My psychotherapy journey

I was bemoaning the fact, on another thread, that there aren’t – or I haven’t come across – any stories of people who successfully make it through the chaos and deep hole of – I don’t even know what to call it. I know for myself what the black hole was like – I went down it intellectually, consciously willingly, despite the pain and the fear and other negative emotions, trusting that “no pain no gain” and that I would make it through, with my therapist’s help and her knowledge and being-there.

Only it didn’t work out that way.

It’s been 4 years since my last therapist said she “didn’t have the emotional resources” to continue the therapy, and terminated. It wasn’t a brick wall termination, like I’ve read happened to some people. We discussed things in person, without me paying anything – after I wrote her and asked for a refund for the last year. I did do that much to advocate for myself. (Not without a lot of fear and anger, but somehow I managed that enough to write something that was decently civil.) And she also responded to some emails that I sent after we stopped talking in person, maybe 5-6 times.

I’ve continued to ruminate and try to process the emotions that came up as a result of therapy – some from the past but some from the unsatisfactory, expensive, extremely long therapy process. I listen to key words and phrases that come to my cognition from time to time. Like my “unconscious”, relational side is giving me some clues – or that the relational and cognitive are working together, somehow. I don’t know – everybody is probably different on that, art therapy may help some people or even music.

Something came to me recently – a biggie, I think, but specific only to me. I’ll share it anyway. “I lost the ability to make and have friends because of a competitive, angry streak.”

As I internally voiced that to myself from the feeling, or maybe just allowed the words to form?, I felt the loss, and felt sad. Over the last week or so I have been getting more information about that “streak” and familiarity with it, which used to be a dissociated part, from everything I knew and the ways I thought about things when I was with the last, trauma and dissociation, therapist.

I had friends in elementary school, and lost that ability after my aunt’s husband molested me at 13. How and why it happened that way now make sense to me, internally, but maybe wouldn’t to many other people. And, yes, things/trauma that happened earlier in my life contributed to the way things went with the molestation incident. The important thing, probably, is that it makes sense to me, gives me some better understanding and acceptance of myself – maybe, time will tell. And I do have some friends now, have been able to follow along with efforts that others in the support group I’ve been in for 5 years have made. So I had a better sense of what I had lost – otherwise that might have been hard to impossible to dig up.

But gee golly whiz – 57 years since I first went to therapy for an eating disorder to get to this point?

So much loss. . .Don’t know what, of anything, can be recovered. Time will tell.

Just curious. What other thread are you referencing? If it is the positives of psychotherapy thread, some of us are unable to post because we have been blocked so it may be the reason there aren't more responses.

It's hard to find people who have successfully made it through something when you can't identify what that something is, right?

I relate to losing the ability to have friends. I think I have also lost the ability to want any, although that may be a defense. Or maybe it is losing the ability to make friends. And I guess it was really C who did most of that anyway, so maybe I was never really capable. I don't know. All I know is I was not always this antisocial.

I am also an angry person.

It was MoxieDoxie's thread about "Don't be vulnerable. . ."

I'm not discounting the positives of therapy, for whom it has been helpful

There are some themes in Moxie's threads, and that of some others on this forum, that I can identify with. I was in therapy a long time -- it didn't work. How it didn't work may be hard for others, for whom it has worked, to accept or understand. But I think my long time trying is data that is worthy of being taken into account, somewhere. Something is missing in psychotherapy theory and practice. Yes, it's a young science or art. All the more reason to accept the "failures" and learn from them? But no, that's not what therapy is about -- no learning for therapists or the profession, from those whom they fail. All about -- what can the client learn from the failure.

I have learned: Don't trust therapy or that profession.

Since there's nothing that therapy has to offer me any more, I was thinking that hearing about the experiences of others might help. It does feel like there is a journey of sorts, going into and coming out of chaos and the "black hole". That is something in the experience of the client, not necessarily what a therapist does or doesn't do, it seems to me, even if someone does it with the help of a therapist.

So, that's what prompted this thread.

Maybe I should ask -- has anyone else had an experience in therapy where it seems like you are going into a "black hole."

