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luvyrself
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Default Dec 17, 2019 at 04:54 PM
  #41
You could start a group and use a workbook, setting goals. Its amazing how good the workbooks on Amazon are. I have been tempted to do that many times. Mine often gives useless advice like take the dosage that makes me calm, but Often causes me to be unable to finish sentences. Great.

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Default Dec 17, 2019 at 04:57 PM
  #42
Thanks here today. My psychiatrist whoīs the one who signs my sick leave hasnīt told me straight out that I need to stick to the therapist they offer me or else Iīll donīt get my sick leave. But my sick leave though goes hand in hand with the treatment Iīm in, regardless of if I find that treatment helpful or not.


So if I say no to a certain therapist, counselor or other and the facility canīt offer anyone else, then Iīm "out of treatment" and in the sick leave the current treatment is always specified. That is, you canīt get sick leave without attending some kind of treatment.

At least in theory they can cut me off, thereīs no obligation for them to search for therapists or counsellors only because I didnīt find the one they offered me helpful. Iīm now back with my temporary counselor but I already know sheīs not qualified enough to work with me.


We talk like colleagues or acquaintances and when I mention something more serious about my issues the canīt meet that. She isnīt a therapist but more of a case manager who helps people with practical stuff like telephone numbers to authorities and similar.


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The part I quoted above is exceedingly important I think.

I was outwardly very independent so the extent to which I fell into dependency on therapists, and the idea of therapy, was not at all obvious to me, and nobody else clued me in. My rational, cognitive side is pretty good, but it didn't help me at all with the emotional dependency/addiction. And all the therapy didn't help me gain that "insight" either. What helped was both my own frustration AND some comments on PC that were critical or questioning about therapy. Emotionally, I had just accepted that the socially authorized and licensed professionals knew what they were doing and what best for me. OK, that attitude may have been problematic and I developed doubts, but it's what I went into therapy with. And the stuff I got from therapists didn't help me get out of it.

At least, Sarah did take a more pro-active approach to try to see in advance if the therapy, or therapist, was likely to be helpful.

Was it made clear, in advance -- try therapy with one of those therapists or lose your sick leave?

I don't live in Sweden and don't know the system there. If you're physically ill and the treatment doesn't help or even makes you worse, do they cut off your sick leave then? That logic may not help much, if the mental health administrators make up their own minds without input from the patients. But perhaps there is an attorney or ombudsman who might help?

On the other hand, as Budfox points out, if you're "ill" and the "treatment", and looking for treatment, makes you worse. . .maybe it's best to do without? The challenge is how to "get better" on your own -- terrifying and not easy, for sure. Not necessarily impossible, though.
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Default Dec 18, 2019 at 04:43 AM
  #43
We've reopened the thread. Please try to keep the discussion on topic.
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Default Dec 18, 2019 at 10:46 AM
  #44
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. .. Iīm now back with my temporary counselor but I already know sheīs not qualified enough to work with me.

We talk like colleagues or acquaintances and when I mention something more serious about my issues the canīt meet that. She isnīt a therapist but more of a case manager who helps people with practical stuff like telephone numbers to authorities and similar.
If they don't have the possibility of a therapy that can help you, then accepting that, for the moment at least, may be the best you can do? If the counselor can just be there, at least maybe it will help in that you are not entirely on your own?

Based on my frustrating experience, I think even if you know what you need, it may just not be out there, or else very difficult to to find. Or, who knows, they may come up with some other suggestions even if it sounds like the psychiatrist isn't very open to it at the moment.

And It's not much, maybe, but we'll continue to be here, so please continue to keep us updated.
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Default Dec 18, 2019 at 02:33 PM
  #45
Does seeing your psychiatrist not count at all as treatment?

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Default Dec 18, 2019 at 06:12 PM
  #46
Are you officially on disability? You refer to it as sick leave but you haven’t worked for a long time and your expenses are paid by government assistance. Is it not considered a disability in Sweden? As sick leave typically won’t last over 5 years. Is there a disability agency of sorts where you can ask what you need to continue qualifying. Or can you ask your doc or pdoc? You might not even need therapy to keep your disability payments. Your pdoc visits might be enough
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Default Dec 19, 2019 at 02:50 PM
  #47
Thanks. Yes, I agree. The thing is though that Iīve already seen this counsellor/case manager for almost a year and even if the chats with her are nice, they donīt offer any treatment.

She told me I could write a suggestion for a care plan and we could talk that through and I did do that. Sheīll read it and weīll continue our contact after the holidays.

But so far the chats with her has been a lot about talking in general about "problems within society and psychiatry" and she shares a lot about herself. The sharing is fine in a situation when I see her as a case manager but highly inappropriate if Iīm Iīm going to see her for treatment.

Yes, I appreciate this forum and the support I get from you and some of the other members. :-)

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If they don't have the possibility of a therapy that can help you, then accepting that, for the moment at least, may be the best you can do? If the counselor can just be there, at least maybe it will help in that you are not entirely on your own?

Based on my frustrating experience, I think even if you know what you need, it may just not be out there, or else very difficult to to find. Or, who knows, they may come up with some other suggestions even if it sounds like the psychiatrist isn't very open to it at the moment.

And It's not much, maybe, but we'll continue to be here, so please continue to keep us updated.
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Default Dec 19, 2019 at 02:52 PM
  #48
No, it doesnīt as I only see her to get extended sick leave and sometimes she prescribes sleeping pills but nothing else. Itīs not that I see her regularly and my visits to her isnīt seen as treatment.

