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Default Aug 19, 2019 at 09:01 AM
  #1
I realize this sounds nuts, gentle comments only please. I come from an unloving environment where I have felt largely unloved. After years of therapy I felt closer to my therapist then maybe I ever have to anyone. My marriage was crumbling and I had a physical issue land me in the hospital, part of me worried I was dying. At the same time my therapist was getting married and adopting children. Around this time I told my therapist I loved him and I wanted him to be happy. I painted this definition of a love that had nothing to do with sex and asked him if he loved me, he refused to answer.
I cant push this issue because even the little I've put my toe in crushed me. I realize it's just words, but it seems to trigger certain thoughts in me that are at the core of my depression. For example, that there is always some reason I am unlovable, there is always some reason that is not for me. It's hurt me so much I stopped going, I am trying to wean away even though I probably need more support than ever right now. All I keep thinking is why? Why not say it, even if its a lie? I love all sorts of people, but somehow I am not worthy of anyones love.
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Default Aug 19, 2019 at 09:27 AM
  #2
I think (don't take this the wrong way) healthy people have a, good sense of boundaries. They have a fulfilling life outside, the therapy room. There is no need for them to fall in love in the therapy room.
They care about you as a person and get satisfaction from helping.
Don't forget. It's us that sought then out to help with our wounds. Many wounds being as you describe. Who do they love? You? The next client? The client before. Lots of clients have your desires/fantasy
Does that mate sense, the T would be toxic if they tried being all things to all people
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Default Aug 19, 2019 at 09:44 AM
  #3
There are lots of reasons a therapist does not say "I love you" to a client. As you have noted, love is a loaded topic and comes with lots of different assumptions and triggers. Love also has so many different meanings.

The only way to know and work your way through this is to continue to go see your therapist and talk to him about it - why he might not have responded to your question, how that lack of response impacted you, what him saying no and yes would have meant and how it would have been for you... and so on.

For many of us, understanding and working with love and anger/hate is a lot of the work.

ETA - My T has never said 'I love you' to me while it being her feelings about me. She's said the words in the act of reading something to me. It took a very long time before she could even say the words without it being a triggering item for me. She has said she cares about me. She's also affirmed/confirmed my statements when I say that she loves me. Will she ever say that she loves me directly to me? Maybe someday. I'm not sure I need her to say the words. I believe she does love me.

I tell her I love her often, like almost daily. We talk about when the urge is strong; when I do it because it's a habit; and when I do it because I'm afraid not doing it will leave her feeling hurt or confused. She's been clear that it's ok if I say it and it's ok if I don't. It's ok if I'm mad at her. In any of these states within myself, she knows I love her.
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Default Aug 19, 2019 at 09:46 AM
  #4
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There is no need for them to fall in love in the therapy room... Who do they love? You? The next client? The client before. Lots of clients have your desires/fantasye
I was not looking to hear that he's "in love" with me, to me there is a massive difference between "in love" (sexual obsession) and "love." The whole context being what it was, with him getting married, I hoped that was clear. And I get that a therapist saying he's in love with me would be wrong even if it was true.

That said I did think I was special as a client. I'd been going for so many years, I figured that alone meant he had to love me... and he seemed to support that I was special to him. Deep down I know he has other clients, I kinda assumed he would "love" many of them.

He likes the word "care" and I really don't. To me care is not involuntary, it's an effort made for money. Like I pay a doctor for care. I guess I am too hung up on the words and meanings and definitions now. And it didn't help at all that I got a second therapist and she told me she loved me within a month.

