Feeling in hell over therapist’s vacation

Hugs, Blueberry. It’s good you talked to pdoc and will see him again Monday. I’m sorry you feel ill—I know (sadly) from experience that it can be difficult to question a T who you feel really cares about you

Thank you Lonesome. This is all SO hard as I’ve really trusted this T, and still want to in some ways, but the evidence is there that it’s been negligent treatment at best. I’ve had WAY too many sessions at a tremendous personal cost - financial and emotional. I’m embarrassed to say how much money, that’s how bad it is. T may well think they are helping me, but bleeding me dry at this rate is not caring or helpful behavior.

You did the right things. First by trusting your instincts. Second by talking to your psychiatrist about your therapist. Third by not waiting until the situation was a full blown mess where you get seriously damaged. Having your psychiatrist on your side is fabulous.

“He knows I can afford it - for now - but my money is not unlimited and I’m not working currently. I don’t know what to do in order to work this out whether it’s “him” or “me.” I see pdoc tomorrow and might let him know some of my concerns, but pdoc is the one who referred me so I don’t know if he’ll be receptive to this feedback...”

I’m concerned for you.
I’m sorry for all the mixed feelings and anxiety you are feeling.
I have gone through something similar.

Just because you can afford it doesn’t mean you *need* it.
The only clients I have heard getting this much therapy contact are psychoanalytical oriented.

I didn’t have this much therapy contact with my admitting therapist when I was inpatient. I saw her for an hour maybe three days a week for two weeks when I was inpatient.

Therapy should be about meeting your needs and goals and having your best interest at heart. It feels to me the T is filling some of his needs in this case whether they are his need to be needed, filling up his empty personal life and/or filling his pockets with your money.

Does he do therapy with his other clients this way? I don’t see how he could sustain a practice like that and do right by all of his clients.

I’m glad you told the psychiatrist and hope you can untangle this situation.

I want to add that, yes, it’s common to miss a therapist during their vacation. Not every client does but I generally do and I have read about many others on this message board that have, too. It would certainly be expected, imo , in your case considering all of the contact T has had with you.

@precaryous and sophiebunny - thank you both very much for your thoughts and support.


I saw pdoc again today and gave him some additional details about interactions with T. Some of the things that T has done and said seem to indicate possible romantic feelings or at least paternal ones. Pdoc agreed that the boundary crossings ARE concerning and that there have been many of them. I feel so validated, knowing that this is not just all in my head.

@precaryous, to respond to your note about psychoanalytical orientation: T was originally trained as a psychoanalyst, and then later in other modalities. He doesn't generally practice traditional psychoanalysis, and what we are doing is NOT traditional psychoanalysis - it's much more dynamic than that. He is not a "blank slate" by any means. We also have done EMDR sometimes. Anyway, i feel that my attachment to him is understandable given so many hours with him in such a condensed format - and it's not just 'transference" as it might be more readily labeled if he were just doing the blank slate thing. His boundary crossings have turned this into a relationship of sorts.


It's now been almost six days since I've spoken to T, as he's on vacation. He told me to email or text if I needed, but I haven't. I've been using the time to sort out what the heck is going on with it all, and to have two meetings with pdoc.

The above makes it sound like all of this has been easy for me to process, but it's not very easy, and I'm afraid it will get worse. I've started to write T a letter about how we need to take a therapy break at minimum, if not terminate. I think this will be a huge wake-up call for him, and I feel bad about it even though I know I'm doing the right thing.

As C-PTSD treatment progresses, the hurt younger self finds feelings that were dissociated, split off, compartmentalized for survival ect. Good therapy thaws out complicated feelings that were frozen. When I long for my T like this, it is usually not adult to adult ( though I still value highly and miss my T). It is usually bc either my disorganized attachment tells me there is no constancy or bc something young in me wants the pure, tender caretaking a good parent might give a beloved young child. My T and I once talked about the movie ET, and about what tiny kids we both were when that came out. Too young. That simple time marker helped me feel as well as itellectuaize that while he is here now adult to adult and cares very much about me in that way, that he was the same age as me when the bad things happened , and no amount of wistful longing on either one of our parts can let him time-travel to be the adult I needed then. When I am homesick for my T, I am usually forgetting this and wanting him to somehow heal the past in the past.

I totally hear what you’re saying, and it’s a good analogy.

At the same time, my T’s behavior is objectively not ordinary... he emails or texts (or both) to see how I am doing and to try and schedule sessions, almost daily (until he left for vacation). The amount of therapy we’ve had isn’t the sort of thing that would be “standard practice” by psychological associations. It’s been way outside of those boundaries.

