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Default May 17, 2019 at 04:03 AM
  #41
It makes me sad to see how many people share my experience. I didn't expect so many of you relating to this. I was hoping I will get more messages that will try to shift my outlook to a more positive one.
I am still in therapy and I want to be clear that my T is all a therapist should be: patient, empathic, curious, inisightful, reliable and invloved etc but its the setting that makes it so damaging. Rationally I understand the concept of learning skills that will help me deal with real life situations in a safe place where I can explore whatever I want. Emotionally it doesn't work like that. I don't have a switch that goes off after 50 minutes. This is the problem. It creates this nice cosy space but with so many limiations. I think we crave what we can't have. All those posts about people not being able to wait a week till next session. I have this happening to me all the time. In any other relationship you ring and arrange meetings based on the schedules and needs of both people. In therapy we get cut almost in the middle of the sentence when time is up. When else can we have no (or almost none) consideration for the other persons frame of mind, experiences of the day, problems etc. and expect them to be fully focused on us each and every time.? Why is any kind of healthy curiosity about the person we are so open with so shameful? Why is asking questions about the therapist life labbled as avoiding own issues rather than well... an interaction of 2 people. And the therapist sharing something personal? why is it such a big deal? All this gives makes this whole thing wrong. Only the most stable of us can really understand this as a trained person providing a service and everyone else gets enmashed in the pretense of a relationship. because thats what it imitates.
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Default May 17, 2019 at 05:58 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Forgetmenot07 View Post
I dont think most therapist dislike clients or say things that they really dont mean but they use techniques that create a false sense of emotional intimacy even if its well intensioned. This only exist when both parties are emotionally involved. When and where else are such personal and intense interaction limited to 50 minutes slots of a very specific time and date?
I totally agree with the part about it being hard because of the limited time and schedule. So much of what we deal with is outside the office ehrtr there are unrcpectrf triggers, etc.

For me the therapy office is a safe place where I can take all my masks off. Where I can control the topics znd not worry that the other person being hurt or not understanding what I am saying. I can be emotional without everybody else around me being uncomfortable and I can even disassociate without the other person totally freaking out. Problem is being able to get to the vulnerable in that limited time and putting the lid back on.

I know there have been times both my Ts experienced emotional reactions to what I have told but were able to show very limited signs and know how to deal with it on their own

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Default May 17, 2019 at 06:06 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Forgetmenot07 View Post
It makes me sad to see how many people share my experience. I didn't expect so many of you relating to this. I was hoping I will get more messages that will try to shift my outlook to a more positive one.
I am still in therapy and I want to be clear that my T is all a therapist should be: patient, empathic, curious, inisightful, reliable and invloved etc but its the setting that makes it so damaging. Rationally I understand the concept of learning skills that will help me deal with real life situations in a safe place where I can explore whatever I want. Emotionally it doesn't work like that. I don't have a switch that goes off after 50 minutes. This is the problem. It creates this nice cosy space but with so many limiations. I think we crave what we can't have. All those posts about people not being able to wait a week till next session. I have this happening to me all the time. In any other relationship you ring and arrange meetings based on the schedules and needs of both people. In therapy we get cut almost in the middle of the sentence when time is up. When else can we have no (or almost none) consideration for the other persons frame of mind, experiences of the day, problems etc. and expect them to be fully focused on us each and every time.? Why is any kind of healthy curiosity about the person we are so open with so shameful? Why is asking questions about the therapist life labbled as avoiding own issues rather than well... an interaction of 2 people. And the therapist sharing something personal? why is it such a big deal? All this gives makes this whole thing wrong. Only the most stable of us can really understand this as a trained person providing a service and everyone else gets enmashed in the pretense of a relationship. because thats what it imitates.
I couldn't see a s therspist who was totally closed off and shamed me for asking questions about them. They have always been pretty open.

