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Default May 29, 2019 at 05:50 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by SalingerEsme View Post
This kind of mind game upsets me on your behalf. I keep coming back to my T and I being peers in age and education, and sometimes referring him clients bc he is newer in town. I work 6 or 7 days a week; he works four days a week. I answer all my emails from clientsl he ??? is too busy doing self care? Anytime I hear a T on Reddit complaining they dont have enough clients, I just shake my head. The 45 minute hour and the above-email and all of it seems too hard for an average person in my state to grasp with enthusiasm if they are new to therapy. It is all a little precious and stylized. Maybe you are the expert on yourself, and right now you need to email and feel what it is like to get a steady, caring response?
I’m so sorry SE.

It was hard on me as well.

My therapist and I didn’t email, but I’m not sure it would have been healthy for me if we did. I can only imagine if our 50 minute session leaked all over the rest of my week. (Or it could have helped... I don’t know.)

Boundaries are awful and complicated.
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Default May 29, 2019 at 06:44 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by SalingerEsme View Post
Maybe you are the expert on yourself, and right now you need to email and feel what it is like to get a steady, caring response?
This just makes sooooo much sense. Ugh.
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Default May 29, 2019 at 08:06 PM
  #23
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He thought maybe we were re-enacting something (maybe something with my parents) where I’d express a need for connection and not be heard. I said I didn’t need that any more and I didn’t want to give him the power to do that to me. He never once discouraged me from sending emails. In fact, he reminded me that that was our agreement- that I could send them and that he’d read them.
Did he have any suggestions on how to work through this if it was a re-enactment? It would seem to me that you knowing he reads them without any kind of response at all is not enough for you to feel heard. I highly doubt I would feel heard by know that my T reads my emails.
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Default May 29, 2019 at 08:25 PM
  #24
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Did he have any suggestions on how to work through this if it was a re-enactment? It would seem to me that you knowing he reads them without any kind of response at all is not enough for you to feel heard. I highly doubt I would feel heard by know that my T reads my emails.
His suggestion is that we talk about it in person during our sessions.
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Default May 29, 2019 at 10:40 PM
  #25
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Today I told him that I didn’t think sending emails was helpful to me any more and that I’ve decided not to send them. He said he thought they had been helpful in the past and that I had been able to express myself in ways I never could in person and that it helped him understand me better. But if sending them caused shame and no longer felt helpful, then he didn’t want that. I think I was feeling shame because I could feel my face flush and my eyes water as I thought about how how intrusive my emails might have seemed (he said they were not) and how he said (after I asked) that his other clients don’t email with any significant content, only for scheduling. He thought maybe we were re-enacting something (maybe something with my parents) where I’d express a need for connection and not be heard. I said I didn’t need that any more and I didn’t want to give him the power to do that to me. He never once discouraged me from sending emails. In fact, he reminded me that that was our agreement- that I could send them and that he’d read them.
Stopping the emails may be part of the reenactment, too, as you mentioned power dynamics... Shame is such a yucky feeling.

Funny, my T once said I was the only one who emailed him like I did. I emailed him all the time to rescue me, or sometimes to connect with him, a child part wanting to play or share excitement. When he didn't email back, it felt like I didn't matter.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 03:22 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by octoberful View Post
Funny, my T once said I was the only one who emailed him like I did. I emailed him all the time to rescue me, or sometimes to connect with him, a child part wanting to play or share excitement. When he didn't email back, it felt like I didn't matter.
How did this get resolved for you? It feels like an impasse for me. I completely understand all the logical reasons for accepting that he isn’t going to respond, but I’m just angry about it anyway. His reasons all seem like lame excuses. He’s just taking the easy way out. I see him again in less than 4 hours and I’m up in the middle of the night stewing about this. I wish I had more time before our next appointment to calm down about this because right now I’m just livid and I don’t see how I’m ever going to feel ok about this. And on top of everything I told him I wasn’t going to email him any more (so I won’t) which feels like taking away one of the tools in my toolbox.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 05:55 AM
  #27
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How did this get resolved for you? It feels like an impasse for me. I completely understand all the logical reasons for accepting that he isn’t going to respond, but I’m just angry about it anyway. His reasons all seem like lame excuses. He’s just taking the easy way out. I see him again in less than 4 hours and I’m up in the middle of the night stewing about this. I wish I had more time before our next appointment to calm down about this because right now I’m just livid and I don’t see how I’m ever going to feel ok about this. And on top of everything I told him I wasn’t going to email him any more (so I won’t) which feels like taking away one of the tools in my toolbox.
My need faded when my dependency on him faded. What he did/didn't do didn't have as much power over me anymore. So it just happened organically through the therapy work. This was a result, I believe, of his being a separate person from from me, not engaging in my patterns. Like your T is doing.

Maybe it would help to read about people pleasing, as that is a form of dependency on others.. He's not playing into your pattern-he's being a separate person from you.

