[HD7970GHZ]

Hello all,

I am seeing a therapist again and it has not been a great experience.

The other day I vented some frustration about abusive people on distress lines and abusive people in therapy. I brought up the issue surrounding Empathy Burnout and Compassion Fatigue on distress lines. Told my therapist I have been hurt many times by people who are condescending, demeaning and like to hang up on me. I mentioned that those people either should stop working on distress lines or take a break so they can come back and show more empathy and compassion for those in need of help.

Her response was, "It's sounds like you lack empathy."

WHAT?! This was a BIG RED FLAG! Lack empathy?!

How the hell does my frustration and anger towards abusive distress line workers mean I have a lack of empathy for them?

Luckily I caught this and made sure to include the word, "projection," because she was totally projecting this onto me, but even still, if I didn't know about projection I would have actually believed her!

Is this something a therapist should say to someone? To come to that conclusion so quickly and considering I was the one who brought up a lack of empathy from the abusive distress line workers, seems convenient for her to project it back onto me!

Since when is having anger towards abusive people a lack of empathy? I could not believe she would say this! Absolute hogwash.

I will be terminating therapy with this therapist immediately and letting her know this was the deal breaker - never have I been told I have a lack of empathy for venting about abuse! UNBELIEVABLE.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

[here today]

Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ

Hello all,

I am seeing a therapist again and it has not been a great experience.

The other day I vented some frustration about abusive people on distress lines and abusive people in therapy. I brought up the issue surrounding Empathy Burnout and Compassion Fatigue on distress lines. Told my therapist I have been hurt many times by people who are condescending, demeaning and like to hang up on me. I mentioned that those people either should stop working on distress lines or take a break so they can come back and show more empathy and compassion for those in need of help.

Her response was, "It's sounds like you lack empathy."

WHAT?! This was a BIG RED FLAG! Lack empathy?!

How the hell does my frustration and anger towards abusive distress line workers mean I have a lack of empathy for them?

Luckily I caught this and made sure to include the word, "projection," because she was totally projecting this onto me, but even still, if I didn't know about projection I would have actually believed her!

Is this something a therapist should say to someone? To come to that conclusion so quickly and considering I was the one who brought up a lack of empathy from the abusive distress line workers, seems convenient for her to project it back onto me!

Since when is having anger towards abusive people a lack of empathy? I could not believe she would say this! Absolute hogwash.

I will be terminating therapy with this therapist immediately and letting her know this was the deal breaker - never have I been told I have a lack of empathy for venting about abuse! UNBELIEVABLE.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

They don't get it.

Not many do, in my experience. I haven't found one yet, doesn't mean there aren't any out there.

What brought you back into therapy again?

[sarahsweets]

I dont know if the intent was as you say it was.. Maybe the therapist was trying to encourage you to give the empathy you expected?

[growlycat]

I am not a fan of crisis lines or chat. At best they sound like they are reading from a script. At worst they just don’t care. I get what you are saying. Maybe your therapist just doesn’t know how bad those lines are.

[divine1966]

Even if therapist believes that you lack empathy (not saying that you do just IF for the sake of the argument), she or he still has to word it better. That just sounds awful. I’ve never met a therapist who spoke in this manner.

Venting isn't usually well received or accepted. It's like vomiting mental contents. No judgement here-I've been there.

It may have been more beneficial if the T guided you through an alternative expression of your anger.

What is it with those who work in crisis lines anyway? They always sound toxic. I understand burnout, but what is the underlying dysfunction? Just curious.

[Mopey]

W.T.F. ?? I can see why you are flabbergasted, HD.

Personally, the one time I called a Suicide Prevention Line, many decades ago, I ended up having to talk to myself because the person on the other end had absolutely nothing to say.

VERY helpful. NOT!!!

[Lefty Seven]

Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ

Her response was, "It's sounds like you lack empathy."

WHAT?! This was a BIG RED FLAG! Lack empathy?!

How the hell does my frustration and anger towards abusive distress line workers mean I have a lack of empathy for them?

Luckily I caught this and made sure to include the word, "projection," because she was totally projecting this onto me, but even still, if I didn't know about projection I would have actually believed her!

Is this something a therapist should say to someone? To come to that conclusion so quickly and considering I was the one who brought up a lack of empathy from the abusive distress line workers, seems convenient for her to project it back onto me!

Since when is having anger towards abusive people a lack of empathy? I could not believe she would say this! Absolute hogwash.

I will be terminating therapy with this therapist immediately and letting her know this was the deal breaker - never have I been told I have a lack of empathy for venting about abuse! UNBELIEVABLE.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

If it wasn't true, you'd say something like, "Nope. That's not it; that doesn't make sense." Instead, you freak sky-high: projection, malpractice, absolute hogwash, deal breaker. The lady doth protesteth too much, methinks. I pay careful attention to the answer which lies within the manner of response to a suggestion or accusation, and the very manner of your response suggests she sank your battleship.

