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Default Jun 13, 2019 at 04:21 PM
  #21
I am also bemused that my T will sometimes share something pretty person, but then refuse to say why he chose a huge print for the wall of the waiting room. I've found out things just from life happening- such as that my T dislikes/is allergic to dogs ( I love them), bc the office down the hall brought one and let it wander the floor. His face told all, so then he sheepishly confessed . He nodded to my dog stories, and gave no sign before that. That is when I realized therapy is a strange interaction.

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Default Jun 13, 2019 at 04:24 PM
  #22
Oh, and I haven’t found anything yet that Pdoc won’t answer, not that I have gotten too creative... but I have met her husband and two of her kids. We talk a lot about family, more so than T who tends to be more protective of family, especially his wife.

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Default Jun 13, 2019 at 05:16 PM
  #23
I don't really ask a lot of questions. If she mentions something, I might ask a follow up question relating to the topic, though. I don't think I've asked her anything she's refused to answer. She wouldn't refuse anything dumb like stuff about pets. I know she has a dog and I know his name, and also the name of her previous dog who passed away. She also had a cat who passed away last year. I can't remember her name.

I guess the only thing similar to refusing to answer is when I have prefaced a confession of having acted out by saying she isn't going to like it or that she might be angry. This isn't really about seeking reassurance but about preparing her to hear something unpleasant so that she can brace herself to not lose her temper at me. However, she sort of answers as if I asked a question or want reassurance, which is fine, because it gives her time to probably think up the worst thing I might have done. She has time to prepare her special unemotional, dead voice that she uses when she's mad. Anyway, she sort of beats around the bush. She usually says something about it not being her place to be angry blah blah. Which, if I had meant what I said as a question, would sort of be her refusing to answer whether she might get mad.

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Default Jun 13, 2019 at 05:34 PM
  #24
I don't think she's ever refused to answer a question about herself. I guess I've never really asked a lot of questions, except as general chit-chat or follow up from our chatting from the session before. I do know she has a cat, bakes cookies with her grandkids, she sometimes mentions broadly where she's traveling to and why, but it's just things we've chatted about, not that I've really asked.

LT, I'm curious, a little, why you equated that vagueish answer with non-disclosure. I'd have taken it to be more along the lines of not wanting to get off track into pet chat. Ha!--especially if he actually has a snake, which can get quite a reaction from people.

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Default Jun 13, 2019 at 05:40 PM
  #25
T seems pretty open to me so I haven't run into any questions that he won't answer. I really try not to ask much though because I am terrified of hitting one of those boundaries.
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Default Jun 13, 2019 at 05:44 PM
  #26
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Does he think I'm going to run out and buy a matching set of pets?
Lol! I always wonder this when I ask them questions. For example, I ask them their favorite color. Why does there have to be a discussion? Do they think I'm going to decorate my house in that color? Why isn't it a simple, innocent, curious question?

Or birthdays. I don't understand why they won't tell me. It's not like I'm going to throw a party for them. Hell, I won't even acknowledge it if they don't want me to. They get to know my birthday, why can't I know theirs?

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Default Jun 13, 2019 at 06:06 PM
  #27
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Lol! I always wonder this when I ask them questions. For example, I ask them their favorite color. Why does there have to be a discussion? Do they think I'm going to decorate my house in that color? Why isn't it a simple, innocent, curious question?

Or birthdays. I don't understand why they won't tell me. It's not like I'm going to throw a party for them. Hell, I won't even acknowledge it if they don't want me to. They get to know my birthday, why can't I know theirs?

Yes, exactly! Glad you understand. Some of it seems to me like basic human connection stuff. I understand some boundaries, sure, but others seem really random.
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Default Jun 13, 2019 at 06:30 PM
  #28
I know the therapist's birthday, but only because C put it on the calendar and I asked her how she knew. She didn't ask. She said she went to session and there were some pretty flowers, which she commented on. The therapist said they were from the other therapists because it was her birthday. I know how old she is, too. Sixty. Oh, and I know the name of her hometown and it sounds awful and boring. It has a name that sounds like... hmm... Dirt Slope. Seriously, it sounds grim.

I don't even know what I would ask if I did ask questions. Probably something reflecting my self absorption. Like top 10 times I pissed her off. Susannah's Greatest Hits.

