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LonesomeTonight
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Default May 28, 2019 at 07:16 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins View Post
Many of us have spent our lives never having our joys and triumphs acknowledged. Others deal with depression or self-esteem issues, and being able to even see those joys and triumphs much less talk about them is foreign to us. Others have made progress in therapy, and those joys and triumphs are our victories and evidence of progress and healing. I'm sure there are many other reasons those kinds of discussions are helpful and validating of our worth and strength and perseverance.

I agree with this. I think they can be useful in showing progress--particularly the triumphs. Though I think it can be useful for a T to understand what brings us joy as well--like my T knows that music, particularly live music, has a lot of meaning for me and can bring me lots of joy. So that helps him understand more if I'm talking about something involving music. And I think it gives him a better sense of me as a person--if I only talked about the negative, he might have less of a sense of how to help me. I guess it's part of knowing what motivates me, too. And the validation when I have some sort of triumph can feel good and affirming as well--with his confirming that something I did is progress. I mean, ideally, I guess I ultimately wouldn't need that validation/confirmation, that just my feeling I've made progress is enough, but it's helpful for me at this point in my therapy.
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Default May 28, 2019 at 01:22 PM
  #42
I don't know if this applies to you, but I was largely in denial of things that happened to me in childhood. I don't mean that I didn't know they happened, but I insisted they didn't matter and demanded they be classified as just bad stuff that happened that didn't really matter. The issue with this was that this outlook implicitly demanded that I disown and devalue my own emotions about the things that happened. I think I was trying to control and suppress the underlying pain by minimizing and distorting my past experiences. The irony is that I insisted that classifying certain things as abuse was a distortion of reality. I was playing mind games with myself to try to avoid experiencing painful emotions.

I'm not saying that talking about childhood experiences is fruitful or necessary for everyone. And I would certainly say it is painful to allow dissociated emotions to surface. For me, though, my emotions were previously limited to a single thing: anger. I don't want to live that way forever. It is scary sometimes feeling the emotions that I had suppressed. Feels out of control. Sometimes the pain makes me wish I could go back. However, I see now that it was there all along, if masked by anger. Now I can better acknowledge the underlying feelings. The therapist and I are working on figuring out how to deal with these feelings in a way that isn't hurtful to me or others. Suppressed feelings can never be resolved. I don't know if you are suppressing feelings, but it seems like a possibility. The way you talk about your experiences reminds me of myself.

Another value in talking about this stuff is that I think denial can sometimes end up hurting other people. Not always, obviously, but sometimes. If I insist that certain things that happened to me were ok and not a big deal, that implicitly says that me doing the things that hurt me is also ok and not a big deal. This allowed me to hurt C terribly while denying responsibility for the devastation I caused.

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Default May 28, 2019 at 05:52 PM
  #43
I don't deny my family difficulties in the slightest. And I've swam in them, stomped them, sauteed them and fricasseed them until I concluded they've stolen far too much of my life.

These ruminations don't help my work or my friendships, nor do they inoculate me, unfortunately, from"irrational" emotions.

If we're not inclined, I see no moral imperative for a total life inquest, nor have I observed anyone has done so now superbly rational.
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Default May 29, 2019 at 05:39 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Lrad123 View Post
I think so, but apparently I need to hear things a jillion times before they sink in. Maybe I’ll ask him again this week.
Im interested to hear what he said.

The way this therapy is done is for character change rather than addressing symptoms, which involves integration of disavowed feelings and experiences.

In addition to what everyone else said, I would say overall, it can result in feeling more like yourself, being true to yourself, and having more autonomy.

I also found that through understanding, the past has less power over me now, and so my feelings and behaviors are less influenced by the past. When the transference dissolves, you sort of see things in a different light and can make better choices.

Wish I did this therapy years ago instead of later on life.
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Default May 29, 2019 at 01:51 PM
  #45
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My T generally isn’t the type to tell me what to do or how to feel, but he clearly keeps sending me the message that he thinks I perceive my childhood as normal when he believes it wasn’t.
The therapist benefits by suggesting things were bad. Basic conflict of interest.

If I had listened to the therapy industry, I'd have been in therapy forever, because one "issue" leads to the next.

Childhood is a bottomless pit of content for therapy, and even the client's "resistance" to rummaging thru childhood can become therapy content. It's self-perpetuating.

One therapist told me "everything is grist for the therapy mill". It's a great business model.

Some people go thru horrible things and just get on with life best they can.
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Default May 29, 2019 at 02:28 PM
  #46
The second woman kept saying there was no normal when it came to families.

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Default May 29, 2019 at 02:45 PM
  #47
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The second woman kept saying there was no normal when it came to families.
True. If there’s some metric for normal or any other psych label, someone please provide citations. I think what are labeled as grave “issues” (ie insecure attachment etc.) is merely being human.
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Default May 29, 2019 at 03:07 PM
  #48
Depends on the therapist... I worked with several that wanted me to share but there never seemed to be a point other than some odd kind of trauma voyerism.

Current T wants me to know what normal is so I have a baseline and he wants to offer repairitive experiences where possible. Where repairitive experiences are not possible he wants to be one of the people I feel safe turning to for support with what ever emotions come up for me.