Your anger is understandable. I think its easier for your T to just respond to your emails than to handle your anger and help you resolve your dependency. He's helping you grow, rather than appease you, which I think is loving.

Like a parent who doesn't just give her kid candy because the child is crying about it, going on and on about it, bugging Mom.

I think when you access the feelings under the anger, it will make more sense. You still have not accessed those feelings.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 08:02 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by octoberful View Post
I think when you access the feelings under the anger, it will make more sense. You still have not accessed those feelings.
Well I just got mad at him for the first time. I’ve just left his office, so I’m still processing it all.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 08:23 AM
  #29
Congratulations! Hopefully, likely he'll be OK with it, unlike my T's. And all you'll need to worry about is your processing.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 08:45 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by SalingerEsme View Post
This kind of mind game upsets me on your behalf. I keep coming back to my T and I being peers in age and education, and sometimes referring him clients bc he is newer in town. I work 6 or 7 days a week; he works four days a week. I answer all my emails from clientsl he ??? is too busy doing self care? Anytime I hear a T on Reddit complaining they dont have enough clients, I just shake my head. The 45 minute hour and the above-email and all of it seems too hard for an average person in my state to grasp with enthusiasm if they are new to therapy. It is all a little precious and stylized. Maybe you are the expert on yourself, and right now you need to email and feel what it is like to get a steady, caring response?
I don't think that "mind game" is an accurate label for a therapist who has been consistent for months in saying that he will not answer emails and has welcomed her to send them and said he will read them. He changed his mind about what he is willing to do because of the impact it had on her therapy (and seems to have been right about that, from Lrad's conclusion). Changing your mind about the utility of what you do as a professional, thinking about whether it serves the person, is what I expect any professional to do. Which is his right to do as person, and his obligation as a professional (to do the right thing), because he thinks it wasn't helpful to her. I think he's only trying to do the right thing here, and that doesn't mean he has to be "consistent" like Lrad is a toddler or can't handle change.

Whether or not a professional answers emails and how that works cannot be judged by what you either must do because of your job and what you choose to do. Most people on a salary I expect have to answer emails as part of their jobs; in my work I charge people for emails and I also make strategie decisions about what is better for email and better for phone that depend on the person (I work with at least one person who for ESL reasons, doesn't do well with email or phone, and I usually just stop by her house to talk to her). I make house calls and I talk to people on the phone and I sometimes email or text or write letters, but it is important that I make good judgments about what kind of communication and when it makes sense to communicate. Something I'm also teaching my teenager. Saying anyone should always answer emails no matter what profession or the demands of how different people work is wrong, the way I see it. There are good reasons outside of the profession of therapy to limit or be strategic about communication types, including email. No client is entitled to have email answered, especially when a T works on an hourly rate.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 11:45 AM
  #31
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He changed his mind about what he is willing to do because of the impact it had on her therapy (and seems to have been right about that, from Lrad's conclusion). Changing your mind about the utility of what you do as a professional, thinking about whether it serves the person, is what I expect any professional to do. Which is his right to do as person, and his obligation as a professional (to do the right thing), because he thinks it wasn't helpful to her. I think he's only trying to do the right thing here, and that doesn't mean he has to be "consistent" like Lrad is a toddler or can't handle change.
This seems about right, nevertheless, I was angry and I let him know it during our session this morning. Among other things, I said I thought he was 2-dimensional and lacking in complexity because he couldn’t figure out how to answer emails. He was completely accepting and welcoming of my anger and talked about how not being acknowledged sucks and how I’ve experienced that in my childhood where I was basically seen as an extension of my parents and was expected to fulfill their wishes (not because they were bad people, but perhaps because they didn’t know any better). I’m not sure how this will all go and how I’ll feel about it later on, but it was interesting. He talked about how he’s imperfect and how maybe I sometimes see him as inadequate. I think he was basically saying that everyone is imperfect but relationships and connection are worth the risk. He mentioned the scene from Parenthood (the movie) where the grandmother talks about how she prefers the thrill of the ups & downs of the rollercoaster to the merry-go-round which just goes in circles and how that relates to life. We ended up laughing a little about another scene from that movie.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 11:46 AM
  #32
You could create like a secondary email address and send them to that. I have one I made on my internet provider that I use. Sometimes I log onto it and read them later, sometimes I don't. It's a way for me to send stuff away from myself, or something.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 12:13 PM
  #33
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You could create like a secondary email address and send them to that. I have one I made on my internet provider that I use. Sometimes I log onto it and read them later, sometimes I don't. It's a way for me to send stuff away from myself, or something.
Yeah that’s a good idea. For now I think I’ll just refrain from sending. Both yesterday and today he emphasized that our agreement has been that I can send as many emails as I want, and he will read them. It was nice of him to say that, I’m just not sure what to do with it yet. I took it as a green light to go ahead and email, but I still feel a little hurt and want to hold back to show him I don’t need this from him. That being said, I don’t necessarily feel like I need a response to every email. Sometimes I might just want to get something off my chest.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 01:18 PM
  #34
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Yeah that’s a good idea. For now I think I’ll just refrain from sending. Both yesterday and today he emphasized that our agreement has been that I can send as many emails as I want, and he will read them. It was nice of him to say that, I’m just not sure what to do with it yet. I took it as a green light to go ahead and email, but I still feel a little hurt and want to hold back to show him I don’t need this from him. That being said, I don’t necessarily feel like I need a response to every email. Sometimes I might just want to get something off my chest.
With former T probably 80 percent she just read, no response, but none actually needed. 10 percent she answered on her own accord and another 10 percent she answered because I specifically asked for an answer. I understand not necessarily needing a response, and just wanting to get something off of your chest. I think it would be hard though to never receive a response. I would feel unheard even if I knew T read them. Not saying that is your experience. Just what I think I would feel. I don't email current T and although that has its drawbacks, it does in a way simplify my life. I do tend to journal more. But sometimes I do wish I could drop her a line in the midst of something. It's hard to hold onto it for sometimes a few weeks at a time. HUGS Kit