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Does seeing your psychiatrist not count at all as treatment?
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Default Dec 19, 2019 at 02:58 PM
  #49
No, Iīm not disabled, Iīm on sick leave because of depression and anxiety and because I havenīt gotten access to treatment (therapy) I havenīt gotten better. I need the sick leave or else the unemployment agency demands I join different kinds of programs and Iīm not well enough for that. Also, Iīm have sick leave for 75% of the workweek and I currently see a case worker at my unemployment agency to see if she can help me to some kind of work during those other 25%.

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Are you officially on disability? You refer to it as sick leave but you haven’t worked for a long time and your expenses are paid by government assistance. Is it not considered a disability in Sweden? As sick leave typically won’t last over 5 years. Is there a disability agency of sorts where you can ask what you need to continue qualifying. Or can you ask your doc or pdoc? You might not even need therapy to keep your disability payments. Your pdoc visits might be enough
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Default Dec 19, 2019 at 07:02 PM
  #50
Have they ever suggested some medication or something. If you are unwell enough to the point of unable to work for years at your young age, it didn’t occur to your doctor to look closely into it? Have you ever tried any meds? Sometimes people do have to go on meds if they cannot function. Therapy seemed to be totally unhelpful from what you described over the years and yet no doctors suggested other treatments? No meds? Some supplements? Group therapy? I find it neglectful on your doctors part to just do nothing. Not just pdoc. What about your internist? .
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Default Dec 19, 2019 at 09:33 PM
  #51
Is it possible that you were never properly diagnosed? Diagnosis often isn’t of any use. But often times proper diagnosis could ensure proper specialized treatment or at least good understanding of what is happening. Some things you mentioned sounded as maybe doctors and therapists are missing something.
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Default Dec 19, 2019 at 11:27 PM
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Thanks. Itīs interesting to read about your experiences. Yes, at least there are some people that see all the flaws within the public health care system and dare to speak up, not many doctors or therapists do that.

As you say, you can get access to psychiatric care but the quality of such care isnīt the same as if you pay out of your own pocket. In Sweden mental health care is very influenced by medical companies who want to push their medicines.

They work by the principle of the lowest possible care level which means they only offer whatīs absolutely neccessary. This means in the long run that patients apply for care several times due to the same or similar symptoms as they never get enough treatment. They get like 10 sessions instead of 40 or whatever they would need to get better.

There are many facilities and clinics in Sweden but they all struggle with the same problems and the same limitations.

Have you now got access to the care you need?
I definitely agree with you about how clients often never get adequate "doses" of the treatment they need. When my therapist was in public healthcare, she was unusual because she did therapy as long as the client needed, in contrast with most of her colleagues. She also is keen on treating longstanding issues, eg complex trauma, so she had a really heavy caseload. That meant long waits between appointments even though she offered many patients brief phone check-ins at no cost.

I now have the care I need but that's because I'm relatively privileged financially despite other marginalisations. My T moved to private practice and took many of her clients with her, including me. She has a heavily discounted rate for her most low income clients. I pay full fee but it's capped at a fixed fee even though she could charge more.

Back to you, what kind of therapist do you feel you could work with? Eg a more openly warm therapist who's been through poverty during a tough season of their life?

Last edited by Anonymous45127; Dec 20, 2019 at 12:05 AM..
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Default Dec 20, 2019 at 01:14 PM
  #53
The problem in all this isnīt that I havenīt been properly diagnosed, I have been through several kinds of screenings and test for all kinds of diagnoses, neuropsychiatric disorders and personality disorders included. We have way better access to different kinds of tests and evaluations but many people who get diagnosed donīt get access to proper treatment.

The thing is that what I need to talk about and what keeps me depressed and anxious donīt fall into any specific diagnoses and by that itīs more difficult to get proper care. As Iīve mentioned in several posts I canīt get access to a public health care therapist who works with me on all kinds of issues and problems but they instead focus on specific care programs for depression, for anxiety and so on.

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Is it possible that you were never properly diagnosed? Diagnosis often isn’t of any use. But often times proper diagnosis could ensure proper specialized treatment or at least good understanding of what is happening. Some things you mentioned sounded as maybe doctors and therapists are missing something.
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Default Dec 21, 2019 at 06:33 AM
  #54
Hey @SarahSweden I am curious: In an ideal situation if everything worked out perfectly and were exactly what you need- what would that look like? Can you describe it?
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The problem in all this isnīt that I havenīt been properly diagnosed, I have been through several kinds of screenings and test for all kinds of diagnoses, neuropsychiatric disorders and personality disorders included. We have way better access to different kinds of tests and evaluations but many people who get diagnosed donīt get access to proper treatment.

The thing is that what I need to talk about and what keeps me depressed and anxious donīt fall into any specific diagnoses and by that itīs more difficult to get proper care. As Iīve mentioned in several posts I canīt get access to a public health care therapist who works with me on all kinds of issues and problems but they instead focus on specific care programs for depression, for anxiety and so on.

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Default Dec 29, 2019 at 04:38 PM
  #55
Yes, in such a situation I had met with a therapist who could both be kind and sharing some little things about herself but at the same time be able to work through transference issue and not give up as soon as I told her I was in love with her (romantic transference) or I didnīt like something she did or said.

It had been a therapist who could give me compliments from time to time and could still keep good boundaries and have the qualifications to work with a broad spectrum of issues.

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Hey @SarahSweden I am curious: In an ideal situation if everything worked out perfectly and were exactly what you need- what would that look like? Can you describe it?
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