Grieving Therapy

The more i think about it, the more i think im going through real grief.

After both final sessions with Ts (that went well imo) i have waited a few days and then have sent them a short last email (they told me to do so).

During this time, between final session and first email contact (me sending to them), at first i have felt free, proud of myself for actually doing what i said i would, for keeping my word, and i felt kind of serene about my decision. Yes, sad also, but mostly i was proud for i finally got to get rid of all the unpleasant feelings and thoughts and worries you have when you're connected deeply with someone. i wouldnt have to HAVE TO talk about me anymore, not even think about what to tell next time AND i wouldnt have to WORRY about them anymore (in any way you can worry for/about them), so it felt like some kind of freedom (the freedom that is given by being alone) and, should i decide to end it, id finally be free of doing it without having to explain, apologise, (even test them), and feel overwhelming guilt. And i’ll have nobody to save me as well.

i knew from the beginning that ending would also bring up a lot of negative emotions… missing them, needing them, wanting to get back in touch or just know they're ok or alive… and i knew there will be times i'll think "this i must tell to T" but i wont have any T to listen to me... and i knew i would be mad at myself for quitting and wasting time and occasions i had to still be with them until they are still working before they retire (because sooner or later then THEY would have to end it - and this i couldnt accept anymore). I was ready (for as much as one can be) to that, but not to what Ft answered.

- FT: Jan 17 was the day of my last contact with f(female)T. she sent me a last reply to my email that devastated me. I for once had spilled out all my love for her in different ways. Asking how to behave from now on as if any contact would be possible and even offered her a last final session to clarify her doubts (she said she had a lot of questions for me). She replied in a very quick and hurried wat with few sentences. She practically said she accepted me quitting and told me not to bother to contact her gain. Didnt even mention the optional further session i offered her. That hurt! She also mentioned some positive things, but they sounded fake and said just out of politeness. what i really got from her email is that she was hurting, frustrated, mad and angry at me. She sounded so detached, upset, cold, disappointed. And… indifferent. Actually almost despising my attempts to tell her how thankful to her i am and how much i love her. This really hurt. With a few more words she actually said whatever i say from now on is indifferent to her. It HURT. She wouldnt want me back ever again. I feel she now hates me.

Now i wonder. How much must i have hurt her to push her to reply to me in such a way? She never once has been like this with me. I feel so sorry for how much i must have hurt her. And im a bit appalled by her reaction and very sad and sorry about what i have done to her, she didnt deserve it – but i did not do it TO her, i did it FOR me… how come she doesnt get it? its not personal! I had my reasons, i have explained them to her and they were not personal. How could she take them personally? Im so sad, hurt and disappointed and sorry. I have no intentions of contacting her ever again, i doubt she ever will either so… thats the real end and a crappy one. I thought she would have understood and not taken it personally. Its just real sad, end especially because she has made me feel she doesnt care and is indifferent to anything i feel (about her, about therapy, about what will happen to me, or anything). Its as if she said im disgusting to her. I really felt and still feeling that. That i am disgusting to her. That she’d hate to just see me casually on the streets.
I understand i guess…. I think in her mind, with quitting, i have “thrown away” all of her work with me and in her reply to me i feel she has “thrown away” all of my positive feelings about her and what we have done together that to me is not wasted as she may think. It was still useful and im still thankful. Im so sorry she cant see that because she had other goals for me. Im sorry. I knew from the beginning i am a lost cause and i would not make any t happy because… im ME!
I had just hoped for a better end or last contact…. Im so hurt and disappointed…

- MT: As for m(male)T, he instead insisted twice (on final session and through text later on) to have me go back. So then i sent him a last email too saying i wont go back unless he tells me he needs to talk to me in person one last time. And i asked him too how to behave from now on and if any contact would still be possible.
im still waiting for his reply. it should come, sooner or later. I hope so and i hope he doesnt take it that personally as FT has done but at this point i actually expect something worse.

Im very sad for both endings . And thinking that had i not chosen to quit, but to work through it all, we’d still be together is overwhelming to me.

Actually i still have one more pdoc in my life from the mental health center im followed by. I attempted to end it with her too but she threatened me not to give me/prescribe me my meds should i quit, so i decided to stay but i feel nothing for her and i dont want to talk with her about about anything significant.