He texted me today to see how I am doing. It’s Christmas Eve and he should be with his family. I think this would be a different scenario if I, as the patient, was initiating contact - but I’m not. It’s him. This seems to have become about him meeting his own caretaking needs, or thinking that he’s the only one who can save me, or something. Or, the more cynical version of this is that it’s about fostering dependency to make money. Although that’s not really the vibe that I get. I think there’s something else going on... midlife crisis?

Anyway, pdoc agrees and is concerned. I haven’t responded to T’s text yet and don’t know what to say...

“Hey, hope you’re having a nice Christmas Eve and no I’m not really okay because I’ve spent large chunks of time over the past week trying to figure out what the hell is going on between us, and whether you’re scamming me for my money, or using me to meet your own need in some way, or what...??”

(Obviously I wouldn’t really say that, but part of me feels like it).

I finally replied to T’s text this evening - 8 hours later - and told him I have seen pdoc twice in recent days, and have another follow up scheduled, and that pdoc is working over the holiday so is available to me as a resource.

I did not tell him that pdoc and I spent 90% of the session talking about him...

I said I felt I would be able to navigate the coming days successfully, and would contact T sometime next week.

I signed off with a merry Christmas, so it was friendly enough, I think.

I felt like sending a long explanation about how his actions have been my primary source of agony these recent days...

But I held back. My emotions are so back and forth about all of this, and I know I need to let them settle.

T replied to my text within a minute, saying he is very much there, too, if I need anything.

I honestly think he has no idea how dependent he comes off. It’s so odd. Is he not with his family? Or like, on a beach somewhere? Or something?

Ok, so I want to get you guys’ opinion on something related to my T (this isn’t about his vacation, but I want to limit the number of threads I have)...

Twice, he has said to me “I just want to hold you...”

The first time was on Skype, after I had been discussing childhood abuse and it was very intense and disturbing.

He was teary-eyed. I just kind of moved on in conversation, as did he, because how do you respond to that? I figured that either he meant the metaphorical “holding” of feelings that therapists talk about... or that it just slipped out without thinking.

Fast forward a few weeks. I’ve been to see him in person, and he starts hugging me at the end of some sessions - but always such professional hugs. Never hanging on, or much body contact at all.

Fast forward another month - we’re back to Skype. I’m super upset... tears down my face, snot, the works.

He again says “I just want to hold you,” and gestures as though he’s holding me and patting my head.

This time I responded: “right, but you can only say that because there’s a screen between us.”

He replies, “well, no, if you were here I could give you a hug...” and pantomimes patting my head.

Ok, so, he’s never touched me in an inappropriate way or anything, but guys, what do you make of that? I just can’t imagine any of my previous T’s SAYING that they just “wanted to hold me.”

Is it just me, or is this odd? It seems like “not describing a wish to touch the patient” would be a good rule of thumb...

It’s how the Pdoc abuse started in my case.
I’ll let the others answer to how often they have experienced this in therapy but, for me, it lead to further pushing of all sorts of boundaries and physical and sexual intimacies.

Your T’s words/actions elicits a red flag for me. If you see him again, can you ask him to respect your boundaries and not to touch you or talk about touching you? See what he says.

Has he made you last client of the day by any chance? Has he said he wants to make you last clientnof the day so he can spend more time with you?

precaryous - Thank you and I’m so, so sorry for what you’ve been through. What is your thread called about your pdoc abuse (if you’ve posted about it)? I’d be curious to read it at some stage.

With me, it seems as though T has been extremely careful as of late, for the in-person sessions, typically scheduling them mid-day when his intern is around. We don’t even have a “schedule” set though, which is apparently a boundary issue in and of itself. Like, we’ve never had a standing schedule.

My next appointment (that I won’t be going to, because I’m seeing pdoc instead) was meant to be mid-afternoon on the day he’s back from vacation (Friday). No idea if he had scheduled anyone after that... I kind of doubt it, but who knows. I don’t think people tend to do Friday evenings with him.

I don’t want to be overly conspiratorial and I don’t think he is actively planning to push anything further. But I do wonder whether he’s gradually moving things along without fully realizing what he’s doing.

Blueberry,

You’re right, it may not be an active plan or ‘grooming.’ He may feel he’s being extremely helpful and not seeing it from the client’s side.
I’m very glad you are asking these questions so you can reframe and change what has been happening in therapy.