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Default May 17, 2019 at 06:18 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Forgetmenot07 View Post
It makes me sad to see how many people share my experience. I didn't expect so many of you relating to this. I was hoping I will get more messages that will try to shift my outlook to a more positive one.
I am glad you feel heard on this board. I think the internet is a big places and it isn't that difficult to find people who share your perspective, whatever it may be. Have you had an honest conversation with your T about how you feel about this? Because I think the one thing that ties useful therapy together through many stories I've heard here, it's honesty. And because at some level your experience and the fact you're still in therapy don't make sense. I think much can be learned from looking inward and understanding what shapes your experience rather than pointing outward and blaming external forces.
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Default May 17, 2019 at 06:25 AM
  #45
I do not believe you can pay someone to care. Too, just because we only see our therapists for 50 minutes, that does not mean they do not think about us, even dream about us; consider our lives and situations/difficulties when not with us. Aren't you reminded of or don't you think about friends and loved ones when you are not with them?

If the relationship is important to you, it is an important relationship! Who you love and hate is about you, not the person being loved or despised. A caring relationship such as with a therapist is a good model and how we relate to them and what we see/learn in their responses can help across the board.

I'll never forget the day I realized, from my therapist's constantly calm demeanor, that the sky was not falling It was either my therapist was "crazy" and did not realize the danger we were all in or that my constant anxiety was misplaced; I had to choose. I wanted what the therapist had. The looming clouds eventually drifted on/apart and now it's pleasant, sunny days most of the time :-)

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Default May 17, 2019 at 06:40 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by goatee View Post
Just reading this thread and wondering. How did you manage to stop caring about your Ts? How did you un-attach when you were so attached? I think I’m too deep in now....
I have been staying away from PC but I really was drawn to this thread and wanted to comment on your post.

I have not stopped caring. However, I've stepped back and looked at this differently (distance from therapy helped) and realized he no longer cares about me. I may be a random passing thought now and then but the money stopped, so did the real care I thought he had. I can't help that I think of him daily still and think of things I'd love to say or do for him all the time...just because.... but I have to put it in perspective. It's over.

I will hopefully get to a place I don't think of him much anymore.... and that I no longer care either. I will always love him though.

The best thing for me while I WAS in therapy, was to set my own boundaries. Try to focus on anything but him or therapy, it as hard at times but when I realized it was over taking my life, I had to. I felt like I was losing my sanity.

Going back to therapy was never something I wanted but I didn't know how to deal with the loss when it became too much but I was able to remain detached with 2 different T's and it was fantastic. Leaving therapy was easy this time. I didn't care about them in the slightest. I didn't feel cared about either, so it was a very different situation and it helped me.

I don't think it's wrong to care.... but just try to get some perspective on it all, the limits of it, how it's all different when the money stops, things like that. What helped me really shift was putting myself first..... realizing, my own sanity, my happiness, ME in general, was far more important than therapy or some man I paid to spend time with me.

I hope you are able to get to a place that works for you. It's not a bad topic to bring up in therapy. I do realize everyone is different and will see things differently or want things differently. Some still believe they care long after therapy is over and if that helps them get through the day, so be it. At the end of the day, I realized how much therapy took over my life and how much I needed to find myself again because I only have 1 shot at living my best life.

All the best to you.

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Default May 17, 2019 at 07:01 AM
  #47
I believe there are a lot of good therapy stories on this forum, but a thread like this is going to bring bad experiences out of the woodwork. This is a triggering topic and often causes a rift between those who have felt harmed vs those who’ve been able to get enormous benefit out of therapy - though I think over time we have learned to be patient and civil to each other.

I think there are themes with those of us who have had terrible experiences. For me, it was throwing my whole heart and existence into it and expecting reciprocity - which wasn’t realistic. I also had a therapist who wasn’t experienced with managing intense transference... among other issues.

I would challenge anyone to look at themselves and look at therapy and see if it’s truly worth the time and energy commitment. Often it can be. Other times, it can be a painful, expensive road to nowhere. I think it’s helpful to make these kind of assessments over longer periods of time (perhaps a few months) rather than impulsively. It’s always valid to take breaks and look around at what else is out there.