[ArtleyWilkins]

Therapist doesn't sound like a winner, so moving on to a different therapist, if that is your plan, is probably a good idea.

I kind of agree a bit with Lefty though. Again, not saying the therapist is right; don't think that at all. However, your reaction also seems a bit out of proportion. Lefty's suggestions about simply replying, "No. That's not the problem here. What you are saying doesn't make sense. Can you explain what you are meaning by that because it sounds very judgmental," and then entering into a discussion about it would be a bit more proportional. I still wouldn't go back to see her, but the level of anger, if that had been me the way you describe your reaction, would have meant something else was going on there and I,honestly, wouldn't have been truly hearing everything clearly because my hair would have been on fire. It's hard to think straight or listen accurately when I am certain my hair is on fire.

But yeah, the therapist may have been trying to discuss that reaction but did a piss poor job of approaching the issue. I'd definitely move on.

How long have you been seeing this therapist for?

I wouldn’t ignore how you are responding to the therapist or her opinions. If you don’t like how she expresses herself or if you don’t feel like she likes you or is supportive enough - make a change now. Better to find someone you are compatible with (or can at least work with without any initial up front anger). Therapy is hard enough without personality clashes.

[HD7970GHZ]

Thank you all for the responses. I didn't take time to read them until now.

I just wanted to add that the reason it bothered me so much is that it was so unbelievably false and relates to past trauma in therapy. I have tremendous empathy, in fact it can get me into trouble sometimes and I have been exploited and harmed because of it. Looking back I should have tried harder to challenge her but I was afraid to - this is a product of trauma in therapy and a typical Complex PTSD fawn response - trying NOT to rock her boat for fear that she may harm me. This is my fault and I am trying to gently test the waters and stand up for myself in situations like these. I hope she can understand that rewarding me for challenging someone is exactly what I need to heal. Penalizing this behavior risks re-traumatization.

I was told once in by a therapist that I needed to express my anger in therapy - so I did - I was immediately terminated. Penalizing me after giving me permission was incredibly traumatic - shame for feeling and expressing anger is exactly what I experienced in childhood despite every right to be upset, but needless to say, all of this was linked to past trauma in therapy and that is why it bothered me so much.

I have continued seeing the same therapist and have hit several road blocks and MANY red flags. (Which is to be expected considering my past abuse in therapy). Despite this, I have continued seeing her because I don't believe she is being intentionally harmful. I have chalked it up to an inevitable process of learning how to effectively treat me as a survivor of therapy trauma without knowing my history or traumas. She is doing a near impossible job in creating a safe therapeutic space, considering what I have been through in past therapy. I have to give her some wiggle room to make mistakes and forgive her in the process, otherwise I will run away from every therapist. I empathize with her a lot because I believe she wants to help but she is fallible and dealing with a fairly complex client (not bragging).

After pointing out red flags and challenging her a bit and letting her know how she makes me feel - she has learned to communicate better with me. In fact, in our interactions she has brought up Highly Sensitive Persons and she recently shared an incredible website:

hsperson.com

Turns out Highly Sensitive Persons resonates a lot with me and is also correlated with high degrees of empathy; which I have. I think she figured this out through further interactions and it shows me she is on the right track.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

we are only getting one side of the story...not the therapists side as well. not saying you are lying but sometimes going into therapy is a charged situation and the responses you get from the therapist and what you "hear" are two different things.

yea you might be missing empathy for people whose job it is to talk folks off the ledge...and maybe they weren't super nice to you, or gave you rainbows and hugs and jellybeans or what ever you felt you needed at the time, but instead, offered you what you really needed. only perhaps you weren't in a place to KNOW that because you were calling a suicide/help line. usually when most reach that point, clear thinking isn't a strong point. perhaps they offered clear, precise points of things to do. you didn't like it and they were then awful.

not everyone is going to respond to a crisis help line the same way. the responders do their best with what they have....their goal is to keep you alive and to judge if more response is needed to do that. that takes a toll.

you were a caller who may not have got the warm fuzzy rainbow response they wanted but obviously what ever you got worked because you are still here to write and complain about services offered. sorry I agree with your therapist altho I probably would have addressed it differently .

[susannahsays]

Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ

Penalizing me after giving me permission was incredibly traumatic - shame for feeling and expressing anger is exactly what I experienced in childhood despite every right to be upset, but needless to say, all of this was linked to past trauma in therapy and that is why it bothered me so much.

Are you equating her saying it sounded like you lacked empathy for the crisis line people with penalizing you? That seems sort of interesting. I understand why that might have hurt your feelings, especially since you pride yourself on being an empath. I really don't like when anybody says I am lacking a trait in relation to some situation, when the trait is something I value highly and think I am naturally good at - and it is upsetting whether the person is right or wrong.

