Couch 208: The Practical Couch

Friends like that are great--I have a few. It's good you were able to ask for help. Hope you have a good time with your friend!

NP—your therapist handled things pretty clunkily imo.

I do think LT and Jersey may be right he may no longer be effective for you. You guys seem to be in kind of a holding pattern, which is good in that it keeps you going, but it doesn’t seem to be moving you forward. I have the idea from earlier discussions of him he’s not actually a trauma specialist. Maybe find one who is to supplement your therapy with him?

NP, this sounds messy and complicated in ways that only the therapeutic relationship can manage to be. I think your T could have handled this a little more smoothly, and I don't think you did anything wrong. Even if one or both of you needed a change, it sounds like the way it was unrolled was really disruptive and upsetting. I want to chime in that I think even a few sessions with a different trauma therapist could be helpful. My EMDR T has been really, really helpful in discussing the relationship I have with my main T, and it has released me from some of the shame and defectiveness I felt when a similar issue reared its head in my therapy. Hang in there. The way you feel right now isn't forever.

Even just seeing another therapist to consult for a few sessions could be helpful. You could also look at it as wanting to find someone new and have them in place just in case your T suddenly says you have to reduce sessions now, so you'll have someone already determined to give you more support. Many on Psychology Today offer free 15-minute phone calls, so you could try checking a few out that way, or just try an initial session with one or two to see how it feels.

I don't think I realized how much I'd hit a dead end with ex-T until I started seeing Dr. T. And he seemed to have so many insights in early sessions--which is why I decided to keep seeing him instead of going back to ex-T. Dr. T has said that therapists only have so much in their bag of tricks, so it's common to have to switch to another one once you've sort of gone through all the tricks. I know it's hard to think of ever leaving this therapist, but you don't need to think of it as leaving, just trying out someone new. Like maybe see your regular T twice a week, then the new person once?

ETA: I also found consulting with another T, K, to be helpful a few times while working with Dr. T. She didn't seem like she'd be the right fit for me long-term, but she helped give me some validation when I really needed it and helped me in dealing with some of what happened with Dr. T at times. Even just seeing Dr. T's backup, R, a couple times when he was away gave me a new perspective on a couple things.

Agree with your post, but the bolded sentence particularly resonated with me. It's such a complicated relationship that can dredge up so many feelings. And it's not like with a friend where you can just be like, "Hey can we meet for coffee next week to talk this through?" Plus with a friend, you'd likely know if things were going on in their lives that could affect how they are acting toward you. And the balance of power is complicated as well in therapy, because you're paying the therapist, so in a way they're your employee, But then they make the rules.

NP - what an awful few sessions you've had with your T. I do think he could and should have handled things a lot more sensitively. It sounds like either he's thinking a different approach is needed in the work with you, or something is going on in his personal life which is making him feel overwhelmed, or both. Either way I feel he should have dealt with things a lot better than he did and been mindful of it's affect on you rather than becoming defensive. I'm so sorry you've been left feeling like this but its totally understandable!

Incidentally, NP, I think I get what you mean by the call being tangible proof of care. Lots of my emotional morass with No. 3 was that I’d just left an abusive relationship where the person who should have cared about me didn’t. And 3 offered very tangible proof of care. It ended up backfiring, of course, mostly her responsibility, some mine, some just the circumstances. But when you’re coming off an abusive relationship it’s like you need to know someone cares, and not someone you already know cares, like a family member or friend.

I can also see how the outside contact (Sunday calls) feels more like a proof of care vs. sessions, because you pay for those (I assume you don't pay for the calls?) Ex-MC's calls, texts, and emails with me felt like caring because he didn't charge me for them, plus the fact that he was willing to communicate with me individually. It made me feel special. With Dr. T, the fact that he charges for longer emails, that didn't feel as caring to me. But most of the time he doesn't charge me, and that feels more caring, especially since he always replies.

I bought a cat Advent calendar for new cat at Trader Joe’s. Also one for my mother’s cat, and a human Advent calendar for my mother.

Human Advent calendars are 99 cents. Cat and dog Advent calendars=$5.99. Trader Joe’s knows suckers when it sees them.

NP, your t is back pedaling clumsily and at a really bad time over something he initiated. And it doesn’t seem he’s taking (or even really recognizing) his responsibility in this, which is magnifying the clumsiness and making the whole thing ten times worse. I’m so sorry.

Thanks, everyone, for reading my massive post. I left out a lot of details believe it or not. There were other things that he wasn't listening to me about during our Wednesday session, including that he seemed to have decided I don't believe he cares about me, which is not true. I just still have some issues on that front. I'm definitely not telling him what he wants to hear. I was trying to be honest with him, but he was in defense mode and wasn't hearing me. I feel it's entirely possible to be okay with discontinuing the calls, but still having some strong feelings about it. And he didn't refer me to the ER; not sure where that came from.

