Advice wanted.

Hi all

So I have a complicated situation I need advice on. I have a history with men. I feel much safer with them and all but the problem is, unlike with females, I KNOW I can have emotional connections to them and it scares me. So anytime, I have a non family male in my life, I start to "test" them and push them away or shut down and pull away. Causing me to have the same outcome, of hating and blaming myself for another fail

With my long term therapist, I had this, I was honest with him about it and I decided to push through, In a way I'm glad I did because I would have missed out on so many wonderful moments with him but at the same time, when he left me, It was the same message I often feel "You are too much, you are not enough" and that's made it even harder

I have no interest in attaching to a T again but this pattern is making it hard for me to even trust T3 to a level I'd like to. I am already doing the push/pull thing with him and shutting down.

The problem is, I finally have a new local guy friend, which is wonderful but, I feel like I am starting to trust him and starting to care about him and this is causing all these old feelings to blow up. I want to shut down and pull away.

I took a risk, like t3 encourages me to do, and I asked him if we could talk about my anxiety, he is gonna text me tonight about it... which is great but now I am wondering, how much is too much to share? He's been super open with his struggles but I also am again, constantly fearing I am too much. I feel like he needs to know this though, because if I shut down for days, it's not him, it's me. I also don't like the ignoring feeling, I understand he has a life and we are both introverts, we don't need to talk daily, but when days pass and I haven't heard from him, my mind starts to try to convince me, it's because he hates me and I've messed up, again, causing me to shut down and pull away

How much would you tell them? I also am thinking it might be a good idea, as hard as it is, to see t3 at least weekly now for a few months while I struggle through this and try to for once, really trust someone and break this dreadful pattern. I am already scared I will lose my friend after tonight though. Help

*I am seeing t3 Friday

questions. How long have you known this local guy friend an what is the nature of your relationship with him?
Another question: how do you know that HE is worthy of your trust?

Online since Feb.... and about a month in person

Friends... we are not dating if that's what you are wondering.

Another question: where do you want this relationship to go?

i don't know that but what is the harm in trying to trust someone? i wont get anywhere in life if i live with that mentality with everyone i meet.

why does all this matter??

i just want to not lose another guy friend

I would be honest about your struggles with anxiety. If he doesn't accept you when you tell him about it, then he's not worth your time. I know it's not easy though.

Also, the word "anxiety" is too broad I think. People use it to describe minor worry and also a crippling condition that keeps you from leaving the house. Not sure what there is to be done about that, but I think anxiety and depression have too many meanings. It seems to me like we need other words.

Then I wouldn't go into anything too much. Share a little bit then let it simmer, see how he reacts to it before sharing any more at a later date.

I think personal relationships always come with risk. If you never take risks because you got burned in the past, you may be able to stay safer and out of emotional turmoil but you will also deprive yourself from even the possibility of a meaningful, good connection. I guess you could start sharing things with this guy slowly and gradually, in small portions and time fragments? See how it goes and if he is trustworthy.

I also think that new relationships can be intoxicating even just due to the excitement of the novelty factor. It is pretty common that new friends communicate very intensely and then it gets more balanced with time. I think I have experienced this thing in virtually all meaningful relationships, sometimes it can get a bit out of control but it helps to know a lot of it is driven by the novelty factor. If you are afraid of being too much, maybe instead of push/pull, set yourself and your friend very clearly time intervals when you freely communicate even in the virtual world, instead of being available (and expecting him to be available) at all times. I guess we could call these a form of boundary. And try to stick with it. It can take quite some self-control but a good way not to mess up a promising and interesting new connection.

Talking openly about the anxiety can also be good IMO. But I would not jump into the deep waters straight, maybe just start with discussing that you tend to have these anxieties but don't get into causes and patterns, just say that you want to be open about it so that you won't be misunderstood. If he asks too many too private questions, just draw a clear line and say you don't want to get into that.

I don't know about T3 - you definitely have a push/pull pattern with him as well. If you find him helpful, just go and see him, why not really?

Yes you have good points here, without getting into too much personally here, the guy friend, has been open with me and virtually everyone on his FB about his struggles with drinking. He goes to therapy etc, he's been very open and personal about it all with me, so that's why I feel like it's "ok to be open" and not limit it as much as I normally would BUT I could just generally say it and then ask if he has questions and go from there on what my comfort level is. So yes, good idea

Def push/pull with T3 and he knows it... and he knows I think he's a jerk but also very helpful. I will see how it goes I guess, I am for sure taking ti slow with my friend. We don't talk daily and I am 100% ok with it we are both introverts and he's busy with work alot.

I just hate when there's silence for days and I start to blame myself.. and shut down. I was so sick about texting him earlier because I had spent all morning convincing myself he hated me but thankfully he replied and is open to talking.

t3 is probably the most condensing man I've ever known and he's hella attractive, which he knows I think so... and it makes it harder for me with eye contact but damn he's good, he knows the right **** to say to get me thinking and he handles all my anger casually with a smile lol. I'm not sure how he can help me here but i hope so. even if this guy friend doesnt work, i want to at least TRY to stop this insanity from happening in every male relationship in my future

I would just say something like I sometimes just very anxious with relationships and fear I am going to be to (complicated, needy, etc whatever is appropriate) for people in my life. when this happens I tend to shut down for a bit. It is something I am working on. please know if I do it to you it is nothing personal.

