Feeling in hell over therapist’s vacation

Recap of the events of the past 24 hours...

I sent T an email around 2am, laying out some of my concerns related to session length and time, in terms of therapeutic boundaries. It was a good email, and I spent hours composing and editing it.

I went to see pdoc in the morning and read him most of the email, and he validated all of my feelings. He said it was a very well-written email and that my feelings are valid. I thanked him sincerely, because since I had a medication-induced psychosis a year and a half ago, I have trouble trusting my own thoughts.

In the email, I asked T for some time to discuss the issues, without fee. I said I normally wouldn’t ask for a few waiver but felt it was appropriate given the areas of concern (I had noted in the email that I was concerned there had been too many sessions and/or that he was fostering dependency).

Anyway, T agreed to 30 mins without fee, which I thought was a bit stingy... like, it could have been 50 minutes, for God’s sake. I’ve paid the guy a crap ton of money in the past three months. Tens of thousands.

So I went to see T in the afternoon. And he behaved as expected. He heard my concerns - partially. He acknowledged that we’re moving into a new phase of therapy that needs to be more limited and boundaried. But he also drew parallels with my childhood and attachment style and his vacation, as though these issues were in part created by all of that. I disagree with this - I think the issues came to a head because of his vacation, but they existed months before. I didn’t bring them up sooner on account of not wanting to ruin HIS Christmas (whilst ruining my own...).

I told him I felt pressured by his texts and that I feel he didn’t trust me when I said I was okay. His response was basically “well... you weren’t really okay, due to the intensity of work we had been doing.” Right, but... that’s why I made sure that pdoc was in place and that I had support. I tried to make sure that I wouldn’t contact him on vacation because I don’t think it’s appropriate to do so.

I’m so frustrated now. I scheduled with him on Tuesday but I may well cancel, pending consultation with a different therapist.

Pdoc said he hoped I would get an apology from T. I didn’t get that. :-/

In other news, his partner was hanging around the office. Before, I didn’t know if it was his intern or his partner, but now I’m fairly certain it’s his partner because it’s too early for an intern to be coming in after Christmas. They do this really awkward thing where she sometimes seems to remove herself from the waiting room area when patients are coming or going, but I can hear her outside the door during the session and can see signs that she’s around. Honestly it makes me nervous that she’s listening to me. There is some jealousy too, due to my transference feelings for T, but honestly it’s more discomfort than jealousy... like, I don’t know why she’s hanging around and whether she’s listening to me. Yet another weird boundary thing.

At least the feeling that he seems to have a partner, makes me feel like I need to be less nervous about him being in love with me... so we can strike that from the list.

This in particular, but taken with with everything else -- he creeps me out.

Sounds like you've done some good work with him. Nothing is going to take that away, that is work that YOU have done and paid for.

I have a thread about how I couldn't tell good from bad, safe from unsafe therapists. Maybe I'm beginning to. I'm getting clear signals from this that he is unsafe. For where you're at now, at any rate.

The part that Here Today quoted bothered me as well--that he doesn't trust you to be able to say you're OK and have supports in place. It strikes me as patronizing and maybe a bit paternal. Also, your comment that he has a partner means he can't be in love with you--that's not necessarily the case.

Thanks for the update--it's good you were able to bring all this up with him.

Thank you so much, guys. In fairness to him, he did also say that he was concerned because I had mentioned that I was considering inpatient treatment, prior to his vacation. I was concerned I wasn’t going to be able to handle things over the Christmas period (due to a combination of his vacation, the intensity of therapy recently, family stuff, etc all in combination).

So, I do understand wanting to check in with someone who had been considering inpatient treatment... BUT I had set up appointments with pdoc while he was away, and I told him that, more than once. And if I had had to do inpatient, pdoc would have coordinated, regardless (it has to be a psychiatrist who does the admit). So yeah, I feel like I’ve tried to be pretty much the model patient, and he’s been infantilizing me.

@LonesomeTonight re: being in love with me, you’re right that his having a partner doesn’t necessarily mean anything much, but it does make it feel “safer” if she’s around (even though I don’t like the idea of her listening to me). But now I’m feeling like maybe it was all in my head...

But this is why I feel like the situation is so gaslighty... he has made comments about wanting to hold me, twice. Who WOULDN’T question that? Why would a man think that was appropriate to say to a younger female patient? For f***’s sake.

At least pdoc thought my email was good. Thank Christ. Otherwise I would be going to bed feeling like I was completely out of my mind. Now I feel like I’m HALF out of my mind... but if I am, then so is pdoc.

Your T has a partner.

The abusivePdoc in my case was married when he went out of bounds with me and six other women clients. He’s still married to the same wife.

Why do you feel him being partnered makes him safe?

