My new T makes me doubt and blame myself for our bad therapeutic relationship

I´ve now seen my new T three times for evaluation sessions and she makes me feel bad about myself and she makes me feel ill at ease after seeing her. But as she points out I haven´t had work for several years and that I haven´t had a relationship I begin to doubt myself and blame myself for feeling I don´t "click" with her.

I feel that perhaps it´s all wrong with me and that this T is right, even if I at the same time has succeeded in some areas in life so it´s not that I´m all useless.

She makes me feel it´s because of my symtoms that I want a T who asks me something kind in the beginning like "how was your trip here" or similar and that my reactions and feelings about her behavior towards me are wrong.

What do you think about this?

I think that, if you can tolerate being with her, she may challenge you in ways that could end up helping you in the long run.

Doubt is not the same as certainty -- so it sounds good that you also posted about the things that you have succeeded in. Realistic life about both -- the successes as well as otherwise.

I tend to agree that it's because of your symptoms that you want a T who asks something kind in the beginning. It's certainly pleasant and other people here have T's who are like that and who seem to benefit from that.

It's not so much, IMO, that your reactions and feelings about her behavior are "wrong" as that they are/were expectations conditioned based on your early life experience. Or something like that. Nothing you can do about that, and endless years going over that stuff didn't help me move forward a whole lot.

It, or just the passage of time, has helped me see that trying to live life the "right" way and expecting other people to do the same just doesn't work in the real world in most places. It worked in my family, for awhile at least, and there may be other cultures where it works, sort of. But not in the broad diverse, cosmopolitan world that most of us live in today.

Making a shift -- is very, very desperately hard, in my experience at least. The option of staying with something that seems "right" but doesn't work. . .I don't have a lot very good to say about that option, though I followed it for many years and sometimes, habitually, still do.

I hope this therapist can work for you. I ran into what I now believe were a lot of incompetent therapists who didn't make me doubt -- but seemed outright certain that I was "wrong" and outright shamed me by their behaviour, shaming/contemptuous looks, etc. And I didn't have much good defense or contrary opinions in myself about anything good. I understand now that those behaviors were reactive, not good therapeutic practice. AND they hurt me, as you have also been hurt by therapists.

Hopefully this one will not be like that.

I tend to think it’s worth sticking with her too.

I am more concerned hearing about “love at first sight” therapeutic relationships.

This seems to minimize the chances of anything unintentionally ‘going weird’, and it’s great that she’s challenging. She might be what you need and don’t know it yet.

You both might not click but it doesn’t mean there’s fault. I totally ‘get’ the need for warmth when you’re opening up to someone, but I definitely see potential for her to be used for other purposes besides “support”.

I find it interesting that you say the therapist "makes" you feel all of these things. I personally don't think anyone can "make" us feel anything. Our feelings in response to others and our interactions with them all arise within us, because of our own experiences, beliefs, interpretations etc. Changing the wording allows for a different perspective. "When I am with…. I feel...." "When she says things like …… I feel ……" brings the control and ability to change our responses and reactions back within our own locus of control. Instead of having these feelings inflicted upon us by an other they are feelings that arise within us because of your own personal lens. We can change our own lenses. Not immediately of course, but this is something that can be examined and addressed over time.

Hey Sarah, did you ask her about the Kleenex?

It sounds like you're feeling shame. The way your T works draws all your emotions out. Shame is a yucky feeling.

But it's not about your T, I think..This his is your inner world surfacing.

Sarah, first of all: kudos for sticking it out so far with this T, even though you must be finding it tremendously difficult and challenging.

As others have pointed out already, it might not be your T who actively makes you feel bad about yourself, but it's your innermost reaction to what is or isn't happening between the two of you that makes you feel bad, in terms of feeling shame, feeling like a failure etc.


This hurts, and stings and it must feel really uncomfortable for you.

And yet, it could helpful in the long run. Since this T doesn't seem to believe in making you feel good/at ease, just for the sake of it. Instead, her approach could help you in the long run that you can make yourself feel better.

At present, in your own perception, all the power lies in the hands of your T. But in fact, you more or less hold the same power, you just haven't realized (yet). So working with this T could actually help you to discover the powers that you are holding in your own hands. And to start utilizing them.