Back to the original theme of this thread: in a few days and in a few hours or even just minutes i have felt deep sadness, guilt, anger, hate, relief, and from seeing a future where i kill myself because i miss them, to seeing a future that is better than before because every day i survive means each and every day i get stronger because i manage to survive it without them. Is this making any sense? But in any way, i feel like i killed someone… no, 2 people. 2 persons that were only good to me. For what? Out of fear?
And yes, the first days and still now, until i get an answer from MT i still feel in DENIAL, as if i just have to hold on a few more days or weeks and i twill all go back as before… and yes, i have felt deep ANGER towards them because in the end the people i love the most has hurt or will hurt me the most (family members included in a way and excluded in another way). Except for my family they were the most important persons in my life… BARGAINING… i think i already attempted that when i offered both another session after the final one should they had anything to tell me in person. I would have loved to be able to do that for them. It would have been the only way during all these years that i could have done something exclusively for them. I guess DEPRESSION will arrive after last email from MT… and ACCEPTANCE… sometimes i think i have already accepted it since i decided it and i knew both relationships had to end, but on the other hand i think i’ll never fully accept the way it ended. My fault and in a way that hurt everyone. Maybe it was really better to end it with my own death.

It was a bold decision to cut off your entire support system in this way.

An extended break might have helped show whether you can cope without them. This, to me as an external observer, seems a bit drastic.

It seems female T was probably surprised at you suddenly quitting on her. Without knowing what she said exactly to you, it is difficult to say any more. Just that even if she had reacted more positively, that does not mean she would have allowed any subsequent contact. So, in effect, you would have lost her anyway by quitting on both.

I am also confused re male T. He asked to see you again but your reply is that you won't go "unless he tells me he needs to talk to me in person"?? Is that not what he asked? Or are you playing games with him, saying he has to specifically express the need to see you? A final meeting would most likely be to your benefit, not theirs.

If you want to cut off contact with them, your best bet is to move on as you already told them it was over.

Thank you for reading and answering, Rive.

i have BPD, i think FT should have expected it sooner or later since it is she that diagnsed me and right for this reason im more appalled at her reaction. compared to MT, i think FT reacted worse and more personally (even though i still dont know what MT will say or how he will react by email). i understand her reaction as a person, but i dont understand it as a T. maybe she was just tired of me and happy to be set free from me. i think she's happy we wont have to see each other ever again.

and i could well live with the final session i had with both, but its the last contacts i had with FT that are eating at me.

i cant believe after all she said and all she did for me and how well she seemed to understand they way i think, that this is her reaction. deep down it feels wrong and that things will be fixed sooner or later (denial), but in reality they probably wont.

as for MT i wanted to clarify: he kept saying we should meet again to better understand ME and what this is all meaning to me. so he would have liked to have me go back to full therapy or even just more sporadic therapy but still therapy FOR ME. what instead happened is that im 99,9% sure the quitting is the only option i had and i could well live with the final sessions i had with both. i got to tell them everything i wanted to tell them, but then i wodered if they, maybe, would have liked a final session forTHEM to tell me something thet wanted to say and didnt get the chance. thats why i said id like MT to ask for one more session but for HIM and not for me, because im satisfied with the final session we had. and i have nothing else to tell them both.

lastly, it kind of feels unfair that im here torturing myself over this all for some people who were supposed to help me, not put me in this situation and torturing myself over them both.

it all still seems unreal anyway… and i keep expecting hearing from them. i guess it wont happen ever again except maybe for an email from MT in reply to mine… i just find myself thinking about them day and night all the time. i knew it would have happened, i just have to come to terms with it, i guess.

I agree, female T could have acted more professionally (or at least like male T).

Also, sorry re male T, as it seems I misunderstood your initial post.

I am just wondering though: are you still okay to go on without any T support? Would it be okay with male T if you reached out in the future? Of course, you know better what you need. I am just thinking that life can get kinda hard without support and would like you to have someone you can reach out to, if you ever needed to.

I'm sorry you're dealing with all of this. I agree that leaving a therapist can lead to a grieving process. It helped when current T referred to my emotions leaving ex-marriage counselor (for whom I had strong paternal transference) as "grieving a loss." Because it was easy to think "Why am I having more trouble getting over leaving my therapist compared to my grandmother's death?" I probably grieved off and on for a year, being OK for long stretch, then an anniversary or something I associated with him (like the college basketball playoffs) would happen, and I'd feel very sad again. I'd reach out to him periodically, and he always replied in some way.

