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MoxieDoxie
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Default Sep 07, 2019 at 06:37 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Oliviab View Post
It is now 4 years later, over 350 sessions, and it has been a hell of a ride. At times, I thought I would not survive, or certainly not intact. I have wanted to flee him over and over again, and I have felt hurt by him over and over again. We fell into a never-ending pattern of re-enactments that resulted in his nearly terminating me four months ago. He said he could not "ethically" continue to be my primary therapist, that I was at risk of getting harmed in our work together. I wanted to tell him, did tell him, that it was too late, and furthermore, that an abrupt and unilateral termination would only cause further harm. He did listen to me, and said we would try to come to a decision together.

I had been asking, begging, him for months to help me stop the re-enactments by changing his own reactions. I kept telling him that I knew I needed to do things differently, but that I couldn't do it alone, that I needed him to change his part in things. He, too, seemed unable to change his part in things, to even see his part in things. (This is, I think, the primary problem. Therapists place all the "blame" on clients and fail to or refuse to see their own role in things. There is far too much emphasis placed on transference and not nearly enough on countertransference in therapy.)

Ultimately...it seems we are making our way out of the black hole. It has taken heroic effort on both of our parts. Part of that heroic effort was my continuing to stand up for myself and not allow him to always be right. This was so, so hard, because of the power imbalance, because therapy is set up such that I am the f'ed up one in the room and he is the "expert." It also required an incredible amount of humility on my T's part, more than I think most people are capable of. He sought consultation multiple times from an expert in my diagnosis, and he encouraged me to work with another therapist at the same time as him to bring another perspective to things. This therapist was amazing, and he continually encouraged me to believe my own instincts and not let my T's reality dictate my reality. At times, it felt like he was my coach in a boxing match with my therapist--he kept telling me I could do it, I was strong enough, to get back in there and fight for my right to exist in my relationship with my therapist. My therapist also sought consult from this therapist, which helped.

I did not think we would make it, but now I think we will. I can see a way out of the black hole, and I finally (FINALLY!) feel like my T and I are in it together, fighting the forces that keep trying to suck me/us into the vortex. There were times when it felt like he was (inadvertently and unintentionally) one of those forces, but things are different now. (It has taken me some time to trust that they will remain different, but they have been now for several months, and I am beginning to trust him more.)
Your therapist is an enigma. Your therapist sought consult and got therapy from her therapy with you and encouraged you to simultaneously seek counsel from another therapist just to work with your current therapist. That is just amazing and I never heard of another therapist doing that. They usually just jump ship.

That is phenomenal.

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When a child’s emotional needs are not met and a child is repeatedly hurt and abused, this deeply and profoundly affects the child’s development. Wanting those unmet childhood needs in adulthood. Looking for safety, protection, being cherished and loved can often be normal unmet needs in childhood, and the survivor searches for these in other adults. This can be where survivors search for mother and father figures. Transference issues in counseling can occur and this is normal for childhood abuse survivors.
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Default Sep 07, 2019 at 06:48 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Oliviab View Post
One thing I accidentally left out of my story and that is a critical element is that I had to work towards being able to leave my therapist. It occurred to me amidst the terror of a threatened termination that no matter what he did, even if he made all of the changes I was asking him to do, our therapy was never going to work as long as I felt unable to leave him. (And for a long, long while, I felt like leaving him was impossible, and it felt like if he left me, it would mean utter devastation.)

As long as I couldn't leave him, there would always be a massive power imbalance in the relationship that meant I would continue to get hurt, even if his actions, words, and attitudes were impeccable. I was able, slowly and painfully, to do this. I'm not entirely sure how, but it did involve working with this other (adjunct therapist) to shore up my confidence, lots of journaling, lots of crying and grieving what would never be, marshaling the support of family and friends, and interviewing a host of other potential therapists, so I knew what would happen next if things were to end with my therapist.
thanks for sharing your empowering story Olivia.

i found myself in a similar place with my ex-T and also did exactly what you said here, i had to build the courage and work towards being able to leave, and break the bonds with my therapist, unscathed. unbeknownst to my T, that became my major goal during my final year of therapy, which i did with the assistance of my hubby and seeking nuerofeedback therapy. for me, this final year was full of a lot of personal inner growth with a new sense of empowerment that i had never experienced before. i finally felt like i was in control, no longer fearful, and as that sense of control and personal empowerment grew, i reached the point where i knew i no longer 'needed' my T to be such a significant part of my life and acknowledged that there was very little he could actually provide me, in regards to my personal healing, that i could not get elsewhere (like in the relationship with my dear hubby). i was ready to fly from the nest and when i shared that with my T it definilty came as a shock to him. although things had drastically changed in how i was reacting in therapy and towards him in our relationship (my strong transference reactions and re-enactments had faded) and while having the repeated conversations of how i was finding talk therapy frustrating and at times damaging, mainly due to his own reactions and counter-transference, he failed to see this ending coming and was taken aback when it came.