My thread caused this? Geez

That T just spent 2 hours with me trying to repair our relationship. It took him 1 1/2 hours to finally be vulnerable with me and admit that I triggered him when I accused him of getting mad at an email I sent him and accusing him of lying. He had a mother always accusing him of things and that once a trigger starts it is hard to get out of. He said he has done a lot of therapy on it and he apologized for putting his guards up that set up alarm bells in me that put me in a real bad place for weeks.

2 hours he sat there with me until I was feeling better, safer and the relationship was in a place I can give him a chance to keep working together.

How cool that he COULD do that finally, though. And, yes, that he needed to talk about his mother, what effect it had had on him, and to own it -- for himself, not just for you.

That is very cool. It's what my last therapist needed to do, maybe, and couldn't, maybe. And without that validation, I was left in that chaos which I described as a black hole and you described as a real bad place, but for years. No way I was going to try another therapist -- well, try some I did, sort of, but trust any? No way. I had tried too many already.

You certainly have persisted with him, Moxie. And given it your all, in all kinds of ways. Hope things will work out, now. It will be interesting to hear about it, if you are wiling to continue to write about it.

Yeah great. He yielded to me by admitting something I already instinctively knew. After weeks of me saying something is wrong, I did something wrong, I feel like i am being punished, you changed.... he finally yielded. So I am still wicked attached to him. He is still the all spark that gives me life is how I feel. When does this get better? How does this all end? I am still broken inside for me to still be like this.

Isnt that just how it is? Who has it any different? Lifes a beach and then you die. It is what you make of it. How am i wrong?

How are you right, either? Any clues on how to make life good or better?

Seems to me like most of us try, as well as we are able. And then when we are at the end of what we know to do we go to therapy, where I, at least, thought I would get some clues on how to make my life better. Doesn't always work out like that. Then what?

Hey @here today

Quote:

Originally Posted by here today Only it didn’t work out that way. It’s been 4 years since my last therapist said she “didn’t have the emotional resources” to continue the therapy, and terminated. It wasn’t a brick wall termination, like I’ve read happened to some people. We discussed things in person, without me paying anything – after I wrote her and asked for a refund for the last year.

Can you elaborate on this if comfortable? What prompted you to ask for a refund and over what? what did she say?

Quote:

I’ve continued to ruminate and try to process the emotions that came up as a result of therapy – some from the past but some from the unsatisfactory, expensive, extremely long therapy process. I listen to key words and phrases that come to my cognition from time to time. Like my “unconscious”, relational side is giving me some clues – or that the relational and cognitive are working together, somehow. I don’t know – everybody is probably different on that, art therapy may help some people or even music.

Do you think you were in therapy too long? Or that you could have been helped years earlier but it was being drug out over time for monetary reasons? Do you think it helped at all?.
I am just genuinely interested in your story.

I think he is referencing my post here :Don't be vulnerable and put your walls back up

I have been sucked into the black hole of therapy, the opening of Pandora's box, the unleashing of demons. Attachment, transference of every kind, obsession about therapy/my therapist, putting therapy at the center of my universe. I had no idea when I started that this could happen--I could not have fathomed such a thing, and would not have believed you if you'd told me it could happen. I had been in therapy a few times (for an eating disorder), but never did anything but clean the surface and consequently, never did any real healing, either. I kept so much suppressed, and that effort meant I had little energy left for living. I was numb, half-alive, but also not in (much) pain. Unfortunately, joy was not really accessible to me, either.

I went to my current therapist to get assessed for ADHD and he said I do not have it, but he acknowledged that there was something going on. And he somehow managed to bust me open in just a few short months. It felt like I had been hit by a tsunami, and was tossed head over arse, desperately trying to break the surface now and again to get enough air to survive the onslaught of emotions and fears and unmet needs and desperation.

It is now 4 years later, over 350 sessions, and it has been a hell of a ride. At times, I thought I would not survive, or certainly not intact. I have wanted to flee him over and over again, and I have felt hurt by him over and over again. We fell into a never-ending pattern of re-enactments that resulted in his nearly terminating me four months ago. He said he could not "ethically" continue to be my primary therapist, that I was at risk of getting harmed in our work together. I wanted to tell him, did tell him, that it was too late, and furthermore, that an abrupt and unilateral termination would only cause further harm. He did listen to me, and said we would try to come to a decision together.