Do you feel you have enough information to strike him from being in love with you or him exploiting you for profit or ego-stroking..from the list?

Hope you’re right, sincerely.
Glad you’re going to see another T for a consult.

These are all fair enough comments, and again, I’m so sorry for what you went through with the abusive pdoc. That’s truly terrible. And I hear what you’re saying about married/partnered men... I’ve been drawn into involvements with two of those types, which nearly destroyed me. Someone being partnered doesn’t necessarily mean anything, you are right.

I may ask for another consult with one of my old T’s, via Skype. I don’t know.

Anyway, T has now committed to a strict schedule of twice a week for an hour - so at least I’ll know how much money I’m going to spend.

Meanwhile, I think it’s weird that T’s (presumed) partner hangs around the office so much. This seems to have started sometime last summer-ish. I can hear her rustling things around sometimes, or making coffee outside the door, which means she can probably hear me speaking if I’m talking loudly enough. Feels like a violation of privacy. Is that a reasonable complaint? Or is that just me and my transference/jealousy?

This is a completely reasonable complaint. I don't know what his set up is...is he in private practice and other than her are you alone in the building/office suite? She may be hanging around to provide a "witness" if someone were to accuse him of something. Or she may simply not have a life. But in either case she should not be able to hear you. Many therapists play music or have other sound machines in the waiting room so that people in the waiting room can't hear what is happening in the office. If the sound is close to them it will mask sounds further away (in the therapy office) and they won't be able to hear you, but you might still be able to hear louder sounds in the waiting room because the background sound is further away.

If you think she can hear you, I would absolutely bring it up with your therapist (assuming you see him again.)

Had a 1 hour session on Tuesday and T said that some of what I had said in my email was correct - I need something more contained etc. (not run-on sessions).

We also talked about my feeling okay with expressing anger towards him rather than feeling the need to protect him from it. He seems to be handling all of this quite maturely.

It’s weird transitioning to twice a week for an hour, but feels like it’s probably the right thing to do. Admittedly we did cover a LOT of material during the intensive period. But it was also really stressful financially, and I became far too attached to him and dependent on him. Thank god he went away for Christmas, really. It was like the detox that I needed.

He still thinks all of this relates to my avoidant attachment style issues. I think it’s partly that, but also, I think it’s unhealthy to depend that much on a therapist... because they’re just a therapist. He’s not my parent or my partner. It’s meant to be boundaried.

He says he has to “get used to me loving and hating him at once.” Right. I still feel he brought this on himself, for the most part. I’ve never had these sorts of issues with other T’s in the past.

He sounds like an *** and it's kind of disturbing.

“Had a 1 hour session on Tuesday and T said that some of what I had said in my email was correct - I need something more contained etc. (not run-on sessions).”

Good of him to notice...after *you* told *him* his run-on sessions were too much.

“He still thinks all of this relates to my avoidant attachment style issues. I think it’s partly that, but also, I think it’s unhealthy to depend that much on a therapist... because they’re just a therapist. He’s not my parent or my partner. It’s meant to be boundaried.”

“He says he has to ‘get used to me loving and hating him at once.’ Right. I still feel he brought this on himself, for the most part. I’ve never had these sorts of issues with other T’s in the past.”

Is he making his mistakes all your fault...blaming your pathology?
Is he trying to make you feel guilty?

It’s common for people to have conflicting feelings about others...our partners..our children...we can feel angry with them and love them at the same time.

He has to get used to *you* loving and hating him at the same time...Is this about him? How is it helpful for him to try to make you feel guilty bc *he’s* having trouble handling this? I read that you think he’s handling this maturely. I’m not quite convinced. It sounds like he flipped the blame all back on you.

And-
Did he accept responsibility for anything?

I think you are coming up with very valid concerns. I’m glad you were able to tell him about them.
I wish I communicated better: I have heart felt concerns for you.
And I’m feeling a little angry with him myself...not with you.

@precaryous thank you for all of this - your concern and your feelings. I think you communicated them very well. My thoughts are somewhat all over the place about this, so it helps to hear someone else’s thoughts. Your concerns are very gratefully received.

@susannahsays thank you - I’m not feeling as angry towards him now, but have felt like this before. It helps to have my feelings validated.

Thank you for your kind accepting words. My writing style comes off ‘terse’...even judgmental a lot of the time. And i apologize for that. I have a lot of emotions and compassion and they just don’t come out well.

I wish the best for you. As someone said, no one here can really know his intent..plus, understand I’ve had bad experiences myself, which cant help but color my feelings. We aren’t there in your place getting the full story. We can’t hear the inflections in his voice or see his facial expressions.
You know best.