i've been quite fortunate that my ex-T has been humble enough to allowing post-termination contact. it has been through these informal meet ups we have had over last couple years that has provided me, and him, the opportunity to come to understand and repair the many past hurts, misunderstandings and damage that occurred in our relationship together. my ex-T was willing to hold himself accountable and apologise for many of his mistakes. he has even taken steps to help improve and better himself. i have been touched by his courage and his openness to share that with me.

with the help of the post-termination contact and continuous self healing work i've been doing since ending therapy, i feel confident that i have been successful in reaching the point where i can now view and embrace my ex-T with a heart full of compasion and understanding instead of bitterness, anger, hurt, frustration and most of all disappointment. recently, upon our last meetup, i shared this with him. we talked about how i had come to the realisation and understanding that many of his flaws and hurtful reactions (enactments) towards me came from a place of fear within him, a fear he may not had been fully cognoscente of or willing to acknowlege during our work together. it was through the compasion towards myself, that i realised it did not feel right or comfortable for me to be angry and disappointed at him simply for being fearful, frail, and human. it was through this compasion that i had for both myself and him, that i have been able to move forward and finally put closure to the painful hurts i had been carrying all these years, well before therapy even ended.

not sure if that makes sense....for me it was a quite a profound and healing moment to experince this final closure. i can confidently say that i feel at peace now about my therapy experince and, most of all, the very confusing, conflicted, and at times chaotic relationship with my ex-T. and that brings me to your final statement, which is the perfect way to end my response because this is beautifully said and absolutely true for me as well and worth repeating:

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Originally Posted by Oliviab View Post
My journey is obviously just that, my journey, and so what worked for me may not be what others need or what they have available to them.
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Default Sep 07, 2019 at 09:07 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie View Post
Your therapist is an enigma. Your therapist sought consult and got therapy from her therapy with you and encouraged you to simultaneously seek counsel from another therapist just to work with your current therapist. That is just amazing and I never heard of another therapist doing that. They usually just jump ship.

That is phenomenal.
I agree that my therapist is extraordinary. I am not exaggerating when I say that I'm not sure 1 in 100 therapists would or could do what he did. I think things would have ended very badly if I had been with most anyone else. As it was, they still very nearly ended badly, even with a really excellent therapist who is willing to go to such lengths. Which is why I now think of therapy as potentially risky.

Looking back, and even in the most painful times, I could not fault him for the attachment, dependence, transference, etc. He did nothing to foster those things--they just roared to life when I felt seen and heard. It's unfortunate that therapists do not know how to handle this, because it happens all too often.

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Originally Posted by koru_kiwi View Post
.i found myself in a similar place with my ex-T and also did exactly what you said here, i had to build the courage and work towards being able to leave, and break the bonds with my therapist, unscathed. unbeknownst to my T, that became my major goal during my final year of therapy, which i did with the assistance of my hubby and seeking nuerofeedback therapy. for me, this final year was full of a lot of personal inner growth with a new sense of empowerment that i had never experienced before...[snip]

with the help of the post-termination contact and continuous self healing work i've been doing since ending therapy, i feel confident that i have been successful in reaching the point where i can now view and embrace my ex-T with a heart full of compassion and understanding instead of bitterness, anger, hurt, frustration and most of all disappointment. recently, upon our last meetup, i shared this with him...[snip]

not sure if that makes sense....
This makes complete sense to me. I am so glad that you were able to work towards that in your final year of therapy and to have after-termination contact that allowed you some closure. I think your story, too, is extraordinary with an inspiring (and rare) ending.

Once I decided that I needed to become able and willing to leave my therapist, I brought this realization to him, and he was very supportive. He did not want the power imbalance that was inherent in our relationship, but he didn't seem to know how to change it. So the work you did unbeknownst to your therapist, I am doing with my therapist's knowledge. And some of the after-termination conversations you have had with your therapist, including his growth and acknowledgement of mistakes, I am having with my therapist in the course of my therapy.

Another very important part of my story that seems to be sadly lacking in many of these therapy-gone-wrong stories, is that despite the painful attachment, transference, and re-enactments, I have experienced tremendous growth during the course of my therapy. Without going into any details, I can say that it has been transformative, and has been since the very beginning. I feel like a different person, which is to say, I have come into myself in my work with him. Even in the midst of the most painful time, with the threat of termination hanging over me, I could not regret knowing my therapist, because I am alive now in a way I never was before. I could not even really wish away the pain, because it was evidence that I am alive, and that is preferable to being numb and only half-alive like I was before.

I know that is not true of many people who experience painful endings or who get stuck in therapy. It seems like there are all too many stories with all the pain and none of the transformation, which is just not right.
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Default Sep 07, 2019 at 09:42 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by here today View Post

The re-traumatization isn't just "re-", as my last therapist and her consultant seemed to think. It's independent traumatization all on its own, even if some of the conditions for it to occur are influenced by something the client came into therapy with. That's something that really needs to be recognized by the profession big time, IMO.
Exactly. So much of their lexicon is built around blame deflection. Counter-transference is another one... implies that if the therapist acts like an a**hole it's merely a response to something the client did.