Hope and healing to everyone who is struggling in therapy and outside ❤️
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Default May 17, 2019 at 07:16 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Anne2.0 View Post
I am glad you feel heard on this board. I think the internet is a big places and it isn't that difficult to find people who share your perspective, whatever it may be. Have you had an honest conversation with your T about how you feel about this? Because I think the one thing that ties useful therapy together through many stories I've heard here, it's honesty. And because at some level your experience and the fact you're still in therapy don't make sense. I think much can be learned from looking inward and understanding what shapes your experience rather than pointing outward and blaming external forces.
Did I try being honest about my thoughts with the therapist? Yes, over the 5 years there have been times when tired to discuss it from different perspectives as my outlook was shifting. I think this post vents the frustration of a specific circumtance when I don't feel heard and understood so after looking inwardly and trying to figure out what is going on for me I had to take a look at the bigger picuture of therapy. It has indeed been done in this order: first look inwardly and talk with T and only then try to see the paterns from others peoples experiences ex. this forum.
Why am I still in therapy? Probably because I want to resolve it, because I want to change my persperctive, because I want a breakthrough when I will see the limitations I described as an advantage or simply a fact and not something painful.
This is where I hit a dead end. Its precisely because of what I talked about here that I can't have this very transparent, honest conversation with T (of course I am aware that I have to take responisibity for my actions) To me trying to talk in a very blant manner is met with indifference or lack of emotional involvment and this already is a problem. The fact that we both can't talk like equals, that we can't share our frustrations without inhibitions, that there is a powel imbalance make it very difficult and unfair.
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Default May 17, 2019 at 07:16 AM
  #49
I was thinking about this this morning and my view point has changed since reading this thread and also since reading a few things that @BudFox has posted. My initial feelings were "these people are the minority, there is no way that therapy is this harmful" so my apologies if I have ever said anything that has minimized anyone's experiences.
I think therapy can be both bad and good, and I think its possible to be bad and good at the same time.

A therapist can be very empathetic and soothing and a great listener but be lacking in the ability to help a client be less reliant or more independent of the therapist. I guess maybe I mean is some therapists know that a client is relying on them way too much, even borderline codependent and choose or enable the person to be dependent on the therapist in a way that is unhealthy. I think the good qualities of a therapist should not be discounted but in perspective sometimes a client may need to address their personal relationships more directly and work on getting their needs met outside of the therapy setting. Of course the inappropriate relationships between a person and their therapist are obviously a bad thing. I feel strongly when I hear of a client and therapist dating or falling in love. Yes, I know it happens, people fall in love all the time but I cant help but wonder if there is a power imbalance going on, or at least an undercurrent of a client being taken advantage of in some way.

Then there are the horrible cases of sexual abuse, assault and manipulation that do so much damage to clients. And often they have no recourse, or when they file formal complaints they are discounted or-God forbid- their records do not adequately reflect what is actually going on in the therapy sessions.
I sincerely hope I never offended anyone by my lack of empathy or validation.