I think symmetry is important. Share to the level he shared, and then make sure the sharing stays relatively reciprocal. Keep it in balance.

I like this answer!

I think what Amyjay is asking about matters because both of your expectations determine the level of connection and how that shows itself. If you are just friends, and that's all you want, then I think part of friendship is being comfortable with a casual connection. I wouldn't get too deep with the "issues" talk. So if one of you doesn't call for a few days, so what? In other words, you don't each have a claim on the other's time and attention.


If you're saying "friend" but really are hoping for more--and enacting boundary expectations on that basis--that may well result in him pulling away. Try thinking of it in the reverse: if you wanted casual friendship only, and the other person were trying to claim your time and attention, pushing for emotional intimacy or care-taking, or exerting a higher level of influence than you wanted. How would you feel about it, and how would you act?


Another way to think about it is, do you enjoy your time together in the present moment? Or do you spend your time together concerned about what he will think and feel in the future? Friendships tend to operate in the present; relationships tend to have that aspect of the future within the present.


Friends each have their own needs and don't look to the other to fulfill them--that's an expectation of intimacy that's more than friendship.

i get this and again, being an introvert, we don't need daily talks. We both are fine not speaking daily... it's just when the time goes to several DAYS.... this is when i start to assume ive messed up and I shut down. usually i am able to figure out with women quickly whats ok with their limits and most women dont care if you text 20x a day or 2x a month. however with men it's different because there is the emotional aspect, at this point its care.

So here's a example... Female friend goes 5 days without contact, I don't think about it much at all unless we were supposed to meet up during that time.

Male friend goes 5 days without contact, I'm convinced they hate me and I've messed up. I pull away and shut down and struggle to trust them

Female friend cuts me out of their life. I basically just am like "Eh, she sucked anyway" and carry on about my day

Male friend cuts me out of their life..... and I am broken and hating myself, falling into depression and unable to trust again for a long time.

This is what I mean by pattern, however I should clarify this only applies to in person. It's why all my male friends tend to be online only. That;s also why this one is more anxiety provoking because its like every thing I say or do I think its gonna be wrong. I'd really like to kick it in the pants and stop this.

The fact that he's been so open with me about his own issues really makes me feel more comfortable with him in person but when we are not, my mind takes over again. The first time we met up, I told him about my social anxiety and he was very understanding.

I am confused - what do any of the therapists have to do with what you do with guy you want to be friends with? Are you going to therapy to figure out how to make friends (a completely legitimate thing that those therapist people could possibly help with I suppose) or what? If you just want a casual acquaintance-ship with the male person - I would not go whole hog into all your problems. To me, there would be no point and it might over-whelm the person. If the person is there because of how much X the both of you have and you are supporting each other -then maybe a bit more from time to time - but no one person is going to be able to meet all of anyone's needs or wants. Life is risky. I don't think trying to protect one's self again all hurt is much of a life. Hurt is no fun, but people usually survive it.

No, because its a pattern with all men... therapists included. Its something I want to break, hence therapy

I am not expecting anyone to meet all my needs, that's ridiculous but I do think honesty is important, I personally have no problem being open with anyone I consider a friend but history has proven that most people don't like oversharing, hence my post. I need to know how much is too much... but I am probably just gonna be general about it and let him ask things if he wants

Does he still have a drinking problem or struggles staying away from it, or it's just something he had in the past? In any case, I personally would be a bit wary of someone who puts that sort of thing all over on FB, publicly. But maybe it's just me since I also had a drinking problem in the past and I know how it seriously messed up my otherwise pretty solid boundaries. I know as fact that I am far from the only one. If someone openly uses their addiction issues to advocate for recovery or to help others, that can be fine if they are not afraid of compromising themselves... but just for the sake of it? I don't know. Your long-term T also wasn't exactly famous for having good boundaries... do you find yourself being drawn to people like that somehow (a bit push/pull like you)? If so, perhaps that's something to think about as a potential source of hurts and negative experiences?

The other impression I get is that you may have this pattern with men because you actually deprive yourself from having relationships with them that you probably crave deep down. I think it is pretty unlikely to go away if you continue doing that forever. I wrote a post on your attachment in therapy thread this morning - might be relevant here.

I have a female friend who's very involved with AA. She's a long-time, and I gather, pretty popular sponsor. I think she would see the FB stuff as "transparency" in AA terms. It's a way of being accountable and counters the often pervasive secrecy that manifests in some people's addiction experience. But it is an entirely different thing from one-on-one emotional intimacy, though I can see how it can feel the same.


IDK, DP. The way you write about male friends as so different from female friends makes me think you may have unrealized expectations at work.