I guess the bottom line is too, I don't want to care anymore. I don't know why I do so much even, honestly. It seems like I just wanted to know that of the people I love some at least loved me back, if that even makes sense at all...
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Default Aug 19, 2019 at 11:29 AM
  #5
It makes sense to me that you needed to feel that he loved you. Therapy is an extraordinary and intimate relationship, you bared your soul to him, you had an extraordinary closeness, he knew all your pain, he cared for you, and it is human to feel love for someone in those circumstances. Perhaps he loved you but just believed that it would be wrong to say it, perhaps he feared litigation? Perhaps it is because he was a fallible human that he couldn’t say it.
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Default Aug 19, 2019 at 11:41 AM
  #6
I believe therapists do love clients...at least some therapists love some clients. There are two different things at play here: does he love you and will he say he loves you? My use of the word "love" is fairly liberal. I use it with my mom and my husband and my cats and my therapist and some friends. My husband on the other hand will not say it to anyone but me, not even his sisters. I find that odd because he obviously does love his sisters, but he simply can't or won't say it even though they say it to him.

So your therapist may just not use the word as freely as you do. Another reason he might not say it though is that he is a male therapist and you are a female client and some people equate "love" with "sex." So even if you don't mean sexual love and even if he knows you don't mean it, he also has to think about the ethics board and how would they interpret it?

Even if you could "make" him say it, that wouldn't help. I'd try to talk to him more about what you really want to know: are you loveable? And as far as his feelings about you are there any you would both be comfortable with? Acceptance? Like? Affection? Fondness? Value?
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Default Aug 19, 2019 at 11:42 AM
  #7
What if they said something like they “care about what happens to you”. Or maybe if you brought up what you just said here, that you fear that the therapist ONLY “cares” about you in a strict professional sense when he uses that word, you might be able to work through the feeling that word causes and come to a better understanding of your relationship.

Love is a strong word. Love, to me, means that this is someone you would have a very hard time living without. It takes a while for that to build- where care- care is something that can be applied more generally. I think it kind of is, this is my personal opinion, inappropriate for a therapist to tell a client they love them- because love is something that has to go both ways- there are mutual expectations when it comes to love- and I feel like that would actually be really unfair to the client at the end of the day for them to have the focus actually taken off of them like that. There is a reason ethical guidelines exist- they arent just some cold thing there to hurt the therapist- they are there to protect the patient at the end of it all.

Because at the end of it all- if a therapist is going to care for you, they CANT love you in my opinion. It wouldnt be fair to either of you.
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Default Aug 19, 2019 at 11:57 AM
  #8
It's completely understandable that you feel the need for T's love. I have been there too. When you say he refused to answer, did he literally make no comment at all? I would find that exceptionally hard. I hope that he is open about exploring your feelings about his reaction because a refusal to answer would be deeply triggering for most people.

I don't think it's wrong or taboo to want T's love, but love is such a complicated term. Some Ts believe therapy is all about love, but that kind of love for a human being is obviously different to the type of love a parent has for a child, or friends share, or romantic partners etc. I know you're not looking for romantic love from him and I didn't read your post that way at all. I wonder if your T is refusing to answer because he doesn't want to risk using the term, not that he doesn't feel deep human love for you as his client. Either way, he should be open to exploring the issue with you because of the hurt it has caused. I'm so sorry you have been left feeling this way.
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Default Aug 19, 2019 at 12:51 PM
  #9
Maybe he doesn't love you, maybe he doesn't love anyone, maybe he wants to keep clear boundaries in place, maybe he thinks hearing the words will not ultimately help you, maybe he doesn't think you are in a place where you can hear his meaning of love. Whatever his reasons (and the only person to ask is him), it is likely that he didn't answer you because he thought the answer would not be healing. Hearing those words from your therapist is not the dream experience which you might be imagining.
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Default Aug 20, 2019 at 12:21 AM
  #10
To me, who has no mother, if my therapist said she loved me I'd subconsciously interpret her to mean she wanted to be my mom. That would essentially be the end of our relationship.

I have said "I love you" to my therapist. She's smart and asks me if a child part is feeling attached to her. Then we work with that part.

