Couch 203: The Spam and Cool Whip Couch!

Hello, couch brethren. Positive vibes all around.

I've been back to work since Monday, so though I've been reading some here, I haven't posted. Missed poop talk, apparently. Which is sad. I oddly enjoy a good poop discussion.

Tonight I was over at a friend's house, and somehow we ended up discussing childhood trauma. I disclosed part of my history with her, and now I feel pretty awful. Which isn't great because I'm home alone for the foreseeable future. I should just go to bed, but tiny me is feeling pretty miserable right now.

I thought you liked her.
Become a therapist? What a horrible curse.

My T replied to my email reply and now I'm debating terminating....the thing is, I know that much of this is likely transference and countertransference. Still, it feels like he's being kind of an a**hole to me, but I guess I'm being one to him as well? But....I'm hoping (partly due to my email reply) that he'll realize it's transference. And not really about him. But I still wonder if I need to leave. How do you figure out if it's a case of not wanting to face harsh truths about yourself? Versus a T who lets his own feelings get in the way too much? Like, he literally put in his reply to me: "But please don't threaten to leave. Leave, or don't leave." How do I take that? That's countertransference, right?

I don't see how that would be countertransference.

Me neither. I think hes simply saying, dont play the crying game like last time. Take responsibility.

To LT: Just thoughts here: if you have blurred boundaries and no one speaks up, then what? My mother thought i could tell from her dirty look. Could tell what?!

I hear that! Youre funny!

Maybe you can post the exchanges? It’s hard to tell from one or two sentences if he is being fair or not

Why would it be countertransference? It sounds like someone maintaining boundaries to me.

Do you want him to have countertransference towards you? Will that improve things? My impression of him is that by and large he does not let his feelings get in the way—and that that bothers you, because it means he’s not MC.

I think we all need to face harsh truths about ourselves. For some people therapy becomes a barrier to that (you know, “I’ve done the work, therefore there are no harsh truths to face”), for others it can be an aid with the right therapist. Which do you want it to be, and which kind of therapist is yours, the enabler or the one who shows you your true reflection and helps you deal with the reaction?

Me (earlier today, after extra session):


Can you remind me that you have faith that I can get through this? That as strong as addiction can be, I can be stronger? Not on my own, but with your help--and maybe with AA and/or naltrexone, too. Please give me some hope...

You did help today, and I really appreciate that--I could feel the caring emanating from you. But now I'm sitting here at home alone with my thoughts...and they aren't good ones. So...help?"

T: "You are asking me to give you hope. I would much prefer you to find it from believing in yourself, and turning to your friends and family who know you well. Talk to them about what you are feeling and get their support. Overcoming addiction is very challenging, and if you really want to put your effort and heart into it than I'm quite certain you can be successful. The things you mentioned can get you there, particularly AA - it will take more than just our work together if you want to be sober. As far as 'getting through this' I'm assuming you mean feelings of shame you have about yesterday evening? In truth, I think it will bother you for quite some time, but that's healthy and appropriate. When people do something that they regret, those feelings are supposed to inspire self-change. Harming or hating yourself is too much, and those feelings will fade soon, I believe. But feeling embarrassed and even ashamed is, in my opinion, a normal reaction. It is my very sincere hope that you will turn those feelings into motivation to make some positive and healthy changes to your drinking.
I'm glad you felt cared for in todays session. I do want you feel well, and to have faith in yourself. You'll get through this."

Me: "Thanks for the reply, but I think it actually made me feel worse...I just wanted you to give me hope, to say you believed in me. I know I should be looking for it from other people (and I did talk to H about it for a while tonight, which was good and helpful), but I'm asking for it from you. Maybe it's that you don't actually believe in me?

And it seems you think I should feel ashamed about last night. Which is just reinforcing my horrible thoughts about myself. I want you to help me stop hating myself. But today I felt your judgment about my drinking in everything you said, your body language, everything. It just confirmed my belief that I'm a total f***up.

Please give me hope. I'm not asking you to tell me to find hope inside myself or whatever. I want *you* to believe in me, and to tell me that you do. (If you don't think you can, then I need to find someone who will.)

(yes, I know you likely need to charge me for this, it's OK, I took extra work to pay for today's session and got much more work than I'd expected to, so I'm fine financially.)



"LT,
It's not up to me to get you to stop hating yourself - it's up to you to do that. I'm very sorry that you're feeling worse, that is certainly not what I would hoped to have happened. What I think you understand but are unwilling to accept is that you are asking me for many things that are not mine to give to you. Give you hope? Make you stop hating yourself? How are those things my responsibility, and is it appropriate to ask that of someone else? And if you were to get those things from me, why would you need to learn how to get them from yourself or others in your life? I feel like you'd be setting yourself up to get that comfort from me, or another therapist, forever.

I would like you to have hope, and I believe that everyone has the ability to improve, grow, change and do well. You have that ability. But it comes from you, not from me. You need to believe it is possible, and then you need to take it upon yourself to do those things that can make it happen. You came in today and it was you that told me that you were feeling ashamed, and that you think that you're 'totally ****ed up'. I never said those things, and if you want to impose them onto me, than you can do so, but you're putting words into my mouth that I never said.

What I wrote is that it is normal, and I believe healthy, to have feelings of embarrassment about behavior that we regret and would like to change. They are emotions that happen when a person feels he/she has done something 'wrong'. Those are the emotions that can motivate people to take action and do something different. They can inspire change. You have very clearly stated to me that you think your drinking is a problem, and I agree with you. I think that last evening could be the type of situation that makes a difference and moves you towards that goal.