Keep talking to her, Sarah. Do keep talking about how all of this makes you feel and the things that surface from deep inside. It might feel strange and weird and uncomfortable, but I have a feeling that this T might be able to deal with all of this stuff and help you. Not by trying to "rescue" you (like your last T might have by not staying within the formal framework of her organization), but by helping you to help yourself in the long run.

All the best, c_r

Does she make this connection between your life and "blame," or do you? Seems to me like this is her acknowledging the truth of things-- not to blame you for whatever may be happening in therapy, but to "see things as they are" (as the Buddhists say). And not because your life is "proof" of you, but because these are things to work on, a way to orient the change I think you are seeking.

If you want to get a job and have a significant relationship, I think this approach may be fruitful. Dealing with the reality of your life and how different it is from what you want it to be and how you might go about changing it is really big stuff. It's impressive you want to tackle it.

You have made comments about all your therapists about how they have said and done things wrong. That is a very front and center theme in your postings over the years. It might be a good time to see if allowing the relationship to develop naturally as opposed to trying to make it into something you want it to be might be helpful to you. I think if you can break from any kind of pattern you've engaged in the past, the world might open up for you in new ways.

You may want her to do therapy a certain way, to accommodate to you, to control how this goes. But that's not therapy. Therapy is not just about giving you pleasantries that make you feel better in the moment. Nor is it about changing the therapist. If you feel like your therapy is centered around changing what the therapist does and says, I think that's a waste of time. I don't think this is an absolute for all people and time, or even you. People in the outside world will generally not change for you, even if they love you and even if they want to. Knowing when you can ask for what you want and need versus when you have to adapt to others is a good skill in relationships. Insisting that things go your way from the outset, before you get to know someone, is unlikely to work out.

Thanks.


I see your point but at the same time so much is written about how important it is with a good therapeutic relationship and to adapt to clients. By that I don´t mean a T should do everyhing a client asks for. But in this case, as an example, she dismisses my statement about not feeling welcome by saying that "she doesn´t do smalltalk at the beginning". I told her that because I feel she´s impersonal when just saying "hello" in the beginning of a meeting and not asking me something about my trip there or similar.

Thanks.


Yes, I agree there shouldn´t be just supportive chats like with a friend but with this current T I mostly feel ill at ease with. I understand the value in getting challenged but without a good therapeutic relationship therapy will just be about issues that occurs because of her way of conducting therapy and how I react to that.

As I´ve felt bad about seeing her every three times I´ve not met with her I don´t think I´ll cope with feeling that way session after session. It´s ok to get challenged when there´s already trust based on earlier sessions but not before.

Thanks. No, I didn´t. I brought my own Kleenex after that first session but didn´t use them. I´ve cried during both the second and the third session but not so much that I really needed a Kleenex. I let my tears run over my cheeks and it was very visible to her.

Even if I had begun to cry a lot I had let my tears fall on my shirt or trousers or such just to demonstrate the dumbness in not offering a Kleenex. Yesterday I left with tears on my face and that doesn´t bother me so much but it felt good to show her I rather leave that way than taking a Kleenex from her "hidden" Kleenex box.

Thanks cinnamon. Yes, I don´t think the treats me that much different from other clients of hers. But I don´t see it as a good start to a therapy as it makes me negative and shut towards her.

I don´t buy all of the reasoning around the benefit from a T who doesn´t make a client feel at ease as doing that is part of creating trust. I feel this T uses frustrating and provoking methods just to see how clients react. Like she didn´t stand up or shook my hand yesterday as she did the first two sessions.

I see through that kind of actions and I just ignore her back by leaving her room without saying goodbye nor looking at her. She said "goodbye" when I walked towards her door and I then replied but she for sure noticed my reaction.

As I´ve brought up I don´t feel welcome and she mostly just brushed that off by saying she "doesn´t do smalltalk in the beginning of a session" I don´t feel there´s room for any true exploration. Not besides "I´m the therapist and I decide how therapy is done".

Your thinking seems really distorted to me, and your interpretations serve to push others away and keep your distance. Which is fine if that's what you want, but if you want closer relationships to people where you don't always see everything in the worst possible light (which tends to make others not want to interact with you), you're going about this in the wrong way.

