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Default Jan 04, 2020 at 02:02 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by chihirochild View Post
I’m wondering if I should have given him space to feel what he was feeling rather than trying to rescue him from it.
I think that's an ideal approach to use in general, and particularly with close relationships and raising children.

Whatever you did was find as therapy is for your benefit. That could be something to work towards in therapy if you think that would be a useful change.

That sounds like it was a powerful session.
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Default Jan 04, 2020 at 04:33 PM
  #22
No, I can’t imagine he ever would.
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Trig Jan 04, 2020 at 10:18 PM
  #23
Twice.

Recently when I lost my uncle to sickness and suffering.

And when I told him
Possible trigger:

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Default Jan 05, 2020 at 06:32 AM
  #24
Not full on crying, but most of the ts I've had have got choked up and/or looked tearful on occasions. To be honest, I tend to ignore it and pretend it's not happening. I'm not comfortable with emotions, including my own. It took me years to be able to show any sort of emotion in therapy. I wish I could cry more, but I just can't. And so I struggle seeing anyone else get upset too.
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Default Jan 05, 2020 at 01:22 PM
  #25
Yes, she cried once. It was when one of my goals became a reality. I always wanted to get off of the ODSP and work full-time. When I told her I reached my goal, she got teary. I was surprised to witness this. She apologized. I asked her why she was crying. She explained that only two other clients have managed to recover enough to get off of the ODSP and work full-time jobs. - My therapist is a psychiatrist who is a part of an ACT team. All her clients have severe and persistent mental illness and most will never work, so my progress meant a lot to her.

When I first met her I was angry 18 year old who was recovering from an SSRI induced manic state. Over the years I have endured a lot of hospitalizations, a myriad of misdiagnoses, psychosis, and depression. Now I am 42 and have finally found my place on this planet. She helped me get to this point, especially when she realized I had ASD. That changed everything.

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Default Jan 05, 2020 at 01:43 PM
  #26
Yes, he’s gotten teary a number of times, when I’ve talked about CA.

Once a couple months ago, I came in and described how a potential landlord had yelled at me on the phone, and a bit further on into the session he starts going on about how he wants everything to be perfect for me in my life moving forward, including my landlord and my place to live and my job and my relationship. And about how what my mother did to me wasn’t right and wasn’t fair.

He was teary-eyed and sniffed a couple of times then, and I looked up at him, very startled. I don’t know what on earth triggered him so much that day - like, I’ve dealt with snotty landlords before, I can handle it. It felt very paternal and like he was dealing with some super heavy countertransference.
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Default Jan 05, 2020 at 03:48 PM
  #27
Nah, she hasn't gotten at all emotional. I think she's said she's sad or angry once or twice about certain things that have happened to me, but it didn't really seem genuine. I assume it's just something she says in certain situations and it has nothing to do with anything she might be feeling. She doesn't like me and cares about me in a distant, clinical sense, so I doubt she feels much of anything when I tell her distressing stuff. She has no emotional connection to me that would make her cry over me.

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Default Jan 06, 2020 at 02:17 AM
  #28
I can’t imagine my current t ever crying in front of me. He’s told me before that he hardly ever cries, so I definitely don’t expect it to happen in session. I had a previous t who cried for a while during one of our sessions. She’d gotten teary-eyed at other times, but that was the only time she full on cried. She said that she’d never gotten like that with a client before. I guess it made me feel cared for and like I mattered to her. I kinda wished my current to would cry.
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Default Jan 07, 2020 at 08:00 AM
  #29
An update: we had another session this morning and he brought it up (I wasn't planning to, but was glad he did).

He said that he was feeling a combination of things--grateful that I had chosen to continue working with him, fear that I would have killed myself, the powerlessness that he felt when I was deciding whether or not I could keep working with him. He also said that he'd led a group that morning that had caused him to feel vulnerable and that this may have predisposed him to being emotional--though, as he said, "I had a number of other patients that afternoon and I didn't cry with them." He also said that the fact that he was able to cry with me must indicate that he feels safe in our relationship.

He kept asking me what I wanted him to feel, what I was hoping that his display of emotion meant, but I really couldn't get at it other than I was hoping it was something about us in the room (as against, like, some random thing was happening in his personal life and it just happened to spill over in session).
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Default Jan 07, 2020 at 10:29 AM
  #30
Hello chihirochild. This is a serious and interesting topic. Thanks for bringing it up and sharing about your experience.