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Default Jun 13, 2019 at 06:36 PM
  #29
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Thought of this question because of something that came up in Monday's session. I was talking about how H and I were considering getting a pet again, so T was talking about the pluses and negatives of various pets--pluses for dogs and...snakes (?!?), more of a minus for cats. At the end of that discussion, I asked him, "So do you have any pets?" He said, "We have a few" but didn't specify, and I felt if I pushed more, he would have held that line. But that's one of those things where it's like...why? Does he think I'm going to run out and buy a matching set of pets? (If one of them is a snake, nope!) Ex-MC was open about current and past pet when we asked him. (Not sure I ever asked ex-T?) This just seemed a natural time to ask because, I mean, he was saying how great snakes can be, so it suggests he either has or had one (or knows someone with one).

Anyway, this is something that I feel would be pointless to push him on, because...what does it *really* matter? But it's just another thing that seems like a huge difference in the T relationship vs. other ones, because if I asked even a coworker if they had pets, I sincerely doubt they'd be like "a few" but not say what they were. Meanwhile, he's mentioned a couple times that his wife has ADHD, which strikes me as a much more personal thing than his pets... And he's shared some other random stuff. He also will never share anything about upcoming vacations, not even something vague, like "I'm going to the Midwest part of theh US" or "I'm going to Western Europe" or if it's a fun or a work trip. That does bother me, but I get the sense it's his boundary that he just won't cross, though he's told me after the fact where he was.

Anyway, just curious as to whether there are any random things your T seems unwilling to disclose (assuming they aren't a completely blank slate T and disclose absolutely nothing).
A matching set of pets haha. Apparently my exT and I were both buying cars around the same time and I bought a Mazda because of the 2 second hand cars I was looking at the Mazda was the best mechanically turns out T bought a Mazda too which triggered a conversation about why I bought a Mazda. I didn't work out that maybe he thought I bought one because he did until weeks after when I saw him drive in.
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Default Jun 13, 2019 at 07:42 PM
  #30
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LT did pose the question, but he gave a vague answer. How else might LT have asked what pets he has? "Will you tell me precisely what type of pets you have and how many of each animal you have from each category of pet? I would also find it superficially interesting if you told me their names". I don't think this is how most neurotypical people make conversation (I am assuming you are neurotypical, LT, apologies if I am getting that wrong).
LT asked, "So do you have any pets?" He said, "We have a few" but didn't specify."

I don't see his answer as "vague" at all. "Do you have any pets" is a yes or no question. He answered with more than a "yes," with "a few". LT could have simply asked, "what kinds of pets do you have?" I don't see this as difficult nor does it have to be the tortured ones that you presented. It's a lot easier to ask a question than be annoyed you don't get the answers you want.

In interviewing, this is called a follow up question. I believe this is very much how "neurotypical", or people with good communication skills, talk to each other. IMO it is better to ask a follow up question if you want to know something, as opposed to assuming a person doesn't want to answer. It would be great if everyone told us everything we wanted to know about whatever we want to know, but IME the truth is that we often have to ask. Sometimes people seem to be reluctant, but it is not often because of the asker, but because of the person answering. Sometimes they have to figure out how open they want to be, or how they feel about answering the question, or probably a few other things too.

At least in my way of doing things, I get the answers to the questions I want. If someone tells me no, I respect that and don't keep asking the same question. But my T has never refused to disclose anything I've asked, some of which has been personal with follow up questions, and a lot he discloses on his own. I know a lot about him and much of that is a result of my positive communication skills. But this is consistent with my experience in the world-- I like asking questions and my friends and loved ones like having me ask them. There's a big difference between learning about someone and being intrusive; and general interest in another person versus nosiness. I think people, including T's, can tell the difference. I see little reason for a T to refuse to disclose something where the client has a genuine interest in it and when they ask specifically in a straightforward way. My point is that communication requires effort on the part of the asker.
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Default Jun 13, 2019 at 08:06 PM
  #31
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LT asked, "So do you have any pets?" He said, "We have a few" but didn't specify."

I don't see his answer as "vague" at all. "Do you have any pets" is a yes or no question. He answered with more than a "yes," with "a few". LT could have simply asked, "what kinds of pets do you have?" I don't see this as difficult nor does it have to be the tortured ones that you presented. It's a lot easier to ask a question than be annoyed you don't get the answers you want.

In interviewing, this is called a follow up question. I believe this is very much how "neurotypical", or people with good communication skills, talk to each other. IMO it is better to ask a follow up question if you want to know something, as opposed to assuming a person doesn't want to answer. It would be great if everyone told us everything we wanted to know about whatever we want to know, but IME the truth is that we often have to ask. Sometimes people seem to be reluctant, but it is not often because of the asker, but because of the person answering. Sometimes they have to figure out how open they want to be, or how they feel about answering the question, or probably a few other things too.