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Default May 29, 2019 at 04:53 PM
  #49
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Im interested to hear what he said..
Blech. I just don’t know. Today he said he thinks I know somewhere in the back of my head that it was “extreme neglect” and that he also thinks a big part of me doesn’t know. And he’s right - a big part of me doesn’t know what to believe. He said it’s important to talk about. To be continued, I guess.
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Default May 29, 2019 at 07:07 PM
  #50
That sounds like a classic sales pitch. Therapists are in an ideal position to appeal to fear and insecurity to sell their wares. Yet they are given wide latitude. They can assert almost anything, and most vulnerable or overwhelmed clients will express zero skepticism, because their emotions have been systematically tweaked by the $150/hr Svengali. Also, if a therapist tries to dictate what is important for the client... red flag. We know it's important to the therapist to keep talking about stuff, but the client... less clear.
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Default May 29, 2019 at 08:18 PM
  #51
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That sounds like a classic sales pitch. Therapists are in an ideal position to appeal to fear and insecurity to sell their wares. Yet they are given wide latitude. They can assert almost anything, and most vulnerable or overwhelmed clients will express zero skepticism, because their emotions have been systematically tweaked by the $150/hr Svengali. Also, if a therapist tries to dictate what is important for the client... red flag. We know it's important to the therapist to keep talking about stuff, but the client... less clear.
I don't agree with you, in this case. The T may be making a sales pitch -- I had a lot who did, and didn't know how to help me get to the things in the back of my head. Instead they played helper and healer, and I accepted the victim role because it felt good in some ways (blech!)

Maybe this T won't do that, and maybe Lrad is taking of herself, and entertaining doubts about this T and his methods. And she has asked for our input -- so has a lot of alternative opinions to consider!
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Default May 29, 2019 at 11:31 PM
  #52
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Blech. I just don’t know. Today he said he thinks I know somewhere in the back of my head that it was “extreme neglect” and that he also thinks a big part of me doesn’t know. And he’s right - a big part of me doesn’t know what to believe. He said it’s important to talk about. To be continued, I guess.
Neglect is often minimized and misunderstood. You wouldn't have the tendencies you have-focusing on others, discomfort when the focus is on you, taking care of others, having shame with your needs, and the defenses, erc, if it was minimal.

My history of neglect had a profound effect on me, worse that all the other abuses, which were really bad.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 03:34 AM
  #53
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Neglect is often minimized and misunderstood. You wouldn't have the tendencies you have-focusing on others, discomfort when the focus is on you, taking care of others, having shame with your needs, and the defenses, erc, if it was minimal.

My history of neglect had a profound effect on me, worse that all the other abuses, which were really bad.
I’m not sure about this. Are you saying that if I meet someone in my daily life who is kind, thoughtful and puts others first I can assume they were neglected as a child? Because those all seem like good qualities.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 05:25 AM
  #54
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I’m not sure about this. Are you saying that if I meet someone in my daily life who is kind, thoughtful and puts others first I can assume they were neglected as a child? Because those all seem like good qualities.
I don't think sacrificing oneself and people pleasing is being kind, generous, or noble. It's done out of fear and need for approval for the person who is the people pleaser, for your needs, not theirs.

There are worse effects from trauma. I can post some links anout it if you're interested.

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Default May 30, 2019 at 06:06 AM
  #55
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I’m not sure about this. Are you saying that if I meet someone in my daily life who is kind, thoughtful and puts others first I can assume they were neglected as a child? Because those all seem like good qualities.
Perhaps if someone was kind, thoughtful, and puts others first, and is also able to accept care and a reciprocal focus on his or herself, he or she MAY have had a "good enough" or appropriate childhood. I think the statement was also about having shame about needs and deflecting attention and care away from yourself so as not to be vulnerable. This is likely a form of control and self-protection. (Just some thoughts from someone who did not have a good enough childhood...)
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Default May 30, 2019 at 06:30 AM
  #56
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There are worse effects from trauma. I can post some links anout it if you're interested.
Yes please.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 06:33 AM
  #57
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Perhaps if someone was kind, thoughtful, and puts others first, and is also able to accept care and a reciprocal focus on his or herself, he or she MAY have had a "good enough" or appropriate childhood. I think the statement was also about having shame about needs and deflecting attention and care away from yourself so as not to be vulnerable. This is likely a form of control and self-protection. (Just some thoughts from someone who did not have a good enough childhood...)
I think you hit on something important there with the reciprocal focus/ability there. Some people feel discomfort with an imbalance in the relationship (if it's a peer) where one person gives of themselves but isn't willing to receive. Maybe this feels like a one-down position (to refuse what people offer can be a power move) or they are simply people who also want to give in their relationships. Caretakers are really good at finding people who are narcissists and who are happy to take and not give back.

But it's not always that these things are associated with the type of childhood people have. I know plenty of people who have worked on themselves, in and out of therapy, to have better relationships with others. I think kindness is just about the most important thing in relationships now. I surround myself with kind people, and most of them have had not good enough childhoods.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 08:32 AM
  #58
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I surround myself with kind people, and most of them have had not good enough childhoods.
Yes! I'm working on this now. Both learning to accept more care and also trying to shift my relationships towards kinder friends.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 12:35 PM
  #59
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I don't agree with you, in this case. The T may be making a sales pitch -- I had a lot who did, and didn't know how to help me get to the things in the back of my head.
I meant that what OP's therapist is saying sounds like a sales pitch. Encouraging the client to continue talking about childhood stuff is a way to keep the meter running.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 01:14 PM
  #60
Clearly people pleasing and being overly deferential is a problematic trait. But that does not automatically mean therapy is a good idea.

Therapists try to link life problems directly with the need for therapy. I fell for this. Figured i had to hire a therapist to "talk about it".

I see almost no discussion of this anywhere. Most people just acquiesce to the marketing narrative... if you have problems A, B, or C you need therapy (or need to continue therapy).

Thinking critically and independently means pushing back when someone is selling an expensive (and poorly defined) service. I should have been asking... where is the evidence that i need this overpriced artificial relationship.

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