To answer your question about what my thread is called-
I looked back at some of my old threads. I can’t find just one thread/post that talks about the entire experience. You are welcome to search my name or click on my statistics here were my name appears in the upper left hand corner. You can read some of my past posts. I begin talking about it in 2014.

Blueberry, I also wonder if your T could have more paternal feelings for you vs. romantic. Your description of how he wanted to hold you, which included the head-patting, struck me more as comforting than romantic/sexual. Though strong paternal (or maternal) countertransference from T's can lead to issues as well... It's good you're being careful and discussing it with your p-doc.

Being so expensive , do you think he views himself as a concierge doctor- small number of patients, a ton of attention?

Yes, I actually get a more paternal vibe from him to be honest. And the amount of attempted contact feels like a hovering parent, not as flirtatious... he doesn’t contact me to be social, just to see if I’m alright and if I want to speak to him (for a session).

Not saying I’ve been the pinnacle of mental health, but I’ve contacted him in crisis basically one time (when I wasn’t sure if I should go to the hospital) and even then, I wasn’t having sui thoughts. I’ve never been what might be called a “needy” patient. So yeah... it feels like he wants me to be needier than I am so that he can feel like he’s taking care of me.

This is quite possible. I have mixed feelings about this, though... like I kind of don’t feel it’s entirely ethical... maybe that’s a little harsh though.

Right, so now he’s texted me again. First it was Christmas Eve, now Boxing Day...

Christmas Eve:
“Dear Blueberry,
I’m just checking to see how you are doing. I hope everything is well with you.
T”

“Hi T,
Thank you for your message. I have been working in consultation with pdoc - we have had two appointments and I have another follow up scheduled for next Friday. He is town and on duty over the holidays, so he is a resource if I need anything in the immediate term.

I feel well-supported, so I should be fine in navigating the coming days. I’ll be in touch sometime next week.

Thanks again and Merry Christmas,
Blueberry”

Today (Boxing Day):
“Dear Blueberry, You have been in my thoughts. I hope you have had a lovely Christmas. Let me know how you are getting on over the Christmas period. Kindest wishes, T”

—-
I said I would be in touch next week AND that I was working with pdoc. What gives?

The worst part about this is, I WANT to talk to him on some level, because transference and all that. But I don’t want this to get any weirder than it already is. I feel like I’m being the model client, getting alternate help while T is away instead of bothering him, and yet he is the one instigating the contact.

I don’t even know how to respond, or if I should.

Wow, that is so complicated. On one hand, I could see myself desiring that kind of attention from T. On the other hand, you told him that you are doing well, seeing Pdoc and that you would talk to him next week. But yet, he is still reaching out. That is confusing! Personally, I don't think I would respond. I think it would just encourage more contact from him. It's different seeing it from the other side. I was always the one texting and emailing former T, she only in response to me and not all the time, and certainly not out of nowhere. This just seems like the boundaries are way off. HUGS Kit

The relationship seems very confusing and at the very least unhealthy for not just you but him as well. Of he is spending this much vacation time worrying about a client who has said they are okay, there is some serious issues.

If find the comment about wanting to hold you over Skype odd unless that is the terminology he usually uses. My T hig ay the end of many but not all appointments. Once a fee months ago, I was struggling and we ended up talking for a bit on the phone. U felt horrible and was trying not to cry but obviously failing. She did say "I wish I could give you a hig right now."

If that was the only questionable issue with your T it is one thing. However this seems really wrong and almost like he wants you to completely depend on him

Follow you instincts they seem pretty accurate.

It does seem odd to me that your T would seek contact with you during vacation like this, and with everything else, I'm glad you're talking to your pdoc about it and getting professional advice.

Another thought I had, was that in your first post I got the impression you might be pretty uncomfortable with feeling attached to somebody or feeling a need for somebody, and maybe you're also uncomfortable with somebody else showing they feel attached to you. At least that's kind of how I am, very uncomfortable with attachment or feeling dependent, so your saying "I don't usually care about vacations, I'm not needy" gave me that idea. If that's the case maybe it's worth thinking about how attachments feel to you in general, are they good, bad, scary... I don't think Ts should encourage dependency like this one seems to be doing, but the situation might speak to how you form relationships overall.

Yes, this is 100% true. I feel really uncomfortable with feeling dependent. I feel like he’s showing an anxious attachment style and I’m showing an avoidant attachment style. I would rather him model a secure attachment style, though...

Thanks very much for your thoughts, Salmon! This attachment stuff is really hard, eh?