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Default May 30, 2019 at 01:58 PM
  #35
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Well I just got mad at him for the first time. I’ve just left his office, so I’m still processing it all.
Might be a good thing to finally be angry with him.

People who had trauma try to control their environment/people, though normally out of awareness. Your T does not engage with you, so it makes sense you may be taking actions, such as stopping the emails, to try to regain control.

Just about anyone gets very angry when the other does not engage in their patterns, so your T is probably expecting you to be angry. The thing is, people don't change if they are able to control the environment. When the environment refuses to cooperate, a person has no choice but to change (or to quit therapy).

Quote:
He was completely accepting and welcoming of my anger and talked about how not being acknowledged sucks and how I’ve experienced that in my childhood where I was basically seen as an extension of my parents and was expected to fulfill their wishes (not because they were bad people, but perhaps because they didn’t know any better)
This ^ is probably what the email issue is really about all this time? So it seems like you are connecting with that aspect of your past as those types of things are underneath the anger.

Hope the anger energy takes you to a better place. Hopefully letting out some steam will vent some of the frustration that's been building. Take care.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 05:18 PM
  #36
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No client is entitled to have email answered, especially when a T works on an hourly rate.
Well, if Ts get together to complain in bewildered fashion on Reddit about not having full practices, then replying to emails from earnest clients might be wise- even if they charge for them . I have a flourishing, thriving business of my own, and I know that clients need to feel valued. If T's want to ignore email from clients, then I don't have very much sympathy if they lose the client to someone more supportive. Either that, or they need to be effective at psychoeducation, so the client comprehends why not. . .

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Default May 30, 2019 at 05:30 PM
  #37
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I think it would be hard though to never receive a response. I would feel unheard even if I knew T read them. Not saying that is your experience. t
That’s nice that your former T responded at least once in a while. I just think that even if you choose not to respond there are probably occasional emails that merit a response. His response was that he didn’t want to be inconsistent to which I responded that that was a cop out answer. I agree with what you said above and am still processing how I feel about it all. My T seems good when I’m with him, but when I start thinking it through I can feel hurt again.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 05:32 PM
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Either that, or they need to be effective at psychoeducation, so the client comprehends why not. . .
It’s this part that really gets me. Why don’t they explain things? I shouldn’t have to go on PC or Google to get all of my answers.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 05:38 PM
  #39
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Just about anyone gets very angry when the other does not engage in their patterns, so your T is probably expecting you to be angry.
Yes he was totally and completely expecting the anger. I’d say he was even pleased by it. I can understand and appreciate your explanations of the theory behind why he has done what he’s done, but I also can’t help but feel like he was messing with me and trying to provoke anger in me. It feels like he was playing games or like a was just a subject in a study.
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Default May 30, 2019 at 05:58 PM
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This seems about right, nevertheless, I was angry and I let him know it during our session this morning.
. . . .
He was completely accepting and welcoming of my anger and talked about how not being acknowledged sucks and how I’ve experienced that in my childhood where I was basically seen as an extension of my parents and was expected to fulfill their wishes (not because they were bad people, but perhaps because they didn’t know any better). I’m not sure how this will all go and how I’ll feel about it later on, but it was interesting. He talked about how he’s imperfect and how maybe I sometimes see him as inadequate. .
I could be mis-reading you, but I'm curious about your response because it seems like you're suggesting that perceiving his responding to email as "cognitively" more reasonable and also talking about your emotional reactions to it are somehow mutually exclusive, or that I see them this way. And I sort of feel the need to explain that is certainly not how I view the situation. I think the whole point of this email thing is to both see it more complexly and accurately AND explore what arises in dealing with this at the same time. The cognitive piece is not a "fix" for the situation, as "get a grip" or otherwise pointing out that your T is not always adequate. You can still be pissed off about his inadequacy even if you agree that he's doing the right thing.
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