I had been asking, begging, him for months to help me stop the re-enactments by changing his own reactions. I kept telling him that I knew I needed to do things differently, but that I couldn't do it alone, that I needed him to change his part in things. He, too, seemed unable to change his part in things, to even see his part in things. (This is, I think, the primary problem. Therapists place all the "blame" on clients and fail to or refuse to see their own role in things. There is far too much emphasis placed on transference and not nearly enough on countertransference in therapy.)

Ultimately...it seems we are making our way out of the black hole. It has taken heroic effort on both of our parts. Part of that heroic effort was my continuing to stand up for myself and not allow him to always be right. This was so, so hard, because of the power imbalance, because therapy is set up such that I am the f'ed up one in the room and he is the "expert." It also required an incredible amount of humility on my T's part, more than I think most people are capable of. He sought consultation multiple times from an expert in my diagnosis, and he encouraged me to work with another therapist at the same time as him to bring another perspective to things. This therapist was amazing, and he continually encouraged me to believe my own instincts and not let my T's reality dictate my reality. At times, it felt like he was my coach in a boxing match with my therapist--he kept telling me I could do it, I was strong enough, to get back in there and fight for my right to exist in my relationship with my therapist. My therapist also sought consult from this therapist, which helped.

I did not think we would make it, but now I think we will. I can see a way out of the black hole, and I finally (FINALLY!) feel like my T and I are in it together, fighting the forces that keep trying to suck me/us into the vortex. There were times when it felt like he was (inadvertently and unintentionally) one of those forces, but things are different now. (It has taken me some time to trust that they will remain different, but they have been now for several months, and I am beginning to trust him more.)

I will say this work is treacherous, and I think many, many (most?) therapists are not equipped to do it. They simply cannot humble themselves enough. They cannot meet their clients where they are, privilege their clients' reality over their own, listen to and believe their clients, see and own their part in things, and change how they are in the relationship, My T is generally an excellent therapist, has done so much of his own work, seeks consultation regularly, takes a feminist/multicultural/collaborative approach, and still, he almost couldn't do it. I do think the field talks about this, about "ethics" and "doing your own work" and "monitoring your reactions and countertransference," but talking about it is different than doing it.

So....my story does not exactly contradict your premise that finding a way out of the black hole feels impossible, but I do think it's possible, if not a likely outcome.

Thanks, Sarah, for your questions. I'll give them some thought and answer later -- busy day today.

Thanks so much for your story!

I actually do not think it's impossible, still do not feel it's impossible, for me or others, but it's not been possible for me to do by myself. So your story is very interesting!

I'm glad it does not feel impossible, although it may feel so difficult and unlikely as to be as good as impossible. And being able to find, and then trust, someone who can actually help you may also feel (be) impossible.

One thing I accidentally left out of my story and that is a critical element is that I had to work towards being able to leave my therapist. It occurred to me amidst the terror of a threatened termination that no matter what he did, even if he made all of the changes I was asking him to do, our therapy was never going to work as long as I felt unable to leave him. (And for a long, long while, I felt like leaving him was impossible, and it felt like if he left me, it would mean utter devastation.)

As long as I couldn't leave him, there would always be a massive power imbalance in the relationship that meant I would continue to get hurt, even if his actions, words, and attitudes were impeccable. I was able, slowly and painfully, to do this. I'm not entirely sure how, but it did involve working with this other (adjunct therapist) to shore up my confidence, lots of journaling, lots of crying and grieving what would never be, marshaling the support of family and friends, and interviewing a host of other potential therapists, so I knew what would happen next if things were to end with my therapist. (So clearly I still have some faith in the profession, and faith that there was someone else out there who could help me was necessary in order for me to consider leaving my therapist, even if that help was limited to helping me grieve and get over the loss of my therapist.)

My journey is obviously just that, my journey, and so what worked for me may not be what others need or what they have available to them.