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Default May 17, 2019 at 08:15 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by PurpleMirrors3 View Post
I went through this cycle for many years. I was living in a fantasy world. Eventually my self respect was worth more.
My ex therapist once actually told me that I was living in a fantasy world about my relationship with her. It was a devastating comment to me. I didn’t want to believe her though. I told myself she had just been speaking in anger. But deep down, I had heard what she said and it changed my heart inside, broke a piece of me.
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Default May 17, 2019 at 08:40 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Forgetmenot07 View Post
It makes me sad to see how many people share my experience. I didn't expect so many of you relating to this. I was hoping I will get more messages that will try to shift my outlook to a more positive one.
I am still in therapy and I want to be clear that my T is all a therapist should be: patient, empathic, curious, inisightful, reliable and invloved etc but its the setting that makes it so damaging. Rationally I understand the concept of learning skills that will help me deal with real life situations in a safe place where I can explore whatever I want. Emotionally it doesn't work like that. I don't have a switch that goes off after 50 minutes. This is the problem. It creates this nice cosy space but with so many limiations. I think we crave what we can't have. All those posts about people not being able to wait a week till next session. I have this happening to me all the time. In any other relationship you ring and arrange meetings based on the schedules and needs of both people. In therapy we get cut almost in the middle of the sentence when time is up. When else can we have no (or almost none) consideration for the other persons frame of mind, experiences of the day, problems etc. and expect them to be fully focused on us each and every time.? Why is any kind of healthy curiosity about the person we are so open with so shameful? Why is asking questions about the therapist life labbled as avoiding own issues rather than well... an interaction of 2 people. And the therapist sharing something personal? why is it such a big deal? All this gives makes this whole thing wrong. Only the most stable of us can really understand this as a trained person providing a service and everyone else gets enmashed in the pretense of a relationship. because thats what it imitates.
Yes at different times threads discussing negative experiences and other general T bashing have been very triggering for me. I recognize for me, I need the illusion part of therapy for it to work.

When I entered therapy I was very suicidal as a result of a life altering event. I was shattered and everything that used to hold me together was gone. For that first year, there were many times I thought I was crazy for the different feelings I was having about therapy, my therapist, and the process. How could I have such strong feelings for a person I don't really know and so on? I struggled with many of the things you wrote about - the time limits, the weirdness about asking about her and her life, the one sided nature of therapy, never knowing what the person behind the role actually thought, and like you said this shame/guilt or whatever feeling about having the curiosity about her. About the 2nd year, we increased my sessions to 2 x week. Prior to that, I'd have session and be all kinds of mess for a few days, then start packing it all away and have the lid on it by time the next session happened. Moving to 2x a week allowed me to stay "raw" enough (open enough) or whatever... to bring up these topics and talk about them. We talked about opening and closing of sessions; about my asking about her and truly wanting an honest answer; me seeing her as Dr. S - therapist and that being different than E (her first name) the person; we started talking about what I imaged she was like; and stuff like that. There was lots of embarrassment for me to talk about these things and I struggled hard with the unspoken rules of therapy. I am a rule based person and some of the ones I was living by were ones I created. Ultimately, I came to the place where I was ok with the one-sided nature of the relationship. In fact I grew to depend on it. I accepted, craved, and demanded that my time be about me and my T be whatever I made her out to be (in my head). It was and still is the only time where I, like others have said, can take off all the masks and if I can allow myself, I can let all of the parts of me have space to exist and feel welcomed/wanted by another person and hopefully that will lead to them feeling wanted by me.

During that time, I missed her terribly between sessions and struggled to leave at the end of sessions. There was a lot of sadness, grief, longing... and such... and huge maternal transference. After that 2nd year and much discussion, we moved to 3x week. Some thought this was insane, that I was already too focused on her, I was either being delusional or I was acting on an addiction. What happened by moving to 3x week was a lessening of my attention about her. I still miss and thought about her between sessions, my out of session contacts dropped down to about 1 x month rather than 1-2 week. The aching and longing was significantly less. We have just completed this 3rd year. There has been talk about what things would look like at the end of this year, both dropping back down to 2 x a week so that I have time to pursue other interests and increasing to 4x week to move even more into the psychoanalytical methodology.

We have just weathered our biggest rupture yet and it took me taking a 6wk analysis break while still seeing her. In any other relationship, I would have walked away - that's part of what I'm trying to change about me; to learn how to open back up in an relationship once I've been hurt within the relationship. I feel that the only way to sort out my behaviors/responses and everything around major ruptures is to experience them with her and with others; to go through the process. More time with her equals more time for these type of experiences to occur and as much as I hate them and don't want to feel this way. I know that I cannot think my way through them, logically I understand that the other person didn't do x or mean y; intellectually I can process through the events and appropriately assess cause/effect, blame; and so on. What I can't seem to do is feel what I need to feel to work through these incidents with another person. That implicit learning stuff of social creatures.

