Do I need to fire my T?

Hi.

I'm very troubled by this feeling that my T is insulting me...again.

I made a thread some time ago in which I wrote that I was recording our sessions and that I heard my T insulting me. After posting that thread I stopped recording and be more trusting with her.

Last week it was my birthday. That same day I had an appointment with her. She knew that was my birthday (because of the paperwork) and gave me a small gift, which I appreciated. I looked at the gift and then at her she was blushing and seemed beautiful to me. I was surprised and felt a little guilty about not trusting her completely.

Also, I'm having sleep problems and I'm not 100% when I go to therapy. So...I decided to record the next session, so I could go back if I felt that I missed something

The next session, yesterday, started like always. She asked me how was my week.

I told her about my cousin, who invited me to her house to dinner with her family. My cousin is like 12 years older than me. She said to her daughter that she sees me like a son. I didn't tell her, but I see her as a big sister. She supported me after my mom died long ago.

Anyway...I told my T that their 13 old son was already a bit taller than me. Then I lowered my head. She said something very quickly, I couldn't understand what she said, but I knew that she said something

I listened to the recording, only that this time I lowered the playback ratio so it plays slower.

It plays like this (all within seven seconds):

HD: "Their eldest son, who is 13, is already taller than me" I made a small chuckle and looked down and right for a moment
T: -a bit fuzzy- "yeah...forever...yeah"I imagine that she meant "forever alone".
T: -more clearly- "13...God, I can't stand you...The children...13 years..."
T: -not so clearly- "I dunno why you want to be a dad" or more like "I know that you want to be a dad"

Later ahead, she was making this example:

T: "One rule could be: I need to marry to be happy" There is a pause, I look down again and I hear something that sounds like "not even dead" a bit muffled because I moved the leg in which was placed my phone recording

How could I be so blind!!...or deaf!! I feel like an idiot for trusting her. I almost threw her gift to the garbage bin.

I don't think I completely understand.
First, she said something which might be interpreted as 'forever alone' after you mentioning the height of somebody. That doesn't make any sense to me, there is no connection between these two statements. Why would that be her response?
Second, why would she not be able to stand you because of the child being 13 years old? Being jealous of somebody's height is something that I would say is fairly common. This one I could potentially see to be said in response to your comment and if that really was said, I'd say that's wrong of a T to say.
The third statement of her was either 'I don't know' or 'I know', which are complete opposites and I'd not base any opinion on my T on something that I didn't understand enough to know whether it was one thing or the other.

And then the third one again doesn't make sense to me, 'I need to marry to be happy... not even dead'? Those two things again do not have a real connection between them, I kind of doubt she said this.

To me, it sounds like you had a phone in your pockets and recorded a person who's a bit further away and sometimes maybe doesn't talk so clearly and are now interpreting things which you can't exactly understand as her attacking you. Since the insults don't really make a lot of sense in the context, I tend to think that you are not hearing the thing that was actually said. And once you've heard it that way, it's hard to hear it another (this is a known auditory/neural phenomenon).

I think if you actually want to record your sessions so you can listen to it later, ask your T whether that's okay and put a real recorder out somewhere in the open. Interpreting things that recorded your T mumbling through your pants doesn't help you or your therapy.

(I know you didn't ask about this, but I'd be actually much more worried about your T giving you a present for your birthday, that's much more of a boundary violation in my opinion, unless it was thoroughly discussed.)

Do you possibly have hallucinations?

Honestly, it sounds like you could be having auditory hallucinations. Do you have a diagnosis that might be prone to hallucinations?

This all goes back to the things I believe you were told in the previous thread. Maybe you could go back and reference that and it would help? I think you are experiencing paranoia and it is causing you to hear things in these recordings that didn't happen. I don't know how else to put it. I do not think your therapist is saying the things you think she is saying.

I don't know if these are auditory hallucinations necessarily, since you are hearing real sounds. However, I think your paranoia is so severe that your mind is distorting the sounds so that you're hearing things that you fear she might say. To me, this sounds less like a hallucination and more like a paranoid delusion.

I encourage you to resist recording your sessions. That was my advice last time, as well. It sounds like things were better for a time when you stopped recording. I would go back to that.

Are you paranoid. I don't think recording your sessions and fooling around with playback is good for your mental health. I'd suggest you stop recording.

I haven't seen your other posts unless you already have a history of paranoia/ dellusions/ hallucinations I would go against the grain and say trust your gut instinct.

I find it really hard to imagine that any T would say something like "God, I can't stand you" to a client, especially without any provocation. I agree with the others that you need to consider that what you're hearing isn't accurate.

Rather than firing your T, you should probably talk to her about this. She may be able to clarify what she actually said, and she may be able to help you with your feelings around this, about trust, etc. It sounds like a very difficult experience.

Hi HerbieDag,

I hope you are feeling better.

I just wanted to say I support you recording your sessions. However, in some states and countries it is illegal. Please make sure you are not breaking any laws first. If so, ask permission from your therapist.

