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Default May 26, 2019 at 02:58 PM
  #21
The therapists I hired would say pointless things and then not explain why they said them or how they were not pointless. Even the times I both understood what they were saying and could agree what they said was not untrue - it was irrelevant and didn't matter to anything. When those both would happen -it was about like them saying grass is green or the sky is blue. Both of those things, while not untrue, were completely irrelevant to anything.

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Default May 26, 2019 at 03:14 PM
  #22
All your saying is, nothing goes in, for you, from "those people". But the president says there are nice people on both sides, so it must be true!
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Default May 26, 2019 at 03:53 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Lrad123 View Post
My T generally isn’t the type to tell me what to do or how to feel, but he clearly keeps sending me the message that he thinks I perceive my childhood as normal when he believes it wasn’t. I guess you could say we sort of argue about this. This feels like such a stereotype of therapy to me - going to therapy to blame everything on your parents, and I’m not sure of the benefit of playing that game. I’m high functioning and have a generally good life. I’m aware that my parents had issues of their own, but they weren’t cruel or abusive and they loved me. Through talking about my childhood I’m aware that my parents weren’t completely in tune with my emotional needs, and perhaps made choices that I would not have made, especially now that I’m a parent and can think about how I’d do things differently. Last week I admitted that “maybe there was an element of neglect,” and he cut me off saying, “it wasn’t just an element. It was neglect.” He also has started to occasionally bring up a particularly difficult year in my childhood where I coped by watching a certain inspiring movie several times per week and bonding with my dog. I’m conflicted because when he says things a certain way, I can see his point that I was largely emotionally alone as a kid. My parents did not see me. I’m just not sure what I’m supposed to do with this now. As an adult, at this point in my life, how is this useful? Am I supposed to cry about it and be sad about it? Am I supposed to be angry? Because I just don’t feel like it. My father took his life when I was a teen and I feel like I’ve mourned that already. A few years ago I chose to have no contact with my mother for reasons that are complicated and this breaks my heart, but I felt like I had no choice and it’s honestly made my life easier in a way. What good does it do to go back now and pick apart my not-so-extraordinary childhood? Wondering if anyone has had a similar experience?
In my very first session with R, when he asked me to talk about my relationship with my father, and i was going on about some of the stuff he said to me. He actually said "oh my G-d" at one point. I thought all of what I went through was normal. Your T may be been too direct, but abuse at the end of the day is STILL abuse whether we're ready to hear it or not.

I believe our childhoods shape us as adults and it would be useful to talk about when your ready. Or not if you don't want to.

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Default May 26, 2019 at 03:56 PM
  #24
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Thank you for understanding me. The people I appreciate most on this board are those who tell the truth as they see it, and acknowledge it as just that, not fact and not for all people in all time. I don't always agree with people who tell their truths/truthiness, but I appreciate that they do it.

I know from my personal life it takes guts to tell the truth. It does here too. I've benefitted the most from threads where I've done so and anyone who doesn't like it or tries to shut me up won't be successful.
FWIW I’m not offended. I’m aware you’re a straight shooter and that’s your style. You are not forcing your opinions on me - I can take it or leave it if I like and I appreciate your perspective on things.
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Default May 26, 2019 at 04:11 PM
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How is telling the truth an attack? Telling somebody, "your a liar" - thats an attack. Telling somebody "i dont believe you about this" is not the same as saying "your a liar". You are just telling what you hear. If the person is not ready to hear it, as often happens on these pages, it still doesnt make it an attack. Intent (motive) is lacking. It may be a venial sin, but the lady's not for hanging.
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You're an orphan. And you have no problems with that? No need to page Dr. Freud.
This feels to me like an attack -- it may not to others. I thought that I was clear in saying that some things in the post hurt me and felt to me like an attack? Is that the same, to you, as saying something IS an attack?