If my therapist were to say "I love you" it would so mess me up the relationship would be over.
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Default Aug 20, 2019 at 08:03 AM
  #11
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Because at the end of it all- if a therapist is going to care for you, they CANT love you in my opinion. It wouldnt be fair to either of you.
I'm not sure I understand this but certainly disagree. What about psychotherapy the "the love cure?" And what kind of "love" is that selfish?
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Default Aug 20, 2019 at 08:16 AM
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It's completely understandable that you feel the need for T's love. I have been there too. When you say he refused to answer, did he literally make no comment at all? I would find that exceptionally hard. I hope that he is open about exploring your feelings about his reaction because a refusal to answer would be deeply triggering for most people.

I don't think it's wrong or taboo to want T's love, but love is such a complicated term. Some Ts believe therapy is all about love, but that kind of love for a human being is obviously different to the type of love a parent has for a child, or friends share, or romantic partners etc. I know you're not looking for romantic love from him and I didn't read your post that way at all. I wonder if your T is refusing to answer because he doesn't want to risk using the term, not that he doesn't feel deep human love for you as his client. Either way, he should be open to exploring the issue with you because of the hurt it has caused. I'm so sorry you have been left feeling this way.
Thank you. I am not handling this well at all. I forget specifically how he refused but he did steadfastly refuse. He gave a lot of vague responses, like he cares etc, so really it sounded like "no" but he also said it wasn't a "no" when I asked if he was saying no.

I am just very confused still, and this was months ago. I am too embarrassed to bring it up again because I feel like it would come across as pleading and manipulative. It came up twice. I even asked him, was he worried about a negative connotation if he did say "yes" and he said "no," i.e. his refusal to answer had nothing to do with me taking it the wrong way.

People are always bringing up "yeah but even if he did it would be different..." and yeah I get it. Even if he did "love" me it would be some lesser love, i.e. I am not his child, his lover, I am just some person who has paid him a lot of money to hear me whine about my loneliness. I just think if he did "care" even a little, if he had any idea how much this hurts me, he could just lie to me and let me think I meant something to someone. And I feel sooo off base, because I thought he did. How can I ever trust myself?
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Default Aug 20, 2019 at 09:27 AM
  #13
I hear your pain about this, I really do. It's that yearning to be deeply loved for ourselves in a special way, and I think it's a totally natural thing especially among those of us who unfortunately didn't receive this love as a child in the way we needed. I understand how T might have said some things but they got lost when you didn't hear what you wanted/needed from him.

I hope it may be possible to explore your feelings with him in time, perhaps making clear to him that you're not begging for something he won't/can't give, but that you're really hurting about this and need to look at it more. He should be willing and able to provide the space for this because it's a major issue and a core wound by the sound of it. It's really important because it could cause a rupture especially if you're questioning the genuineness of the relationship with him.

I have seen therapists who steadfastly believe that there are many different forms of love and that psychotherapy is an act of love when alls said and done. True love isn't selfish - it's caring deeply and as unconditionally as possible about another human being and wanting the absolute best for them, even if the best doesn't benefit the person who loves. However I understand that many if not most would not feel able to admit this to a client because it might not be received in the way it was intended. I don't know if your T is one such T or perhaps he just don't work that way. Either way it absolutely okay to feel the way you do. And it doesn't mean T doesn't feel anything for you or care deeply about you - I'm sure he does. I know therapists who have said it's near on impossible to work deeply with another human being and not feel for them, not care deeply, however they choose to define that.
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Default Aug 20, 2019 at 08:54 PM
  #14
My therapist has said multiple times that they can't do their job without feeling love. But of course they can't say it, it's unethical. You have to FEEL it.
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Default Aug 21, 2019 at 06:13 AM
  #15
I agree that many therapists feel (something that could be called) love for many of their clients. It's interesting to me that there is this (relatively) pervasive belief that it's unethical for therapists to tell clients that they love them. Is this what therapists are telling their clients?