I think every client should record their therapy sessions without letting their therapist know.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

I don't know if your T is aware that you are recording. I record because I have DID and bad dissociation so my T actually suggested it so I could review what I missed in session.

I have played back certain things he has said before and he was happy to explain what he meant at the time. Is this an option for you?

Maybe you do have hallucination or paranoia issues and your T is not aware if it. You can take meds to help with that.

Hi Salmon77,

While I agree that it is hard for most people to comprehend a therapist saying such nasty things, I have experienced it many times... Behind closed doors - you'll get everything... I've even been threatened.

I mean, this world is so scary and dark and yet we still somehow doubt that those in power could ever harm someone.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

This is an inflammatory comment to make to someone who is struggling with intrusive thoughts (at best) and paranoid delusions (at worst). You need to reign yourself in and understand that your personal experience of abuse in therapy does not operate as a blanket interpretation.

OP; This post reads as someone who is experiencing a break from reality. It might be useful for you to engage with some reality checking. Is there someone who you trust who could listen to the recording and tell you what they hear? How about showing your therapist this thread? Something like The Helicopter View might be useful for you at the moment https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/docs/H...rWorksheet.pdf

I believe it can happen. Whether it is happening here or not, I don't know. I suggest taping the therapist to find out

Maybe give the recording to someone else and ask what they hear in it.

This is a good idea.

Let someone else listen to a record and see what they hear. Make an apt with psychiatrist. Talk to your therapist about your concerns.

OP only ever hears the therapist saying these things when listening back to recordings and it's also always when OP has happened to look away from the therapist for a moment. OP has never heard the therapist say any of these things in person. I am not someone who thinks it is inconceivable for a therapist to say these things to a client. However, from the description, it is clear that OP is struggling with paranoia induced delusions. OP identified paranoia as an issue for them in the previous post discussing this; it is not just an idea with no basis that is being used to explain away the situation. This is not a matter of people gaslighting OP because they can't imagine a therapist being abusive.

I think it's really harmful to OP to ignore the context of their post and their specific circumstances in favor of advancing one's own agenda. It's like if someone with paranoid schizophrenia thinks they are being followed by government agents and somebody tells them that yes, the FBI or CIA might be out to get them. Sure, the FBI and CIA do follow people, but it is exponentially more likely that the schizophrenia is behind the person's beliefs, not reality. It's not helpful and can be extremely harmful to reinforce delusions.

OP was doing well when they did not record the sessions, and does not do so well when they record them.

I support the idea of having someone else listen to the recording. I do not, however, think this should be an ongoing arrangement. I don't think recording the therapist is helpful for OP due to the paranoia issue.

OP I really hope you can let someone listen the recording and see if they hear what you hear (like a family member), I also very much recommend to make an appt with a pdoc ASAP.

Several of your posts are concerning:as you don’t hear any of it in person and only hear it on the tape but even then it’s unclear and makes no sense, you also see things in therapists room like a condom in a corner

There are bad therapists out there who are maybe saying bizarre things only audible on tapes and not audible in sessions and maybe have condoms laying around in their office, but people making this thread about “evil doers” therapists and how to catch them instead of focusing on OPs well being is counterproductive

To OP, please seek help and I hope you feel better soon

I got tired of listening to the tape, so I deleted the file AND the app.

I have someone who could have heard it for me, but I thought that it was too much

I'll rely on my memory and my journal. More than paranoid delusions, I guess that I'm just looking for a reason to stop therapy altogether, and that makes me sensible to this sounds that seemed like harmful words to me.

Sometimes, I do think that she is gaslighting me. I told her that there are these occasions when I feel she is saying things with double meaning and hurting me. She said that wouldn't that to me, in my face, that wouldn't be ethical, and what she says it's a reflection of the stuff that I bring to therapy.

Last session, like some previous ones, I stated the fact that I've never been in a romantic relationship. Like other times, I heard her (or thought so) saying "...because you're not getting laid". I thought "I should just ask her what she said, get a clarification", but I've let it slide. This was "on site". I didn't make a recording.

There was another thing, and this was less ambiguous, I think. We were talking about external appearance. She said "I don't like my nose, it's awful". I glanced to her nose on purpose, so I could say to her "It looks normal to me (it does, a little)" and I said it to her. When I looked at her, she said "Hey, don't stare at it" with what seemed an honest smile. Inmediately after that, she blatantly stares at my chest. I have a bit of moobs and I took it as "Would you like that I look at you like this?" It's a physical aspect that I didn't mention but it troubles me a lot. I dunno...maybe I'm overthinking things too much??

About the condom...I guess it could be anything. I was very tired and it was a quick glance. Besides, it seems that the offices there are being rented by many therapists. Anyone could've left or dropped that package

There are some things that I've heard without recordings, like I stated on my last reply. I've sought clarification by hearing on tape what I wasn't sure that I've heard in person