would still say that the point is what you want or don't want.

Are you here on behalf of the Therapist's union? I could see my T saying something like this.

Originally Posted by Nowinners

Are you here on behalf of the Therapist's union? I could see my T saying something like this.

Anne,

I am sorry about this comment. Since saying this, I have read some of your comments and have learned that you are a therapist but mostly post from the POV of someone who used therapy to improve/transform her life.

Originally Posted by Nowinners

During my last session, my therapist told me things that are hard to hear. She said, my husband and I tolerate each other and stay together only because it is what we are comfortable with--that we have just enough good times to stay together but we don't really like each other!

I scheduled a therapy session for this week. It might be the last one for a while (though because she lets me come and go as I please--I won't totally rule out going back). I do plan on discussing the above comment. I felt like what she said is because I have not been a good wife. I have been trying to be more loyal, work more as a team with him concerning the issues going on with our son and not be afraid to tell everyone in my family what is on my mind.

During this session, my T also seemed concerned that I wasn't able to express how I felt. Both of my children have expressed concern that my medication makes me less empathetic than before. I blame my Sertraline (Zoloft) for this. It is like emotional novacaine. I have been weening myself off it. I needed it for a while in order to stop crying about and to be able to deal with my son without getting overly emotional. The last thing he needs is for me to get angry. I seem to not be getting angry at him now despite not medicating as much. I would like to think I am getting more perspective about the situation.

If my T has not figured out how to get paid--I will insist on paying her. She seems like the kind of person who doesn't always insist on charging what she deserves. I am also going to discuss--do I really need to go to therapy anymore. What would the point of it be? I am thinking maybe I have thought about my mental health enough during the last three years and need to move on....

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Nowinners

Anne,

I am sorry about this comment. Since saying this, I have read some of your comments and have learned that you are a therapist but mostly post from the POV of someone who used therapy to improve/transform her life.

Uh, I'm not a therapist. You must be confusing me with people on here who are therapists. But I am a lawyer, so I understand why you might confuse me with a therapist, given how similar the two professions are. It might be confusing because my legal work focuses on indigent, highly traumatized persons. So I work with people who have experienced all kinds of trauma and maybe that makes me sound like my stance is more like a professional rather than a very successful therapy client.