You mentioned about FT seeming angry with you and wondering if she was hurt. My current T seemed quite harsh to me when I was saying to him back in August that if he couldn't give me what I needed, maybe I needed to find another T who did. He told me it felt like a manipulative thing to say, and "leave or don't leave." This was during an evening when I was in crisis (and he knew that). He also said some other rather harsh things. I met with him a couple more times after that, and he still seemed a bit harsh (saying things how I'd never get what I wanted from a T, and if I did, then it would be an unethical relationship). I terminated, then went back a couple weeks later. I wondered then, and now, in reading what you wrote here, if some of that was his being hurt that I was leaving rather abruptly after seeing him for 2 years, much of it twice a week, and after he'd tried to do so much to help me. If his lashing out was from a place of hurt. Because a while back, he said that what I say and do affects him, how he's not a robot. He's seemed much warmer and more caring since I came back. No lashing out from either of us (I admit I lashed out some over the summer as well).

But anyway, I do wonder if that's what's going on with FT. I forget, did you give much warning about wanting to leave? Or were you just like, "OK, this is my last session"? She may have been hurt and confused. However, that's no excuse for her to act the way she did (or for my T to act the way he did). Her saying not to bother contacting her again--did she phrase it exactly like that? I'm just wondering, because some T's feel it's unethical to continue communicating with a client once they've terminated (aside maybe from an update email, to which the T might just say "thanks for the update"). My T has said it's sort of risky in a way that ex-MC kept replying to me, because, for example, if something happened to me, the emails could suggest he still had some responsibility to me as my therapist. It also could be that FT meant you didn't need to contact her for her sake, as you'd offered a session to let her ask questions.

As for offering a session for MT for his sake, T's aren't supposed to be seeing clients for their sake (aside from financial). I think it would be ethically wrong for him to have you come in again (and pay) in order to have his needs and curiosity met. It should be about serving the client. When I terminated rather abruptly from ex-T who I'd seen for 6 years to try seeing now-current T, I'd said if I decided to switch to him, then I'd eventually come back for a termination session. I never ended up doing that (it was over 2 years ago now). I realized I'd be going to that termination session for her, not for me, so why should I pay to do that? I'm someone who tends to want to take care of people and people-please, so I think it was coming from that side of me. So in not doing that, I was putting myself first.

Not sure if this makes any sense. I'm trying to say that I think your MT is trying to look out for *your* needs, not his. You said you'd do another session if he wanted one. His declining to ask for that is not a rejection of you. It's that he's putting your needs ahead of his. If you actually feel you *do* want another session, for whatever reason, then just ask for one. Hope this helped in some way...

hi again Rive, thank you for validating me. i knew it would have been hard but after 13yrs with MT and 4 with FT i think i've had enough with therapy. i just got fed up with it.

Hi LonesomeTonight, thank you too for your contribution and support.

yes, its exactly like that. it seems to be hadrer to go past Ts endings than even family members' deaths… maybe because they're not really dead and you can keep wondering and thinking about them as alive and, for me at least, it doesnt give me peace. while knowing my grandma is in heaved gives me peace…

i dont think after what i said in the emails that i can go back to them or even contact them anymore. i did it to protect myself even though it hurts as hell. both because it was my decision and it was not really necessary and because they agreed to that, so its me taking it as they didnt want me anymore anyway. and that hurts.

im sure they both didnt expect it from me now. but i warned them about a week before saying i wasnt sure and decided only while during last session that it was going to be the final one. maybe not too long notice, but i had said other times i wanted to quit so it was not a new thing for both of them.