Also what's absurd is if the transference/counter-transference thing spirals out of control and a bunch of sessions are spent working thru this, then effectively the therapist is using the relationship to work out their own issues, while also getting paid.

How do I swindle thee, let me count the ways...
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Default Sep 09, 2019 at 10:02 AM
  #25
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Indeed, the magnitude of loss is difficult to even grasp - I'm sorry you have to deal with that. Hats off for holding onto what you did achieve, and for standing up for yourself!

@Oliviab, thank you so much for sharing your experience, it was cathartic to read! I'm glad and amazed that you managed to get through it!

I guess I was hoping to achieve something similar with my ex-T, so it's ... validating ... I felt like an utter fool for hoping at all, so knowing it can happen, but also seeing what it took on both of your parts makes it easier to accept what happened (and what didn't) in my own therapy.

Also thanks to everyone else sharing their stories, reading the variety of stories (not limited to this thread) of therapy gone wrong helps to steer my feelings towards appreciating my own T for trying what she could, instead of being disappointed in her for not being the 1 in 100 (and in myself for giving up).
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Default Sep 10, 2019 at 09:52 PM
  #26
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Exactly. So much of their lexicon is built around blame deflection. Counter-transference is another one... implies that if the therapist acts like an a**hole it's merely a response to something the client did.

Also what's absurd is if the transference/counter-transference thing spirals out of control and a bunch of sessions are spent working thru this, then effectively the therapist is using the relationship to work out their own issues, while also getting paid.

How do I swindle thee, let me count the ways...
The definition of countertransference does not imply the therapist acting like an asshole is merely a response to something the client did. The whole point of the concept is that the therapist is also acting out their own unresolved issues back at the client and that their reaction is not to be laid solely at the feet of the client. That's what makes it counter-TRANSFERENCE.

I do agree that an absurdity of the transference/countertransference paradigm is that therapists are constantly working on their own stuff at clients.

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Default Sep 11, 2019 at 04:16 AM
  #27
Counter-Transference example that just showed its ugly head with my therapist.

I accused him of not being truthful and being mad. He put up walls, became more stiff, and told me it was time to cut sessions down.

Big rupture for weeks. Came to a head last sessions where he finally told the truth. I triggered him (counter-transference) because his mother always accused him of feeling a certain way when he did not. Has had therapy around this issue and is till working on it.

That is a perfect example of counter-transference.

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Default Sep 11, 2019 at 06:43 PM
  #28
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The whole point of the concept is that the therapist is also acting out their own unresolved issues back at the client and that their reaction is not to be laid solely at the feet of the client. That's what makes it counter-TRANSFERENCE.
Why not just call it transference?

And why is the client's reaction to the therapist's acting out not called countertransference?

It's a rigged game, and the goal is to establish hierarchy, and the language reflects that.
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Default Sep 11, 2019 at 08:01 PM
  #29
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Why not just call it transference?

And why is the client's reaction to the therapist's acting out not called countertransference?


i've often wondered this as well
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Default Sep 12, 2019 at 10:38 PM
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I had been seeing my therapist for a billion years. and she had been very good. about 6 years ago I moved out of state and we continued our sessions by phone. I became much more independent, which was fine. but we still had sessions, scaled them back from what they were. she knew pretty much all there was to know about me, we had worked out emergency responses etc, everything.

over the past year or so I noticed a slight change...a little mentioning that she was now the "best therapist in " -----" county, etc. I noticed some stock responses, maybe not so much listening or "hearing what I was saying" last January I had some issues and I was speaking to her about them, and it was as tho I was speaking to a stranger. every plan we had in place for years was no gone, instead it was call the police immediately, she harped on just go out and find a 2nd job (in an area where 1st jobs are tough) etc. a total stranger's responses.

that was it. when I called her on it she said she was only doing what was best for me. well what was best for me was to end therapy right then & there. years of relationship was gone. she treated me like I was some brand new person she just met and didn't care about...not someone patient who had been with her for 10 yrs. I ended therapy then. told her I ws done. she was shocked, said I "needed her" and most certainly should continue. it's been since January and I am just fine. she has called once to check in and try to get me back...ain't happening. it hurt...her reaction and knowing I was just some appointment now that she was the "best" ….

it's a shame when good people get sucked in with their own ego's and forget exactly why they are in practice. she never apologized other then saying she was sorry for pushing the 2nd job. really? I went back & checked her reviews and have noticed some bad ones....not a good look for the "best".
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Default Sep 13, 2019 at 01:42 PM
  #31
Very glad to hear you became more independent and that you could see and feel what was best for you, on your own, and that you definitely did not "need" her.

It definitely is too bad that your therapist had been good but then her ego got sucked into being that, all the time and in every situation. And in "being needed", maybe. Glad things worked out for you OK, but I can definitely understand that it hurt. Sad, for both of you it sounds like.
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Default Sep 13, 2019 at 08:57 PM
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it's funny, since then there have been some situations where I probably could have used some therapy help, but I handled it all on my own. some good situations and some pretty hairy ones. I am able to stand alone and deal with my own crap. it was good that it happened..otherwise I never would have been strong..or felt strong enough to walk away.
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