Therapy is BS. I don't disagree with you there. For me, I have found the BS, facade, illusion, fantasy (whatever word you want to use) elements to be a necessary part. I believe that for some, it is in that suspense of disbelief that the neural pathways are able to become pliable such that narratives are able to be altered enough resulting in core changes to a person rather than strictly behavioral/habitual. (Or so I believe at this moment in time, all subject to how I feel after the next rupture cycle.) I also believe that this is not the only way to make changes in our lives.

BTW - there is nothing wrong about wanting to know about another person, nothing wrong with wanting to call the person, to be considerate about another person's frame of mind and experiences or problems... all these things are actually good things.

Has your T stated that your curiosity is shameful, have they stated that wanting to or actually asking questions about their personal life is some how inconsistent with the intimate nature of the therapeutic relationship? My T has made it clear to me that these are completely normal and natural wants/desires while at the same time, not really sharing about herself. My T also allows between session contact, in my case she encourages it. She response to my emails/voicemails when she has time to respond, almost always within 24 hours. Does your T allow for between session contact? If not, have you discussed with her the struggles you have around wanting/missing her? Have you discussed other ways of possibly feeling closer to him while away from her - if that is what you want?

Last edited by Elio; May 17, 2019 at 09:08 AM..
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Default May 17, 2019 at 08:40 AM
  #52
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My ex therapist once actually told me that I was living in a fantasy world about my relationship with her. It was a devastating comment to me. I didn’t want to believe her though. I told myself she had just been speaking in anger. But deep down, I had heard what she said and it changed my heart inside, broke a piece of me.
I am so, so sorry!

I’ve had a few similar experiences. One in particular changed me and descimated a piece of my inner child.

During ‘the end’ I confessed a very specific, unique, special connection I felt I shared with my therapist. She replied that she felt that way with all of her clients. I cried, then went home and threw up. I’ve never been the same. To this day, I question how she was able to sit and watch my response.
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Default May 17, 2019 at 08:45 AM
  #53
Creating this fantasy world should be stopped in the bud PurpleMirrors. The therapist should address it while it develops not after its too difficult to control. There are signs of dependecy that the therapist should pick up on and maybe cool down.
Surprisingly it came up in my therpy as well but I still dont understand what she ment by 'fantasy world'
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Default May 17, 2019 at 08:52 AM
  #54
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Why am I still in therapy? Probably because I want to resolve it, because I want to change my persperctive, because I want a breakthrough when I will see the limitations I described as an advantage or simply a fact and not something painful.
This is where I hit a dead end. Its precisely because of what I talked about here that I can't have this very transparent, honest conversation with T (of course I am aware that I have to take responisibity for my actions) To me trying to talk in a very blant manner is met with indifference or lack of emotional involvment and this already is a problem. The fact that we both can't talk like equals, that we can't share our frustrations without inhibitions, that there is a powel imbalance make it very difficult and unfair.
Yes, this can be hard and a hurtle I still have yet to really address. It is a part of what was this last rupture. I do see these moments as times where things can become a healing moment, misattuned moment, a reenactment - or just plain damaging. Have you done the meta talking about this yet where you talk about what is you need from her when you have these types of discussions? What was her response?
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Default May 17, 2019 at 08:58 AM
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Creating this fantasy world should be stopped in the bud PurpleMirrors. The therapist should address it while it develops not after its too difficult to control. There are signs of dependecy that the therapist should pick up on and maybe cool down.
Surprisingly it came up in my therpy as well but I still dont understand what she ment by 'fantasy world'
I think that depends on orientation. My therapist was of the ‘good enough mother’ modality and went no-holds-barred stoking unmet childhood needs and encouraging a totally inappropriate level of dependency. Many therapists publicly write that therapy only works when a client has a deep level of dependency that can last a very long time.