FT didnt exactly say "dont bother to contact me again" but i swear that what i got from her words. she had previously said when we terminate i can Always go back because circumstances change with time so you never know, but this time when i said i was quitting she answered that way that seemed to leave no space for checking back or any other contact.

i know offering a last session FOR them wasnt in the "guidelines" but i felt quite sure i could say something like that and honestly i thought they both would have accepted because i had been selfish saying all i had to and not giving them time to process and elaborate and maybe say all they wanted to say. or maybe they just have nothing to say but from their own words i can feel they would have liked to end with more discussions and details from me. FT said she had a lot of questions for me. MT said we should explore what leaving now means to me. i felt like they both wanted to know more thats why i offered them a last session FOR THEM. and it would have been good for me too to be able for once to do something for them, not much but a little… the little i could i would have done it more than happily. i do not want another session for me. of course im curious about what they would have said, but thats just curiosity, not a need. i am satisfied with the final session we had.

the only weird thing is im still waiting to hear from them… as when a person dies and you still expect him/her to come home at night… this will be hard to go away… and will hurt, but i hope that with time it will hurt less and not more...

May reply more later, but just wanted to say that I've talked about typical terminations with my T, like if clients tend to have a full "termination session." He said it's much more common for a client to say near the end of a session, "Well, I think this will be my last session" or something like that. How they're taught about termination processes in grad school, but it rarely happens that way (same from what he's heard from colleagues). Or a client will just cancel a session and not come again, even if they'd been seeing him longer-term. So I think T's should be used to that.

Ft was very emotional and didnt have a problem crying in session or on the phone… so even if she was trained for terminations i bet she has been very emotional about it. and from here her words… i keep thinking about her and him all the time.

today would have been FT session day… right… NOW. i had this hopeless hope that she would contact me but she didnt. im not sure i miss sessions more than i miss T so that shows i was right quitting.

im drunk right now by the way.

im still waiting for MT to answer my email. i hope he will tomorrow or… whenever he wishes, just hoping he eventually will...

if they asked me, im not sure id go back, maybe not even for them. i feel more and more convinced it was the right thing to do, but i miss them as hell.

i keep looking at WhatsApp to see if FT is online and if MT has had access. just looking for some kind of connection. just looking for a sign they are still alive.

when i see our last messages and think about her last email i cant help but thinking she is now disgusted by me and what i feel and she hates me. its so hurting.
im not sure what to think about MT until he answers me (f he will).

as for him, i keep faithfully waiting for a sign from him but a week has passed already so maybe i'll never hear back from him at all.

its not as bad right now because i still have the hope to hear from then at a certain point… it will be a lot worse when this stupid hope will leave me and i'll know for sure im alone and all by myself.

first wed without T... ***** T... i dont need T anymore.

PS. i just realized their lives are always filled with someone or something, its just mine the one who is empty without them...

Im sorry Ts, im sorry Ts...

HUGS @sinking

im sorry Ts

I hate you

i love you

i miss you

im fine without you

im lost without you…

i'll die without you

it seems such a temporary thing….

i wish i'd hear from you

im angry at you

im done waiting for a contact from you….

im tired of you being in my mind

i want you out of it

am i in yours?

i want you in my life

i wish we had a better ending/termination

im hurt by you

maybe i hurt you too

it seems this time its really over and done,

i'll still think of you and miss you

i'll be free to do whatever i want without having to tell you

i wont have you listening to me again

you wont hear from me again

will you miss me?

will you remember me?

do you hate me?

am i disgusting to you?

have you ever loved me a little bit?

i have loved you and still do. and always will

i'll never forget you

thank you for everything

please forgive me

i hope you're better off without me

i love you, i hate you, i love you, i hate you, i love you, i hate you but i love you...

i must add…. im DISAPPOINTED. they really seemed to care about me. does this silence mean they never really did?

i cant seem to be able to stop thinking about them…

mT… i thought he would have answered my email when we were supposed to meet the first time he asked me to go back…. which would have been today but… silence.
he had taught me that even a non-answer is a sort of an answer and even though i kind of begged him to answer to my email at the end of it, im starting to think he thinks the best answer he can give me is a non-answer. so he's leaving me hanging… i hate it, but honestly im also very scared of anything that would come up with any kind of answer from him…. or from fT.

fT… i thought she only wanted to test me and see how much determined i was to quit but now and every single time i re-read her last texts or emails i just get the feeling she is mad at me and disgusted by me and frustrated because i was a therapy failure.

neither of them could really want to get back in touch with me or see me one more time, and maybe not even by chance on the streets. i think they both hate me.

