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Grand Magnate
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#21
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I'm thinking that the deep dissatisfaction is the lack of respect -- therapists repeating the lack of respect (and internal questions/solutions about how to cope with that) from early in my life. How to get what you never had? How can you even know what you never had? I think I get inklings of something sometimes. . .but that's about all, right now. |
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Xynesthesia2
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#22
Okay, i read the whole thread (thru post 20). I think it was Xyn who brought up the practice of "practicing" expressing difficult emotions with t but stated it would be without consequence. That was never my intention with the practice of practicing.
The goal of practicing, for me, is for the client to learn how to express and deal with uncomfortable emotions - say jealousy or anger - with another person AND not blow up the relationship. How to keep the other person's feelings in mind while you are expressing yours. And right, the other person here, the t, is not REALLY invested in this relationship - they go home to their own real life - but therapy is kinda like playing house - even five years olds know you have to play nice if you want to keep your playmate. There are always consequences. Who said it was okay to go nuts? If this is not the issue, then please clarify. |
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LonesomeTonight, Xynesthesia2
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#23
The books on childhood emotional neglect that have come out in the last decade or so have been VERY helpful in this regard. Jonice Webb i think is a name.
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#24
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I don’t recall so much as raising my voice to my therapist (minus the last session when all gloves were off). She simply didn’t like the content of my criticism and complaints, and rather than listen, remained in constant defense mode. My memories were questioned, she replied in condescending tones, mocked me, cut off listening/caring, shot “I dare you to bring that up” stares when she could tell where a convo was going and so on. When I was ‘slipping’ into hopeless crying in sessions because I felt invalidated, she used the opportunity to label and judge. She needed to maintain an authoritarian atmosphere in which a client just didn’t disrespect a superior in that way. How dare I have the nerve to complain after all the good therapy she was giving me? |
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#25
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But looking at it thru the window of practicing a relationship, what was going on at the above point? What were you each trying to say to or get from the other person? I feel thats where the almost literally mind-bending change comes in therapy, like doing one more push-up or whatever when you think you cant. |
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#26
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I can’t fathom what space she was speaking from. When I am in a good mindset, I feel she cared about me too much and wanted to hurt me as much as I what I was saying was hurting her. Other therapists I consulted with admitted they had no idea what she was trying to accomplish but that it sounded like she needed therapy too. One even recommended going back and bringing in a third counselor to help patch things up (cue the laugh track!). I’m an optimist but the mind-bending change you are referencing was not going to happen under her care. Actually, the change point was tapping into my own agency and realizing I am worth more than the treatment I was getting. Saying enough to years and years of suffering with no improvement and figuring out how to make myself happy instead of waiting for a mind bending change to do that. Very powerful. Last edited by Anonymous41422; May 14, 2019 at 04:03 PM.. |
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LonesomeTonight, unaluna
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Grand Magnate
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#27
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So, then, I thought therapy was inviting them into the room, into the interactions. I worked very hard to try to get in touch with, and accept the dissociated whatever-they-are -- feelings, demons, parts, what have you. And then the therapists couldn't tolerate them -- or their expressions, as best I could contain them and as best as they -- or the adapted I on behalf of them -- could find words. I learned to tolerate my mother's rage, because I had to. I can numb out. Other people can rage at me and -- no big deal. Not so for their disapproval and shaming. So, I thought I was "doing the right thing" when I expressed my emotions, at first primitively and later as civilly as I could manage, without the dissociated anger/rage or whatever it is going away (which I can usually make it do). If your experience in life isn't like this -- and most people's isn't -- then, OK, I get it that you can't/don't understand it. Neither did my therapists. But I'm 71 years old and if you are going to try to tell me I don't operate like this, well, go ahead . . .But it really doesn't make sense to me, finally, to accept your view of me and and how I must operate, because it is like how you and most people you know operate, over my own. I HAVE gotten that much out of all those years of therapy and self-reflection. I asked the therapists for years for something like a "social play pen" where I could learn social interactions. Nothing, it doesn't exist. |
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koru_kiwi, SlumberKitty
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#28
this is such a good discussion HT.
funny enough, in regards to this topic and my ex-T, who often would react with defensiveness when i shared my anger about him (usually in the form of frustration or disappointment) is now becoming certified in Intensive Short-Term Dynamic Psychotherapy. when he shared this with me (some months after i had ended therapy) i googled it because i knew nothing about it and found it quite ironic when i came across this article: Intensive Short-Term Dynamic Psychotherapy Makes Patients Want to Murder Their Therapists - VICE after some of the things i have read about ISTDP, i'm not quite sure how i feel about him learning this technique...will it make him a better T and more competent to handling challenging situations with clients??? or will it just continue to feed into his covert narcissistic needs further??? all i know, is that i'm thankful i got out of there when i did because i definilty know i would not have been keen for him to try this kind of modality with me and the issues that i brought to therapy. |
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#29
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I didn't feel murderous rage, but you could say I had a breakdown as my dissociated parts all came out. This was in the middle of graduate school, so I barely passed. I left traumatized and have been in therapy ever since. I am not sure that therapy is ethical. Really sharp and put together therapists may be able to handle it, but definitely not a T who can't handle some anger. |
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#30
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i suspect my ex-T was getting interested or already starting his training in the technique a few months before i ended with him. i had a quite odd and different experince with him when i was in the middle of trying to process some aspect of my early CSA truama by the hands of a neighbor and out of the blue he made a random comment that felt manipulating and as if he was trying to completly steer the abuse conversation to focus on me being angry at my parents for failing me and letting me down. i felt i was really in the moment with processing the sexual abuse memory, and feelings that were coming up, i felt safe enough to do so, and then out of the blue it felt like he literally side swiped me to change the direction by 180 degrees. i felt i lost a lot of trust for him during and after that moment. turns out, that was the session that set me in motion to work towards ending for sure. i realised that the trust was not there...he didn't trust me to trust my own process and i didn't trust him to not mess it up again because he had his own agenda to fulfill. |
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SlumberKitty
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Grand Magnate
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#31
Agree the system is insane.
I now see how pointless it was to direct anger or other emotion at a therapist. It's an artificial relationship. If the therapist dispenses a simulated, mechanical, clinical version of "acceptance"... so what? Seems irrelevant. Might as well get angry with a tree. |
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Anonymous45127, here today, koru_kiwi, Xynesthesia2
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Grand Magnate
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#32
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Thanks. I'll think of a tree next time I think of the last therapist or any of the others. |
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Grand Magnate
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#33
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I had cut off expressing anger in my family before I started school and didn't express it with friends. I didn't initiate anybody into knowing those parts of me existed -- except as I have done here on PC, as you noted. Didn't have any close friends either -- I guess when I experienced differences or potential differences I mostly remained politely civil, and somewhat distant. So, never having had a relationship where the angry part of me was accepted, I did not have the chance to learn how to do it in real life -- and, again, not having had that I had no clue that a therapist might not be able to handle it. Until they couldn't, and the relationship ruptured. And I had no clue why that would have happened, because someone expressing intense anger at me would NOT cause the relationship to rupture. It's like Starry_Night wrote, and something koru_kiwi seemed to feel as well:: Quote:
I don't think it was unreasonable for me to expect this from therapy, though, given their hype. Last edited by here today; May 16, 2019 at 07:59 AM.. |
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koru_kiwi, susannahsays, Xynesthesia2
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Grand Magnate
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#34
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