I feel that I’m having a really hard time transitioning to this schedule of twice per week for one hour each time. But I also feel that surely I am doing the right thing? More frequently than that fosters dependency... right? Not to mention the financial cost.

I have to learn to stand on my own two feet...

Damn it, T, I miss you and feel that part of me loves you in that transference-y way, and it hurts.

You're the only person who can know what feels right for you but certainly from a therapy perspective I think twice a week is a really good place to start, given your previous circumstances. It's not too long to wait in between appointments and gives you an opportunity to to try and use some self coping skills in the meantime. I suspect that over time you will adjust to this and it will be easier to not be seeing him so often whilst still having frequent sessions. Well done for being so proactive in helping yourself, it's not always easy. And yes, the feelings of transference and the attachment to t are going to be really painful to deal with especially with how much time you were seeing him but I do suspect that these will become more manageable as well within the two weekly framework.

I agree that 2x a week seems reasonable and will also be much more financially stable in the long run. I think you have done a good job of acting in your own best interests OP. Can you use therapy time to talk about your coping skills and strategies for the non-therapy days? Best wishes.

So I saw pdoc again today and gave him the update - that I have “reconciled” with T but that we’re seeing each other on a more limited schedule, 2x per week for one hour, except in case of emergency.

I did have an emergency session this week, so I did one hour Tues, Weds and Thurs (Weds was emergency). And then pdoc today, Friday.

Pdoc was glad to hear that T and I had worked things out with respect to scheduling. And I told him that now I’m feeling much less wary of T and any romantic feelings he might have towards me... I think I was over-interpreting and being a bit paranoid.

I’ve had bad experiences in the past with predatory older men, so it kinda makes sense.

Anyway, pdoc reaffirmed that all of my concerns had sounded legitimate to him, and that I wasn’t just being a paranoid mental patient.

...

Reading this back over, it’s weird how my life is still dominated by therapy considering I had four appointments this week, which is three more than most people have. I had some intense trauma memories emerge so I guess it makes sense.

But I wonder when I’m ever going to get through all this and feel okay and have a normal life again.

It's been over a year since I've posted here.


I have a New T, and was talking with her today about Old T (the subject of these posts from the past).

New T was validating the fact that Old T violated boundaries. I got upset about it and started crying, unexpectedly.

I have bipolar, and I've kind of gotten used to blaming everything on the illness. Like "oh, I'm just perceiving it that way because I have bipolar."


Actually, no --


Old T WAS violating boundaries, and that wasn't my fault.


After today's session with New T, I wrote one of those "unset letters" to Old T, and I want to post it here. I might read it to New T next session.

Any thoughts/comments welcome. Also, if you have a weirdly boundary-pushing T... it's not your fault.


----

Dear Old T,

Here I am, writing you a letter that you’ll never read - the sort of thing a therapist might advise me to write.

I don’t think I should have to write this sort of letter to my former therapist, and yet, here I am.

I spoke to New T today about your texting me; your always asking me if I wanted to talk more - and more - and more; your needing me to need you.

And maybe I did need you.

But to what end?

In the end, it resulted in some sort of in-between relationship, where boundaries had been stretched - though not quite broken, exactly.

But is the therapeutic relationship broken?


I would say, yes.

In the end, I think you needed me more than I needed you. I wonder if you wonder about me. I know you do, though.

Back in January, when I was manic, I was trying to teach you about boundaries - and I said all sorts of things I don’t remember, but one of the things I do remember asking you, was why you hadn’t been back home to [home country] in over ten years.

“Is it because you don’t want to be in your father’s house, because it’s his house, under his roof, and you’ll do what he says?”

“Well, it isn’t just that…” you replied.

Just that. You slipped, Old T. Someone trained in psychoanalysis can’t really deny a Freudian slip.

I wonder if you would try to deny it, if I ever spoke to you about it. Even though I doubt I’ll ever speak to you again.

I asked you about your dad - about whether you felt you could ever live up to him.


You said something vague about your career still progressing.

I asked about your mum. “So what’s your relationship with your mum like?”

“Mmm... harder,” you replied.

“Oh,” I responded. “That’s interesting.”

“I do love her,” you said. And I said something like “well, so does everyone.”

“But she’s tough,” you said. “Tough as nails.”

“Interesting,” I replied.



It’s hard for me to remember all of that conversation - but I do remember you trying, once. Trying to maintain boundaries.


“I think one would usually say to keep the focus on the patient…”

And I deflected that, and turned the focus right back around to you.

It was a very bold, manic thing to do. But it was also, perhaps, a bit understandable.


It was like giving in to all of your boundary-stretching from the past.


Like finally lighting a match after you had thrown so much kindling all around me.

It was me saying “Okay, [Old T], do you want to have that equal conversation you’ve always longed for? Let’s have it then."