and im starting to see i'll never hear back from them. and im too scared to contact them first… i wouldnt want to go back, just have a better end, but im afraid that if i contact them i'll only get a worse termination with both of them, so i wont start any further contact.

am i doing the right thing here?
will i ever stop thinking about them? and will i ever stop wondering and analyzing every single word from them trying to guess what they think and feel about me???

should i just consider them dead? maybe that would be easier.
i keep looking at the phone trying to… make them contact me.… thats… crazy and pathetic and depressing but i cant help it…. i live the Whole day hoping to hear from one of them or both…

and… i also feel they have to be punished for what im going through now… i know its all my fauly but i cant help blaming them a bit for leaving me hanging like this. maybe if i die they will regret this. not contacting me, not giving me a better end, leaving me hanging.

i hate this, i hate them and i love them and i miss them.
it would be easier if they were dead or if i were dead….

Ts…. get out of my head!!!!!!!!! ...and heart….

i cant cope today... i feel like crying all the time, i feel so alone, abandoned and lost... still stupidly waiting to hear from them...

Popping down pills to stay calm

I could have expected this from anyone but my Ts... people i have paid for years and know me too well. Do they want to hurt me and punish me for quitting? Are they doing this for me or for them?

You know... neither of them told me to contact them in case of need... not that i would have done it, but it would have been nice to hear that...

Im so sad and feel almost betrayed today.

I’m sorry you’re in so much pain.

You wrote in your first post that fT told you some nice things in the email aswell. Could you try focusing on them?

Myself, I easily misunderstand or overinterpret an email response. Or the lack of one..

Once I emailed my T and she didn’t respond. It was the first time that she didn’t respond to my email and I was so disapointed and I thought that she probably was sick of me. When I asked her in session later if that was the case, she looked very surprised. She appologized and said that she had been away for a couple of days and that she wasn’t sick of me at all.

Thank you Amandea,

yes, fT said a FEW positive things but i strongly believe they were said just out of politeness and didnt mean them at all. they actually give me bad vibes.

i know im agonizing over this all… all i can do is writing here, talking pills, alcohol, SH and hoping i die soon.

i will never go back to them after this. or to anyone else.

i knew it would have been hard, i imagined something like this but imagining is one thing, living it is another…

Thanks for your support. i hope i dont bother anyone if i keep writing and posting here...

I'm sorry you're struggling so much. From what my T has told me when I've talked more in general about termination with clients, many T's don't feel it's ethical to continue contact with a client once they've terminated. Because it puts them in an awkward position--if you're still communicating back and forth, are you still technically their client? Are they still liable for you? And then they're doing that without pay. Also, if a client terminates, then T's tend to want to respect that decision. "Chasing" a client, even just asking them to come in for another session, can be considered unethical. So your T's may be going by that theory, and this has nothing to do with you--it's just their standard for handling clients who have terminated.


If you feel you *do* want another session with either of them, if you want to discuss this more, you can certainly email and come right out and say that you've realized you'd like another session to wrap things up (or call and request it). Then it would be clear what you're asking for. As it sounds like you have some unfinished business/loose ends you want to discuss with each of them. I'd think at least the male T would grant you that. Or even if you want to go back to therapy with him, even on a less frequent basis, like biweekly or once a month. Maybe think about whether you'd want to try that?

Thank you LonesomeTonight,

Though it doesnt feel like they're just following the rules... they havent in the past. Its not the first time i (tried to) quit.

It feels so PERSONAL that is why its so painful.

And why asking me to email them and then answering without compassion and making me feel miserabe or not answering at all???

I do not want to go back but i would have liked an answer or a better one and having clear how they think and feel about ut, because they didnt say it... and never said i can contact them again in the future, something that they have said in the past.

So it really feels its personal rejection, tired and fed up with me and not wanting anything to do with me ever again. And it HURTS SO MUCH.

ID LIKE TO UNDERSTAND... JUST THAT

You terminated your therapy with them. Professional boundaries generally mean they will not contact you once you have terminated.Technically, you are no longer their client, so technically it would be unethical for them to pursue contact with you.

If you really didn't mean to terminate, if this was some kind of a test of their caring, probably what you will need to do is make another appointment and go in and reestablish a working relationship with them as your therapists.

So they will never contact me again?

Ill never see them again?

Ill never hear their voices again?

BROKEN HEARTED