Telling a person where the Kleenex box is isn't hiding it, nor is this a dumb way to go about helping another person. "I'm giving you the information you need to get the Kleenex for yourself." I think it's a way to treat someone as a competent person who doesn't need the box shoved into her face in order to know that it's there. Maybe there isn't any symbolism here, or maybe it's just lost on you. But I think your attitude and perspective is the problem in the room.

Thanks. She hasn´t said she blames me but she refers to symptoms and diagnoses which makes me feel that there´s no point in trying to argument with her or to try to make her understand how I feel.

Also, I already know about my life situation and I´m not in therapy to feel even worse about it. Through the years I have had a very limited opportunity to change therapists and in several cases I was just given one through mental health care. I think that matters a lot when it comes to feeling disappointment in several of those contacts as I have been forced to stay. That for one thing due to our sick leave rules.


In a way I´m asked to accommodate to her but when I ask the same, then that´s an expression of my issues. I was assigned this therapist under the circumstances that she´s the only T I can see as she's the only T with available slots. That´s not a good starting position. We don´t get like three therapists to try out, we´re only assigned one and if you don´t accept that T, then you either don´t get any more care or you have to wait for several months to try someone else. That puts a lot of pressure onto clients.

Thanks. And what about the majority (at least among all doctors and therapists and others I´ve seen) of therapists and others who have a Kleenex box on their table and give a tissue to their client?

As you reason around this wanting a nice gesture, like getting a tissue from a T, is problematic behaviour. When wanting something the T doesn´t offer, then the client isn´t accommodating to the therapist.

There perhaps is no symbolism in her keeping the Kleenex box not visible behind a curtain and I don´t think it has anything to do with me specifically. But in total and together with other things I experience with her, it just makes me feel ill at ease and not wanting to share things with her.

There are reasons for therapists to like offer a tissue, follow a client to the door, offering some water and similar. That not all therapists do that is of course fine but then a natural consequence will be that some clients will react negatively to that behaviour.

Some T:s say they listen to their clients and do something little like follow the client to the door to strengthen the relationship and build trust. Other do not which often is, in many different forms, reasons for clients to switch therapists. The client should then not be seen as different or difficult from wanting something a therapist sees as inappropriate "non therapeutic" and so on.

It sounds like you are trying through your actions to communicate to her that you feel manipulated and that you won't let her manipulate you.

Are you seeing this T again?

Jump'n Jimminy There is nobody to blame for any bad relationship. Either there is compatibility or there is not.

Stop entertaining this foolishness.
There are other therapists out there who would be able to handle you just fine.

I am not sure what to suggest that has not been brought up on your threads yet, Sarah. Except that you really do seem to be focused on what your therapists are doing wrong and criticize their ways, discuss how they/therapy is not helpful to you etc. Not just this one but the older Ts as well. There was a break from it when you had that abrupt termination and focused on the effects of that for a while and more on yourself, but this now sounds a lot like the old dissatisfactions, and least to me. I guess maybe just the process of criticizing these people can help sometimes, definitely quite a few PC members engage in that regularly and consistently here and some also report having had long periods in their therapy when they did little else but scrutinizing the T. So maybe that's how you can feel more empowered and increase your self-esteem? If that is true, then I don't think all these expressions are wrong or useless in any way and no need to change your approach to therapy, but I would still focus a bit on working on your everyday life.

Thanks. Yes, I see through such actions which clearly changes from session to session like standing up and shaking hands two sessions in a row and the next she sits down and just stares at me when I leave.


It just makes it worse, if she would like begin not saying "hello" at the beginning, I won´t say hello to her either. (Why would I). It then easily escalates to me talking without facing her and so on.


It´s a completely different thing if something happens by mistake or chance, like the T being late and we then talk about that and how I feel about that. But setting up situations to see how I react is just BS.

Yes, our last evaluation session is next week and I assume she´ll end our contact then or I tell her I don´t trust her and I don´t like the way she´s conducting therapy.

Thanks. I see it this way too, that it should feel way more safe together with a new T than with her. At the same time I have no one else to choose from and I don´t know what´s a "too bad" therapeutic relationship and what´s an acceptable one.


If I had had like two other therapists to meet with I hadn´t hesitated but met with them.