How does that make me hanging someone? I don't get that -- maybe it's my cluelessness, my problem, as I also said. But that isn't the topic of this thread. I'll be glad to take it to another one -- I really would appreciate getting clued in -- or PM me?
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Default May 26, 2019 at 04:31 PM
  #26
I think psychoanalysts are often especially prone to that. After all, if the client had okay childhoods, let alone mostly loving, supportive parents, they have no work to do as that kind of therapy is so focused on early life adverse experiences. I had arguments over this with my own psychoanalyst, even told him what he was doing (trying to twist things to convince a client that they were neglected, abused etc) could potentially be quite damaging if the client buys it. It can sometimes be illuminating to point out stuff someone is denying but there is a difference between that and projecting things into someone else's life that is not there or is not an issue for that person. My ex-T did this frequently and at the same time often ignored the real problems and some of the most useful insights I had, because they were not in the framework of his preferred theories and explanations.
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Default May 26, 2019 at 04:36 PM
  #27
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...I'll be glad to take it to another one -- I really would appreciate getting clued in -- or PM me?
If you dont understand what is being said here, what difference will another thread or PM make? Re-read these few posts til you do. Every inference is not an accusation, thats why they are two unique words. You have made this offer before, but i dont get the point. Is this like taking it to another room in chat? (I dont chat.) You are always free to start another thread, but i think the OP is caught up, FWIW.
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Default May 26, 2019 at 04:43 PM
  #28
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. . . i think the OP is caught up, FWIW.
I agree.
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Default May 26, 2019 at 04:46 PM
  #29
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All your saying is, nothing goes in, for you, from "those people". But the president says there are nice people on both sides, so it must be true!
If this was directed at me, I have no idea what this means.
But I almost never understand what you are talking about. But worry not, I certainly shall not pm you.

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Last edited by stopdog; May 26, 2019 at 05:03 PM..
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Default May 26, 2019 at 11:14 PM
  #30
Lrad, a lot of your post resonates extremely strongly for me. Right down to remembering exactly what my therapist's voice sounded like the time two years ago that I described a childhood experience as "maybe a little neglectful" and he chimed in with "That's neglect! That's the definition of neglect." For the record, he was completely right. And the way he said it--and the fact that it was highly uncharacteristic of him to label an experience of mine or be that vehement and explicit in how he made the point--really stuck with me. Over time, thinking back to how strongly he said that has been something of a touchstone for me when I've doubted that conclusion or felt like that label was unfair to my parents.

All of that is to say that while of course I can't speak to what any of your experiences were like, or what any if it means to you now, I know what it's like to be grappling with something similar. In my case, I thought I'd already processed those experiences and relationships sufficiently and had made peace with them. I didn't think there was much point in rehashing old stuff all over again, and resented the way talking about it seemed pointless and cliche. I was very, very wrong. Looking more closely at my childhood, how I feel about it, and how those experiences and feelings impact me today has been extremely helpful, and has unlocked some very surprising realizations about my patterns then and now. It's not about blame--it's about figuring out where I come from.

And in my case, trying to simplify it into an issue of blame was (and honestly, still is) a way that I tried to avoid looking at it more closely and tried to keep my distance from some really difficult feelings. I still reflexively cut myself off sometimes while I'm talking about childhood events, and start saying something like "but nevermind, what's the point in rehashing ancient history" or "oh, look at me sitting in my therapist's office blaming my mother, how original." I've finally come to realize, at least sometimes, that those arguments are rooted in guilt and shame and the ways I learned to take care of myself when I was younger, and while they still crop up with great regularity, I also know that they don't serve me well now.

So you don't have to let it be about blame in order to explore that part of your life and your feelings about it. You also don't have to explore it at all or have any feelings about it! But if it keeps coming up, it seems worth wondering how it impacts you, and over time maybe you'll notice some things that can lead you in a useful direction. You don't have to agree with your therapist's assessment of things--maybe he's right, maybe he's not. But if what he's said has stuck with you, it seems worth considering talking about it some more, and thinking about what it might be like if you were to start seeing it from that perspective, without dismissing whatever comes up.
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Default May 27, 2019 at 01:12 AM
  #31
My deep dive into my past (3x weekly analysis) taught me nothing I didn't already know, but instead habituated depression by dwelling in my most negative places. It also gave me a sense of entitlement--I expected the world to coddle me because I held so many victim chips.

I lost important lifelong friends feeling analysis made me so superior and living in such a pseudo world.

While I agree that childhood is part of our shaping, so are many other factors, our gender, society, our education, careers, peer, intimates and co-workers. We actually can join causes toward changing some of these conditions.

Ultimately my big self-absorption party was only detrimental. There were no practical changes in the present from living in the past. I think causality exploration in therapy is a parlor game. How can it be more than speculation?