I feel as though you are pushing your feelings about yourself onto me, and I do not think that doing so is fair. To my knowledge I've never expressed anything other than belief that you are able to make progress and do well. I'm sorry that you feel terrible, and hating yourself or wanting to die is too much to be putting on yourself for a mistake, and that's what last evening was, a mistake. You didn't do anything deliberately wrong, and nobody got hurt. But feeling embarrassed and not wanting to have something like that happen again is an appropriate reaction, and I hope you can see that, and learn from it.

I really can't think of another way to say this, so I'll be honest and direct. I do not appreciate your comment of 'I need to find someone who will'. It's not the first time you have made a comment of this kind, and I interpret it as a threat and manipulative. If you want to find someone else to work with, that is your right to do so and I support you. If you want to keep working with me, I support that as well and hopefully by now you realize that I will give my best effort to your counseling. But please do not threated to leave. Leave, or don't leave.

I appreciate your understanding about the finances regarding the time taken to email. Thank you. Hopefully you will feel stronger and more optimistic in the morning."

It’s blunt, and I see why it would be hard to read. But it’s honest, he’s right about quite a bit (like the things you ask for are largely on you) and I hope thought-provoking for you.

And there’s a really good question in there: what do you want from a therapist? Do you want the tools to change your life and improve it, or do you want a professional hand-holder for the rest of your life?

He can’t be MC, and he won’t be MC. And even MC wasn’t very MC-ish at the end.

Is he wrong in how he is interpreting your comment? If he is -tell him why he is. If he isn't - then decide if you are going to do as he has ordered. I wouldn't keep dealing with this guy because I think he is an authoritarian jerk-but I don't think he is wrong about the idea of most of what he put in his email and I don't see any of it as counter - transference.

LT, your T sounds spot on in his response. I don’t see counter transference either. Just healthy boundaries.

LT - I find your T's response to be too harsh even though it's honest. I do see his point of view, but I could never deal with someone like him. He's not going to change. Are you chasing after a man you can't have? Emotionally, not sexually. Does that make him safer for you? Are you testing boundaries? I'd say you hit one today.

I really just don't understand why you put up with this. Do you think you deserve this kind of *** as a T? MC had way too lose of boundaries. This guy too strong.

I just feel for you, LT. I wish you could find a good honest T who is also gentle at the same time. If when you do decide to find another T, try to find one that is attachment oriented. I'm sure some don't agree with my T or L, but both have been helpful to me in different ways.

Maybe, try to sit with these feelings, write here, talk to friends and family, then go see T at your next appointment. Try to resolve this and if you can't, start looking for a new T. Again, maybe one that specializes in attachment and maybe even addiction.

I think your T is just not a gentle T, he is super blunt and his email reads as condescending to me. So on one hand I agree that what he wrote makes sense but on the other he could be warmer and more understanding of your want for this, i mean like many people want this right, someone to support us in a nurturing way, and if we didn’t get it from parents it is painful as an adult. Even though T knows that he can’t give it another T might be more gentle in the way he delivers it. Some Ts would be gentler in keeping boundaries and see thar this comes from childhood, likely emotional neglect

I think you have to decide if this T style is what you want and if so make peace with it because he can’t change who he is for you and you’ll keep having ruptures

I agree with the points made by Dr. T in his email.

I am sorry that you are feeling so low, LT. I hope you can find some strength in yourself to draw on. Whether you decide to stick with him or not, I do think his feedback to you in this email has value, even though it is painful and unwelcome. Maybe you aren't able to consider his points right now because you were already feeling bad, but I hope you will at least save them to look at later and not discard them as the product of some sort of abreaction on his part.

I know I mentioned this to you once in the past, and I'll do it once more - there is such a thing in OCD as compulsive reassurance seeking. You could also look at it through the lens of addiction. Either way, it's designed to mitigate something - anxiety, hopelessness, shame, etc.

Lt - I'm sorry you are in so much pain over this. His response is blunt and direct and that would be something I would like - but you have a personality that this sort of response will trigger negative feelings.

However, I am very impressed in your ability to read people's comments toward T's and your behavior and not get defensive - that's an excellent sign of someone willing to change and grow!

People here are getting drawn into a discussion about your therapist, transference, countertransference, your therapeutic needs, the therapeutic relationship. Your statements around self-harm, wanting to die, self-loathing are mostly being unattended. Are we experiencing here what you experience in therapy with this therapist - you (unconsciously?) create a lot of discussion around "meta-therapy" ideas in order that your core issues can continued to be ignored? In turn, is this something of what happened in your childhood - feeling that your core needs were unaddressed?

I say this without criticism of anyone (possibly except your therapist who frankly should be better attuned). It reads as an enactment and I wanted to reflect that back to you. I hope you are safe, I suspect you know the drill if you aren't - crisis lines, hospital, be with someone who is safe, all that jazz.

I am so sad, I bought a lovely piece of steak but because I have had a few molars removed and the public health dentist won't do dentures for me I found it hard to chew it to consistency for swallowing, I nearly choked several times.

Like you, I prefer a straight shooting, blunt therapist like this. He’s not wrong; he’s telling it like it is. But if that style doesn’t work for you, it doesn’t work for you. You are unlikely to get him to change his style of communication for you though.

LT.. You know I’m anti therapy but I agree with Dr. T on this one. He’s being a therapist. All his point were valid. HOWEVER, I can see how you would be upset with him being very very blunt if that’s not your style. I like blunt, but some don’t and that’s okay if it doesn’t work for you.