A poster above reminded us that therapists and psychiatrists have emotions, too. Obviously, they do get really touched when they hear very significant things. LonesomeTonight also touched on the topic of countertransference. Sometimes clients/patients trigger some issue or topic that the therapist or psychiatrist is or was dealing with in their own past or present. I wouldn't know exactly which it was in your therapist's case. Maybe your therapist really likes you and would miss you if you left. Maybe the therapist has high expectations for themselves to help people in need, and when they seem to fail, it is difficult for them, so emotions are shown. It is good that your therapist opened up a little bit to you, but they should also seek counseling themselves, when something triggers them. I hope your therapist does so. I'm not saying crying was bad, but it was something they need to explore, I'd think.

I have never seen full-on tears from a therapist, but one past therapist (and my long-time psychiatrist) have clearly been on the verge, in the past, in front of me. The therapist I refer to is an extremely compassionate woman, who clearly likes(d) me very much. I don't know how much of it for her was countertransference, her personality, or even culture (she is Turkish). Perhaps some or all of these. I remember once she became so emotional that she desperately wanted to hug me. Perhaps that's not uncommon in Turkey? In any case, she knew it wasn't common in the US, so asked me if she could hug me. I said "yes", and she grabbed me into the kind of hug that a mother would give when emotional. Actually, I had a bit of transference with her, as well. She looked and acted so much like my sweet late mother. I even told her that one time. Eventually, I had to leave her because she moved far from my home. In the end, it was for the best, given the strong transferences. Actually, after not having seen her for almost a couple years, she contacted me (which is abnormal) when she saw something I wrote in my blog that concerned her. I responded, but decided not to keep the correspondence going because of her strong reaction. [It's a long story.]

As for my long-time psychiatrist, I know he clearly cares about me. Plus, having been my doctor for about 13 years, it is understandable that some kind of attachment would develop, especially since he knows how much I adore him. He has actually had many emotional reactions to things I said, even anger. I do, indeed, have a transference situation with him. There is some level of countertransference, as well. These are not uncommon, and not always bad things, unless handled improperly for too long or too large of a degree.

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Default Jan 07, 2020 at 12:29 PM
  #31
Chiro - how did you feel about what he said? The part about him feeling safe would have pissed me off to no end - he does seem to make it all about him

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Default Jan 07, 2020 at 02:16 PM
  #32
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Chiro - how did you feel about what he said? The part about him feeling safe would have pissed me off to no end - he does seem to make it all about him
I was glad that he'd explained himself--I was savagely curious about what the hell had happened to make him cry; it's so out of character for him and such a weird thing for a therapist to do in that circumstance. (I had a therapist cry at the end of a therapeutic relationship before, and another cried just after her mother had died and I had said something sympathetic/kind to her... but those episodes felt more expected/appropriate rather than this mid-sentence out-of-the-blue loss of composure.) And while he was the one who suggested we discuss the episode, I specifically asked him why he thought he'd gotten emotional--what he said was a response to a request from me, so it didn't feel like another one of his weird self-referential jaunts. I think if I'd wanted to talk about something else and he'd insisted on talking about his feelings, it'd have been a different story.

Regarding the content of what he said, I felt moved that he gives enough of a s**t about me that his feelings towards me could make him cry. (Though to be totally honest, I think that him feeling so powerless in this situation has to do with the fact that he grew up powerless to change his narcissistic parents--something I know b/c he mentions that dynamic briefly in the book he wrote.) That also kind of scares me, though--is that really appropriate? Does he care about me too much, or in an inappropriate way? I don't get the feeling that this is true, it just makes me a little nervous.

The part about him feeling safe... I'm a little mixed on that. Part of me feels touched (in a good way) that he feels that we're close enough to say such a thing to me. But a part of me feels a bit wary because it felt like a role-reversal and that's the last thing I need in therapy. (Grew up with a mom that wanted me to take care of her, I now sometimes reflexively take care of people to my own detriment, etc.)
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Default Jan 07, 2020 at 03:05 PM
  #33
I'd welcome any additional questions or feedback--I'm still feeling quite mixed up about this.
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Default Jan 07, 2020 at 03:31 PM
  #34
The fact that he says he feels safe in the relationship sounds a bit odd to me, IMHO. I mean, isn't the T supposed to help you feel safe in the relationship, not the other way around? I think that the T crying does indicate a level of care for the client, or could indicate that, and it does like it could seem positive, though if it happened to me, I would probably be uncomfortable and freaked out. HUGS Kit