I did free myself somewhat over time and distance from my early stifling, from minimizing my neediness (and the need to compete and impress) and through a few accomplishments. I don't think any mentor could have guided me; I had to find my own path. I "got to know myself" by going forward instead of backward.

I think therapy clients should do what they find useful. I don't consider it "resistance" or "denial" to focus on therapy projects other than going for the burn.

Last edited by missbella; May 27, 2019 at 02:23 AM..
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Default May 27, 2019 at 03:19 AM
  #32
Lrad, my T also seems to have an unspoken aim in my sessions that is to get me to view my parents as emotionally neglectful I thought we had established that sometime ago, but she still labours it. I think that therapists don’t get everything right. I think that I myself have a good idea what I need in my sessions, and one of those things is for me to speak my mind in the moment in my sessions with her, including that it feels like she is labouring the point about the emotional neglect. In that respect it is not unhelpful her doing so as it gives me an opportunity to speak my mind, which I will hopefully take up any day now.
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Default May 27, 2019 at 11:20 AM
  #33
Nothing enraged me more than a tall colleague hit-and run patting atop my head and calling me “poor dear.”

Until it tips over, my glass always is half-empty, half full. My therapy review only covered childhood sorrows. I wonder how different it would have been to have reviewed joys and triumphs instead.
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Default May 27, 2019 at 05:41 PM
  #34
I'm really not sure why the stereotype persists that addressing childhood history in therapy means ignoring the present, or that addressing difficult situations means ignoring strengths. I know some therapists make those mistakes, but it's not inevitable.

My experience of discussing my childhood in psychoanalytic therapy has been that it's largely about making flexible connections between then and now, no tunnel vision on the past. Open exploration, not blame--I've always been encouraged to remember and discuss joys and triumphs as much as sorrows and traumas, though of course often those aren't straightforward categories. And getting a realistic picture of one's triumphs means having a realistic assessment of what you went through to get where you are.
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Default May 27, 2019 at 08:05 PM
  #35
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I've always been encouraged to remember and discuss joys and triumphs as much as sorrows and traumas
This has been my experience as well. My therapist has welcomed all my experiences, good or bad, big or small.
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Default May 27, 2019 at 08:56 PM
  #36
The therapist might welcome them, but why spend your time and money paying a stranger to tell them about joys and triumphs?

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Default May 27, 2019 at 10:31 PM
  #37
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The therapist might welcome them, but why spend your time and money paying a stranger to tell them about joys and triumphs?
Many of us have spent our lives never having our joys and triumphs acknowledged. Others deal with depression or self-esteem issues, and being able to even see those joys and triumphs much less talk about them is foreign to us. Others have made progress in therapy, and those joys and triumphs are our victories and evidence of progress and healing. I'm sure there are many other reasons those kinds of discussions are helpful and validating of our worth and strength and perseverance.
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Default May 28, 2019 at 06:41 AM
  #38
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The therapist might welcome them, but why spend your time and money paying a stranger to tell them about joys and triumphs?
Because they're part of the whole picture. I was mostly thinking about positive childhood memories when I wrote that, and the fact that sharing happy memories helps give fuller context to the more difficult material and is part of how I know I'm not just paying a stranger to demonize my parents.
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Default May 28, 2019 at 06:52 AM
  #39
Yes, for those of us who may have difficulties with splitting or something similar whether we, or the therapists, know it or not, it seems like consideration of joys and successes could help to integrate things into a more complete whole. Yes, denial and repression, etc., of negative emotions and experiences can be a thing. But if/when the therapist, and therapy theory, focus only on that -- seems to me there are some negative consequences or side effects of that approach, too.
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Default May 28, 2019 at 06:59 AM
  #40
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Yes, for those of us who may have difficulties with splitting or something similar whether we, or the therapists, know it or not, it seems like consideration of joys and successes could help to integrate things into a more complete whole. Yes, denial and repression, etc., of negative emotions and experiences can be a thing. But if/when the therapist, and therapy theory, focus only on that -- seems to me there are some negative consequences or side effects of that approach, too.
Yes, though I want to make it clear that splitting is not what I was thinking about at all (and is not something I have difficulties with). What you wrote makes sense. But it's not only people prone to splitting (and similar ways of framing things) who I think can benefit from sharing the fullest possible picture of one's present and past.
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