I guess I'm just curious how an observation is punitive. I'm not disagreeing, just trying to understand.

I hope she can understand that rewarding me for challenging someone is exactly what I need to heal.

I'm also unclear about this. Did you actually challenge someone, or do you mean the venting? I have no idea, I'm just wondering because from my personal observations, venting isn't a stepping stone to being able to actually confront people. Venting is inversely proportional to assertiveness irl (again, just from my own observations). You might need to spell out for your therapist if you see the venting as part of your improvement, especially if she hasn't known you very long and won't recognize if you weren't previously critical of people who had wronged you.

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by resurgam

we are only getting one side of the story...not the therapists side as well. not saying you are lying but sometimes going into therapy is a charged situation and the responses you get from the therapist and what you "hear" are two different things.

yea you might be missing empathy for people whose job it is to talk folks off the ledge...and maybe they weren't super nice to you, or gave you rainbows and hugs and jellybeans or what ever you felt you needed at the time, but instead, offered you what you really needed. only perhaps you weren't in a place to KNOW that because you were calling a suicide/help line. usually when most reach that point, clear thinking isn't a strong point. perhaps they offered clear, precise points of things to do. you didn't like it and they were then awful.

not everyone is going to respond to a crisis help line the same way. the responders do their best with what they have....their goal is to keep you alive and to judge if more response is needed to do that. that takes a toll.

you were a caller who may not have got the warm fuzzy rainbow response they wanted but obviously what ever you got worked because you are still here to write and complain about services offered. sorry I agree with your therapist altho I probably would have addressed it differently .

Hi Resurgam,

Thank you for sharing your insight. But I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

In regards to the bold: that is the most invalidating thing I could possibly hear, but I welcome differing opinions. You are stating that it was a matter of my perception and my mental illness that is the problem - not that distress lines are capable of being imperfect and causing retraumatization / irreparable harm. I completely disagree with your comment. My therapist was assuming that my anger towards ineffective distress lines is a matter of lack of empathy, when in fact the distress line failed to offer empathy and so did my therapist. But I appreciate your opinion nonetheless. You say you are only hearing my side of the story - this is the entire story. I have not withheld any information as I am seeking objective opinions about whether or not my therapist was appropriate in saying this. I welcome your opinion but I disagree.

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by susannahsays

Are you equating her saying it sounded like you lacked empathy for the crisis line people with penalizing you? That seems sort of interesting. I understand why that might have hurt your feelings, especially since you pride yourself on being an empath. I really don't like when anybody says I am lacking a trait in relation to some situation, when the trait is something I value highly and think I am naturally good at - and it is upsetting whether the person is right or wrong.

I guess I'm just curious how an observation is punitive. I'm not disagreeing, just trying to understand.

I'm also unclear about this. Did you actually challenge someone, or do you mean the venting? I have no idea, I'm just wondering because from my personal observations, venting isn't a stepping stone to being able to actually confront people. Venting is inversely proportional to assertiveness irl (again, just from my own observations). You might need to spell out for your therapist if you see the venting as part of your improvement, especially if she hasn't known you very long and won't recognize if you weren't previously critical of people who had wronged you.

Hi Sussannahsays,

I really appreciated your response and insight. I feel you understand the reason why it bothers me so much. I am happy you can see that. My therapist didn't mean this in a mean way - it just really shook me and indicated she didn't have a solid understanding of me quite yet.

The part about challenging my therapist is hard to do because I am so afraid of the therapeutic dynamic now from past truamas. It is valid to be afraid - but I realize not everyone is the same. I am usually passive, submissive, pliant, maliable and overly kind in relationships and I tend to teach people that I will put up with abuse and stick around. I want to break this cycle and start setting boundaries again so I can be respected and maintain healthy relationships and avoid potential abuses. It is a pattern I have been stuck in for years. But it is so hard to be assertive because my worst fears are abandonment, rejection, retraumatization etc.

I would hope my therapist recognizes this and welcomes boundaries and literally rewards me for setting them. If I am penalized - my fears could override and I could become pliant and submissive again to avoid potential abuse / abandonment - which in and of itself could repeat the trauma.

Does that make more sense? I didn't really do a good job explaining it before.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

[susannahsays]

Yes, that makes sense. I hope you are able to communicate your expectations and that there is a satisfactory resolution.

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by susannahsays

Yes, that makes sense. I hope you are able to communicate your expectations and that there is a satisfactory resolution.

Thank you

[Mopey]

You know, HD.......... , I've been thinking about this as it's being discussed again lately, and I wonder: Is it possible she was being ironic with you when she first said that? You know, sort of an attempt at humor?

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by Mopey

You know, HD.......... , I've been thinking about this as it's being discussed again lately, and I wonder: Is it possible she was being ironic with you when she first said that? You know, sort of an attempt at humor?

No, unfortunately she was absolutely serious.

[Mopey]

Oh dear. Not good.