Here today, I am so sorry for what happened to you at age 13, and before. Dr. Jessica Benjamin talks about how one of the many losses there is the belief in a lawful world, or the world tending to b lawful and safe. Reencountering that in psychotherapy is retraumatizing, teaching that same transgressing lesson all over again. The people who say they will help cannot help and do not always help. I really think there are some super gifted trauma T's who blend the art and science of healing into actually reaching their patients and making a difference. But there are far more who want to to this, but lack the expertise and the instincts. They do a ton of damage, bc when they try and fail, people are left spirit-broken.

When I first went to see my last T I had been referred by a trauma and dissociation expert in my area. I went to see the expert for a consultation based on the recommendation of a friend from a support group who had known her in a DID (then MPD) program in the 1990’s. At that point I had had one T suggest DDNOS to me in the early 1990’s but that therapy didn’t work out, I hadn’t completely bought the diagnosis, and nobody after that suggested DDNOS or dissociation, including 2 IOP programs. I hadn’t independently sought out a comprehensive diagnosis anywhere else, although I had considered it. But I hadn’t done it, leaving it up to the T’s whom I did hire to suggest that, if they had thought it needed.

My friend in the support group suggested I consult the expert, though, because she had DID herself and I guess she recognized some signs in some things I was telling her about a conflict I had had with a group therapy leader.

The consultant couldn’t take me on herself, not surprisingly, but gave me referrals. The T I picked had a Ph.D. in psychology and a 2-year post doc training at a psychiatric hospital well-known for its trauma and dissociation and DID program. I thought I was in as good hands as could be found. TheT diagnosed me with DDNOS (now, probably, would be OSDD) and PDNOS, the first time a PD diagnosis had been suggested to me. (Although I had suspected it myself, mentioned it to another T years earlier based on an article I had read, and she replied, “Why do you read such stuff?”)

My last T also said that I was “narcissistically wounded and fragmented”. That seemed serious but made sense to me, too. She said that I needed long-term therapy. Nothing was said or promised explicitly but it never occurred to me that she would bail before the therapy was completed. Just never occurred to me – maybe not to her either. She did say that she was planning to have children and would go out on maternity leave and make arrangements for a substitute therapist during that time, which she did.
So when she DID bail, saying she “didn’t have the emotional resources” to continue – that seemed like a failure on her part to live up to an implicit agreement. Since she couldn’t fulfill the job, I asked for a partial refund, the last year of the 6 years I had been with her and paid, out of my own pocket by the way for any who may be interested.

She said that she would give me $1000 as a good will gesture, I didn’t want that, and asked to meet for no charge, to which she agreed. I think she agreed on 8 or 10 maybe? Something like that, but I think I stopped before that limit was reached.

I think that I was in therapy too long, with none of the professionals really knowing what was going on. And expecting the client to know a lot about their own dissociation or, for that matter, personality disorder is – ridiculous. Let's assume, for argument's sake, that those last diagnoses were pretty accurate descriptions of my problems. I think digging around in my past was probably something that could have produced good results a lot earlier, had anybody known what they were doing. Expecting ME to is, again ridiculous. I certainly tried – read and researched a lot, ruminated probably excessively (I’m not listing that as one of the negative side effects in my case, though I possibly could).

I don’t think my therapy was dragged out for monetary reasons. I think it was because they didn’t/don’t know what they are doing, and – likely because of conditions I went into therapy with – I wasn’t able to evaluate that sufficiently to take care of myself well. Again, I tried. But no way in all the informed consents was there any indication of how bad it could be, and for how long, etc., etc. I read articles -- but there is nothing definitive out there. Plus, it changed over the years that I was in therapy, on and off.

Well said, SE. Thanks.

The re-traumatization isn't just "re-", as my last therapist and her consultant seemed to think. It's independent traumatization all on its own, even if some of the conditions for it to occur are influenced by something the client came into therapy with. That's something that really needs to be recognized by the profession big time, IMO.

My heart goes out to you Here Today. I am so angry for you. Know that I support you 110% and that if you need anything, I am here.

How have you managed to heal from these abuses? Is there any insight that you could share with us?

Thanks,
HD7970ghz