At least in my way of doing things, I get the answers to the questions I want. If someone tells me no, I respect that and don't keep asking the same question. But my T has never refused to disclose anything I've asked, some of which has been personal with follow up questions, and a lot he discloses on his own. I know a lot about him and much of that is a result of my positive communication skills. But this is consistent with my experience in the world-- I like asking questions and my friends and loved ones like having me ask them. There's a big difference between learning about someone and being intrusive; and general interest in another person versus nosiness. I think people, including T's, can tell the difference. I see little reason for a T to refuse to disclose something where the client has a genuine interest in it and when they ask specifically in a straightforward way. My point is that communication requires effort on the part of the asker.

Having been trained in journalism (and having worked in the field), I certainly know how to ask follow-up questions. But generally, "Do you have any pets?" isn't replied to with "yes." Someone might say "I have a cat" or "Not now, but I used to have a dog" or whatever. He knows me--he knows I want specifics. He could have just shared. I took his reply as being that he didn't want to share. With the stuff about his going out of town, I've very specifically asked about that before and explained why it would make me feel more comfortable/safer knowing where (in general) he was going. He still wouldn't say. There have been other things I've pushed him on, and he's declined to say anything else or said something like "That's one of my boundaries." So I got the sense the pet thing was one of those. I also didn't think it was a big enough deal to spend a portion of a session on. Because he's on vacation in early July, maybe I'd bring that up again and just ask if he could give me some really generic sense of where he's going. Not sure pet thing is worth the time.
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Default Jun 13, 2019 at 08:16 PM
  #32
My T has always answered my questions - but then again, I ask very few questions. I've been with her nearly a decade and I don't know a whole lot - she prefers to keep the session about the client. It works for us, I realize that every dynamic is different and it may not work for others.
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Default Jun 13, 2019 at 08:23 PM
  #33
The therapist would never refer to her older daughter by her name. She disclosed a lot and she would talk about her 2 daughters. She always called the younger daughter by her name but whenever she spoke of her older daughter she would always just say “The teenager”. I knew what her name was but she just would never call her by name.

For example: “ In a few weeks I’m taking a road trip with my kids. I know that (insert younger daughters name here) and my teenager are probably going to argue the whole time.
“Jersey. I have to move our appointment to later in the day. My teenager has a thing at school I have to attend.”

“Jersey I’ll be with (insert younger child’s name here) at the doctors tomorrow but text me if you need anything.”

So yeah..she would never call the teenager by her given name when talking to me. But always called the younger one by her given name. I even met the younger one once. She brought her to the office because she was home from school sick that day. Set her up in the back room with snacks and a pillow and an iPad while she did her sessions.
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Default Jun 13, 2019 at 08:38 PM
  #34
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The therapist would never refer to her older daughter by her name. She disclosed a lot and she would talk about her 2 daughters. She always called the younger daughter by her name but whenever she spoke of her older daughter she would always just say “The teenager”. I knew what her name was but she just would never call her by name.

For example: “ In a few weeks I’m taking a road trip with my kids. I know that (insert younger daughters name here) and my teenager are probably going to argue the whole time.
“Jersey. I have to move our appointment to later in the day. My teenager has a thing at school I have to attend.”

“Jersey I’ll be with (insert younger child’s name here) at the doctors tomorrow but text me if you need anything.”

So yeah..she would never call the teenager by her given name when talking to me. But always called the younger one by her given name. I even met the younger one once. She brought her to the office because she was home from school sick that day. Set her up in the back room with snacks and a pillow and an iPad while she did her sessions.

This is really interesting and seems kinda random. Ex-MC would refer to his daughter by her name but then would just say "my son" (the younger one). Finally, after a few years, he mentioned his name...which was the same as the guy I dated in college.
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Default Jun 13, 2019 at 08:43 PM
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This is really interesting and seems kinda random. Ex-MC would refer to his daughter by her name but then would just say "my son" (the younger one). Finally, after a few years, he mentioned his name...which was the same as the guy I dated in college.
Yeah. I never understood what that was about but I never bothered to ask why she doesn’t say her name. I already knew her name. I thought maybe it was because the teenager had social media accounts or what not and the younger was much too young for that stuff. Then I also thought maybe the woman just really didn’t enjoy having a teenager. Those are hard years. I mean if I was my mother I would have killed me during my teen years. Haha.
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Default Jun 14, 2019 at 12:57 AM
  #36
Very early in therapy with former T, he mentioned his son's name, as "my son,-----." He had also referred to his wife by name. Neither of these were in response to any question from me. But he has always referred to his daughter as just "my daughter." I found that a bit odd. Made me wonder if we shared the same name. Although I rarely meet anyone with my name, it was a more popular choice in the 50's, so it could be possible. And it wasn't that he didn't disclose other personal info, both during therapy and after. I rarely asked him direct questions that would solicit personal info. But I can't think of anything else he's been steadfastly avoidant about revealing. Odd.