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Default Jan 07, 2020 at 03:55 PM
  #35
I'm not sure about the feeling safe bit either. It seems odd for a t to say that and I would feel uncomfortable as a client if I heard it from my t...rather like it was now my job to protect her. I'd also be a little worried about falling into a dynamic where i'd be concerned about ts feelings and needs. The rest of what he said is is ok as long as he's willing to own it. He's obviously aware of his own process and has chosen to be open and honest in the room with you about his feelings and reactions. There's nothing wrong with that in itself as it can be helpful to know how T feels as long as this doesn't take over the room and make you feel you can't be free to share what you need.
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Default Jan 07, 2020 at 06:32 PM
  #36
It does sound like role reversal, at least from afar it does. Not because he cried one time, but in light of all the context, including your astute observation about his past, linking it to the present. Or if he is transferring his stuff onto you, he is not seeing you for who you are. I'm not saying he is for sure (I wouldn't know), but it came to mind.

Maybe it stands out to me because role reversal is something I've done in therapy from time to time. What I did was discuss it with my therapists and then it became therapeutic for me (and likely them too).

If you are mixed up, maybe that signifies that you haven't processed it all yet or are are trying to block out the feelings? If you grew up having to take care of your mother, then maybe there's a lot of exploration that can result from this. (But he would have to stop his self-disclosure for you to work through it.) Just a thought.

I can think of a lot of feelings that might emerge from anyone who has had a history of taking care of a parent during childhood. Being objectified-an object used to meet someone else's needs is one... But whatever is making you uncomfortable will likely come to light on its own. Give it a few days.
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Default Jan 08, 2020 at 07:27 PM
  #37
Thank you so much for your thoughts—y’all are the best.

I just sent him this email:

Dear [T],

I’m not sure why it’s taking me so long to parse my reaction to last Friday’s session—my brain doesn’t seem to be working very fast these days.

I’m realizing that another thing I was feeling (in addition to surprised, moved, the desire to reassure you that your emotions were welcome) was the desire to touch you, to take your hand or put my hand on your shoulder. I suppose you’re used to this by now, but for me it feels odd to be with someone who is upset and not offer comforting touch. With my friends and patients and med students and even my attendings I don’t give it a second thought. Obviously you are neither my friend nor my patient, and touch in therapy is complicated at best (which is why I sat on my hands, as it were) but you are someone I feel close to and care about.

I don’t know; I’m not sure if this is even worth bothering you about, but it occurred to me so I thought I’d mention it.

[c]
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Default Jan 11, 2020 at 01:10 AM
  #38
It happened today.

I read T something nice I had written about her..I posted the letter/email on the thread, “ T, I really need to tell you something,” (I think).

I looked up after the first few sentences and T looked surprised and a little embarrassed (in a good way.) I’m not sure because I absolutely suck at ‘reading’ people’s reactions.

After I finished reading the email, I looked up and her eyes seemed tearful. It was my turn to feel surprised. I asked her, “Are you crying?” She said, yes, she was crying. She thanked me and said she was very touched by what I had written. She said something like how ‘wonderful’ I am, etc.

I didn’t mean to make her cry.

I tried to explain the feelings I expressed in the letter... I told her I wrote it because, well, she knows I have had absolutely the worst therapy experiences in the past...and then to find two therapists offering genuinely excellent therapy (imo)...I’m very thankful and it just amazes me...

I thought she would like it...but I never thought she would cry.
I’m glad she liked it..I’m glad it felt meaningful to her.
She even hugged me before I left.

So, yeah, I was surprised she cried.
Besides that, it felt kinda good.
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Default Jan 16, 2020 at 10:05 PM
  #39
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I just had a thought, for those of us who never cry (in my case because I feel it is a sign of weakness for just me) would T showing such emotions without trying to hide them be beneficial? With EMDR T she seems to have it all together and strong. I sometimes feel weak when I feel like my life is falling apart or depression hits. I wonder if she showed some emotion it would model that crying really is okay. Btw I am not talking about outright sobbing or anything.
This week at my appointment I am pretty sure T did cry. I was talking about the illness of a close loved one. I was crying a bit. I looked at her and her eyes were a little red. Then I looked away. Out of the corner of my eye I noticed she rubbed her cheeks (probably wiping tears bit I am not sure)

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Default Jan 16, 2020 at 10:07 PM
  #40
Yes, several times. It felt... helpful. Cant find the english word I am looking for. Validating, maybe.
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