I think he did handle this in an inelegant manner. His timing was off. I really, really wish that if he was having misgivings about continuing with this, he would have said something a lot sooner. It makes me feel awful that he didn't want to do it anymore but kept doing it anyway. But, you know what, he's a human being and he makes mistakes. He's actually very good about owning up to it when he screws up. I admire that about him.

I don't think I'm up to seeing a different therapist at this point. I don't think I can adequately convey to someone new how I ended up at this particular point in my life or how to explain the abuse that happened. Maybe it's not necessary to fully explain, but one of my issues is feeling like I have to justify my feelings to everyone. We've identified it in therapy, but I haven't worked past it yet.

I realize I'm kind of in a holding pattern. There are things holding me back that I can't bring myself to talk about yet. Seeing a different therapist won't make me want to talk about those things any sooner. I'm slowly working my way there with him though. I put out small feelers now and again to see how it might feel to talk about these things. He's not a trauma specialist, but he's also read a lot of books that I suspect he's read because of his work with me. He's willing to learn and that means a lot to me. I think a lot of what I'm trying to work through with him is relational trauma from my marriage and attachment stuff from childhood. I feel a real attachment to him and I feel that's probably very important for me to be able to work with someone. Even though I sometimes get to the point where I want to push him away, I don't really want to push him away. It's just scary sometimes.

As for the tangible signs of care, this is also something we've brought into the open recently. I have some trust issues. My ex would tell me he loved me but then he would do things that contradicted that, so at this point, I don't fully trust words. Actions mean more to me and the phone call was an action. I'm working on trusting words, but it's not going to be something that changes overnight. And I do pay him every time he calls me. $2.05 per minute (although he sometimes rounds it down for simplicity).

I do think he has stuff going on. For one, this Thanksgiving trip seems to be a last minute, up in the air kind of thing, because he told me he'd let me know if he can be in office. He's said that he has his own problems and issues. He keeps telling me this week that he's only human. I think he thinks I expect him to be perfect, but in reality I appreciate that he's not perfect. It may not feel great when he's not, but at least I know he's real. During our last session, he said that working together like this, we're going to end up triggering each others traumas. He definitely triggered some of mine.

What is this hangup therapists have that they think clients expect them to be perfect? I’ve had them say it to me (and fully expect Info to try that line on Tuesday) and I read it on here a lot.

Yet I’m pretty sure I’ve never expected a therapist to be perfect and I don’t get the sense most clients on here do either. I’ve never even felt the urge to say that to anyone when I’ve disappointed them.

It sounds like a line they learn in therapy school (“Defensive Statements to Make to Clients” 101). Or a neurosis of their own.

*flops onto Couch*

Feeling like a coward today. Arrived late to the event, so I wouldn't have to deal with the trigger full-on.

I think they mean "clients expect us to be perfect for them [each individual client]" and they can't be all things to all people. I read a great deal of "my therapist should know me by now," "my therapist knows how I would react," etc. That's pretty common discussion on this forum. The thing is, they aren't going to always read, ahead of time, how a client will possibly react to something, and that is where clients get shaken up because clients expect them to know them internally. But they aren't going to be able to do that with great accuracy because, the reality is we can't predict how we, ourselves, will react to things either.

Since i was the one who mentioned the ER - I meant, in the beginning, i thought he was calling you to keep you safe on the weekends. You wrote here of trips to the woods, etc. For him to have said he was unavailable on weekends would have been inappropriate, but something besides regular calls should have been implemented. I think it just created a different wound.

Imo, i would have found weekend calls from my t incredibly intrusive, even tho there have been times i soooooo wished for them. It TOTALLY changes the idk "flavor?" of the weekend. You are NEVER on your own. You are always under his skirt! (Its an italian expression.)

I would call the past year not a wash, as you did stay afloat, but the feelings and issues and impulses that were there a year ago are still here now. I say surprise him and tell him you realize that.

I dont understand what you two are "arguing" about, that you say he says you say etc - maybe it would help if you clarified that? Idk.

The problem I see is that therapists want to have it both ways. They set the game up up but don't take any responsibility. Therapists tell clients they know, understand, and are macro-watching (literally what the second one said to me) -and then defensively claim they are not perfect when they fail to live up to their own billing. I always found it fun to watch the woman become defensive and deny it - they are indeed not only not perfect, but not nearly as good as they like to think they are. I think their appearances of understanding are mostly the equivalent of parlor tricks. They, of course do not, but they have learned a lot of ways of making it appear as though they do - which they believe as well as the client sometimes- and they want the client to believe it.

My T suggested that I read a Fairbairn paper called “endopsychic structures considered in terms of object relationships.” I read it but I don’t really understand it and I sure as hell don’t see why he thought it’d be relevant to me. Oof.

Fairbairn is a good guy! I just got a kindle book on someones recommendation that im not reading...

I stayed out with my friend for 9 hours today. We had fun and did a ton of catching up. I’m home now. I should probably visit with husband for a few minutes before I start my laundry.

H and I are going to see Trans-siberian orchestra tonight. I need something to take my mind off everything right now but still feel guilty and selfish.