It's not unethical to tell a client that you love them. It IS unethical to do harm to a client, so if telling a particular client that you love them would harm them, trigger them, make them feel unsafe, etc. then sure, it could be unethical. But it is not universally unethical. Just like touch is not universally unethical, or sharing a meal with a client, or having multiple/overlapping relationships, or accepting gifts. All of these things introduce additional risk into the therapy, but they also have the potential to help heal, so it's up to the therapist-client dyad to determine if it's a) appropriate for the therapy and b) something the client desires and c) something the therapist can/will provide.

I think some therapists use the blanket statement, "it's unethical" far too readily, so they don't have to take on any risk, think very hard about each situation, or work it through with the client. It's one thing to say "I have a policy of not...," it's quite another to say that something is universally unethical.
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Default Aug 21, 2019 at 06:56 AM
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I agree that many therapists feel (something that could be called) love for many of their clients. It's interesting to me that there is this (relatively) pervasive belief that it's unethical for therapists to tell clients that they love them. Is this what therapists are telling their clients?

It's not unethical to tell a client that you love them. It IS unethical to do harm to a client, so if telling a particular client that you love them would harm them, trigger them, make them feel unsafe, etc. then sure, it could be unethical. But it is not universally unethical. Just like touch is not universally unethical, or sharing a meal with a client, or having multiple/overlapping relationships, or accepting gifts. All of these things introduce additional risk into the therapy, but they also have the potential to help heal, so it's up to the therapist-client dyad to determine if it's a) appropriate for the therapy and b) something the client desires and c) something the therapist can/will provide.

I think some therapists use the blanket statement, "it's unethical" far too readily, so they don't have to take on any risk, think very hard about each situation, or work it through with the client. It's one thing to say "I have a policy of not...," it's quite another to say that something is universally unethical.
I completely agree with this. I feel v fortunate that I am working with a t who brings herself into the room wholeheartedly because she believes in the power of doing that with me.
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Default Aug 21, 2019 at 11:21 AM
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Thank you. I am not handling this well at all. I forget specifically how he refused but he did steadfastly refuse. He gave a lot of vague responses, like he cares etc, so really it sounded like "no" but he also said it wasn't a "no" when I asked if he was saying no.

I am just very confused still, and this was months ago. I am too embarrassed to bring it up again because I feel like it would come across as pleading and manipulative. It came up twice. I even asked him, was he worried about a negative connotation if he did say "yes" and he said "no," i.e. his refusal to answer had nothing to do with me taking it the wrong way.

People are always bringing up "yeah but even if he did it would be different..." and yeah I get it. Even if he did "love" me it would be some lesser love, i.e. I am not his child, his lover, I am just some person who has paid him a lot of money to hear me whine about my loneliness. I just think if he did "care" even a little, if he had any idea how much this hurts me, he could just lie to me and let me think I meant something to someone. And I feel sooo off base, because I thought he did. How can I ever trust myself?
There are so many reasons that he might not want to say it, that I think that immediately going to the place that says "I'm unlovable" is not warranted. That said, I totally understand how that can happen. You put a lot into that relationship. You were open and honest and expressed that you love him and he did not respond back in a way that you needed to hear. That hurts. And it's a completely valid and understandable feeling.

If this were me I would interpret this as a therapy interfering behavior, which is a DBT concept, but I think it fits for any type of therapy. Usually this is looked at as something a client does, like come late to sessions, but it can be something that a therapist does too, like this. Regardless of his reasons for not saying "I love you," it's affecting your progress in therapy. It's making you feel worse, so I think that you need to address it.

I would do it like this, either verbally or by handing him a piece of paper that said something like this: "A few months ago I asked you if you loved me and you refused to answer. I can't stop thinking about it and it's becoming a problem for me. When you wouldn't say that I felt like you were saying that I was unlovable, and that hurt a lot. Can we discuss it? I'd like to know why you wouldn't say it and if you think that I'm unlovable."

If he's a good therapist he will respond by explaining his views on love in therapy and by addressing your fear of being unlovable. You aren't unlovable, nobody is, but I think you'd believe it more if it came from someone who knows you, like him.
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