Therapists don’t know the impact that this type of treatment can have on a person as they’re doing it. I’ve seen too many clients on this forum get abandoned or terminated when things spiral out of control.
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Default May 17, 2019 at 09:02 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by goatee View Post
My ex therapist once actually told me that I was living in a fantasy world about my relationship with her. It was a devastating comment to me. I didn’t want to believe her though. I told myself she had just been speaking in anger. But deep down, I had heard what she said and it changed my heart inside, broke a piece of me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleMirrors3 View Post
I am so, so sorry!

I’ve had a few similar experiences. One in particular changed me and descimated a piece of my inner child.

During ‘the end’ I confessed a very specific, unique, special connection I felt I shared with my therapist. She replied that she felt that way with all of her clients. I cried, then went home and threw up. I’ve never been the same. To this day, I question how she was able to sit and watch my response.
I am sorry that both of you experienced these interactions. I can see how hurtful they both are/were.

Goatee - were you ever able to address the hurt caused by her statement?

PurpleMirror, I assume since this statement was at the end, you were unable to address it with her.

I still have to see if I can get resolution to the hurtful statements my T made that resulted in our rupture.
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Default May 17, 2019 at 09:12 AM
  #57
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I am sorry that both of you experienced these interactions. I can see how hurtful they both are/were.

PurpleMirror, I assume since this statement was at the end, you were unable to address it with her.
Things were too far gone by that point. It was one of many betrayals in my mind.

Also, her attempts to explain herself always made things worse because she could not understand why a comment like that would be upsetting to someone. As an example she would sigh, roll her eyes and remind me again that I am not her only client.

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Default May 17, 2019 at 10:11 AM
  #58
Quote:
Originally Posted by goatee View Post
My ex therapist once actually told me that I was living in a fantasy world about my relationship with her. It was a devastating comment to me. I didn’t want to believe her though. I told myself she had just been speaking in anger. But deep down, I had heard what she said and it changed my heart inside, broke a piece of me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgetmenot07 View Post
Creating this fantasy world should be stopped in the bud PurpleMirrors. The therapist should address it while it develops not after its too difficult to control. There are signs of dependecy that the therapist should pick up on and maybe cool down.
Surprisingly it came up in my therpy as well but I still dont understand what she ment by 'fantasy world'
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleMirrors3 View Post
I think that depends on orientation. My therapist was of the ‘good enough mother’ modality and went no-holds-barred stoking unmet childhood needs and encouraging a totally inappropriate level of dependency. Many therapists publicly write that therapy only works when a client has a deep level of dependency that can last a very long time.

Therapists don’t know the impact that this type of treatment can have on a person as they’re doing it. I’ve seen too many clients on this forum get abandoned or terminated when things spiral out of control.
They are living in a fantasy world. Perhaps everybody lives somewhat in a fantasy world?

Maybe sometimes therapy does work, at least for some clients, with some therapists, when the client develops a deep level of dependency and can work their way out of it.

But when it goes wrong, it can go very, very wrong and be very damaging, on top of any interpersonal damage the person went into therapy with.

There needs to be much more information available to clients generally about the potential downsides of this form of treatment/therapy.
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Default May 17, 2019 at 10:13 AM
  #59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgetmenot07 View Post
This is where I hit a dead end. Its precisely because of what I talked about here that I can't have this very transparent, honest conversation with T (of course I am aware that I have to take responisibity for my actions) To me trying to talk in a very blant manner is met with indifference or lack of emotional involvment and this already is a problem.
Have you tried to confront your T about this indifference and lack of emotional involvement?

I personally don't see any reason why you couldn't talk about this situation as equals. Sure, the topic of the talk would be your feelings and your attempt to talk about your feelings and her response or non-response to that. But in principle you could confront her on a very equal level about why she is not emotionally involved with what you are talking about. Because if she is not emotionally involved, how can she even work as a psychotherapist?

Or maybe another question is, what is your definition of emotional involvement?
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Default May 17, 2019 at 10:54 AM
  #60
I wish I could reply to more or your responses personally as there are so many interesting subtopics here but I am stuck at work long hours.
Ill try a bit later but I appreciate everyones input. Didnt expect a big conversation like that.
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