Current T offers far more info about her family and life than I care to know!
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Default Jun 14, 2019 at 04:15 AM
  #37
When is her birthday, not even the month! Her favourite colour. I've asked, yeah...
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Default Jun 14, 2019 at 04:19 AM
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Lol! I always wonder this when I ask them questions. For example, I ask them their favorite color. Why does there have to be a discussion? Do they think I'm going to decorate my house in that color? Why isn't it a simple, innocent, curious question?


Or birthdays. I don't understand why they won't tell me. It's not like I'm going to throw a party for them. Hell, I won't even acknowledge it if they don't want me to. They get to know my birthday, why can't I know theirs?
Exactly omg... T knows my birthday, it's in my EHR record. And the only thing I know about her birthday is it's in "the first half of the year".

She knows my full name because EHR and I don't even know her full name.
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Default Jun 14, 2019 at 06:36 AM
  #39
But LT, youre not doing journalism, youre doing therapy. And to address Annes example, i would say, it looks like shes prepping a witness! ("Only answer the question you are asked!") But i would guess a t has been prepped / trained the same way, to thoughtfully and carefully only answer the question he is asked.

This is not a typical conversation. Your presumption of (his) boundaries is something to be explored. I was the same way, and it can come off as rude in typical conversation. My parents didnt want me to ask ANY follow up questions, so i assumed the rest of the world didnt either. Thats not normal, unfortunately. Normal would be helping us to recognize what is NORMAL give and take in a conversation, and what IS getting too personal. Maybe thats what attracted us to journalism, permission to ask?
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Default Jun 14, 2019 at 06:58 AM
  #40
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But LT, youre not doing journalism, youre doing therapy. And to address Annes example, i would say, it looks like shes prepping a witness! ("Only answer the question you are asked!") But i would guess a t has been prepped / trained the same way, to thoughtfully and carefully only answer the question he is asked.

This is not a typical conversation. Your presumption of (his) boundaries is something to be explored. I was the same way, and it can come off as rude in typical conversation. My parents didnt want me to ask ANY follow up questions, so i assumed the rest of the world didnt either. Thats not normal, unfortunately. Normal would be helping us to recognize what is NORMAL give and take in a conversation, and what IS getting too personal. Maybe thats what attracted us to journalism, permission to ask?
I agree with the above. Part of the reason why therapy was not truly therapy-like with my second T was that the sessions were a lot like normal conversations, I would say >80% of the time. I certainly enjoyed them as the T was a very good conversation partner, but so are many other people in my life, and paying for that and calling it therapy?! That T managed it much better in email interactions. But even in normal conversations, some people are just more generous with information than others. For example, I tend to be on the minimalistic/frugal side with personal info when I talk with colleagues, clients, in most work-related interactions. My thinking is that a lot of that info is usually just not relevant there and it can easily divert the talk and turn it less productive when there are time constraints. I think it can be a form of art to find a good balance in this, not to appear too standoffish but keep the focus. As for therapists, what I know is that many do not answer questions because they want to use it to explore why the client is interested in that piece of info instead. For me personally, that can turn quite annoying if excessive but it can also be interesting, why do I want to know and why am I preoccupied with it, even with the fact that they are not so generous? I've learned interesting things about myself and good ways to draw people out that way, not so much in therapy but when interacting with people in everyday life (especially one who was my romantic partner for a while) that tend to be quite minimalistic (often also avoidant at least somewhat). One thing I've found is that people who tend to give one-liners as answers are often more than willing to reveal more but they do need follow-up questions and the other person to engage them more because they rarely do that by themselves. I've also learned that I am actually good at the engaging and it can be mutually quite stimulating, even just for the sake of figuring out how to do it effectively with a specific person. Of course therapists can remain quite resistant to this as they regulate their style on purpose, but I still think one can learn from these situations about own communication strengths and weaknesses.
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