[comrademoomoo]

I was kidding. A little jokette to ease our existential angst. I should learn to keep my wily and dastardly ways to myself.

[here today]

Originally Posted by ElectricManatee

I feel like some therapists would end up losing previously earned CE credits if stopdog is doing the grading.

Which could be a very good thing, if the people losing the credits lack "the self reflection for it to be useful to them in any way." The therapists wouldn't like it but perhaps it could increase some motivation for them to improve their ability to self-reflect?

Which gets back to the purpose of the therapy enterprise -- enhancing therapists' pocketbooks and self-esteem or helping the people who come and pay them for help? It can be both/and, but if the clients aren't getting help and instead are getting hurt. . .and if the therapists aren't listening to client feedback or self-reflecting . . .then it can more easily become the exploitation and abuse which some/many of us have experienced. And which we, let's face it, may have lacked the self-reflection to understand at the time. . .BUT. . .it is NOT the case that there is "equality" in the therapist-client "relationship". If it were, why would we be paying them?

[LonesomeTonight]

Sometimes I think my T should be paying me for CE credits--he's acknowledged that he's learned quite a bit through working with me.

[here today]

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

I was kidding. A little jokette to ease our existential angst. I should learn to keep my wily and dastardly ways to myself.

I thought your comment was just fine. It seemed like a very good jokette to me. Whom did it hurt, really?

[nottrustin]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Sometimes I think my T should be paying me for CE credits--he's acknowledged that he's learned quite a bit through working with me.

In a letter to me, T told me she learns something from every client. She said I taught her so much over the years and thanked me for being a part if her life.

[Shotokan]

Originally Posted by here today

Maybe he already knows, or has picked up on it from other threads, but I think one big factor is that people who come to therapy frequently have a history of childhood trauma. And they/we may have numbed out a lot, including trauma bond patterns that they/we tend to form and other (unconscious) coping defense mechanisms, which the therapy is supposed to elucidate but when the therapist -- often -- has a history of childhood trauma, too, despite their best efforts much may remain and they end up exploiting and hurting us, rand/or wasting our time and money, which is a kind of hurt and exploitation IMO.

In addition to more awareness about trauma bonds and how they may play out in therapy -- and perhaps helping to educate the client BEFORE something might possibly happen (which the therapist probably never expects until too late!), there could be more emphasis on Feedback Informed Therapy, which has a good history in the literature but has not been adopted by many practitioners.

My two cents.

Therapists, of course, could also survey, interview, and otherwise do research on the people whom therapy fails and harms -- IF they really wanted to, IF that was a priority in their view of what was important to do.

My therapist already knows about abuse taking place because he has actually witnessed it at one of his former work places. He could hear what was going on through the walls. In fact, it was his first job. He has also had clients come to him because they were abused by other clinicians. One of my former therapists was also known for abusing clients.

My parents were divorced when I was a very young child, but I grew up with a very loving and caring mother. But, the emotional abuse from a therapist still happened. My therapy had absolutely nothing to do with attachment issues; It had to do with getting my OCD treated. I also have a good friend who was victimized by a psychiatrist, and she grew up in a very nurturing and loving family. Unfortunately, there are a lot of predator clinicians that were not caught "through the system." They ended up severely harming clients no matter what type of background the clients have.

[Shotokan]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

So you feel OK about his reading through the site? Does he know your username (or was he able to figure out it was you?)

My T knows I use this site. I almost accidentally said my username once, and he said it wouldn't matter if I shared it, that he'd never look on here without my permission. So I told him. (I trust that he wouldn't look on here.)

And he agrees that, from what I've said, this site can be very supportive. He even said it was basically a support group at one point (when I said I'd never used a support group, and he was like, "uh...what about the forum?") My former marriage counselor seemed against my using it, so it's nice that T supports it and realizes that it has value for me.

I am actually okay with him reading my posts.

[Shotokan]

Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ

Hi Shokotan,

Thank you for sharing! This was interesting to hear about your therapist's perspective. I am pleased to hear that you have an ethical therapist! That is Amazing! Can you please point me in the right direction?! I have a terrible track record of being harmed over and over again. Unbelievably broken system.

I wonder how many of our therapists are online reading this stuff... Hopefully they learn from it rather than seeing it as a major issue. Potential for litigation and libel if they found out... You know what... If I get sued for libel and wind up going to prison for telling the truth - I suppose then I would have ample time to write a book. We can basically ask for support from the community to help expose the problem, couldn't we? I mean - in a class-action suit. The entire psychological community cannot possibly silence an army of people who have all been made subject to abuse and Institutional Betrayal upon speaking up and or filing complaints / lawsuits after the fact. I know I would happily go on record with a few hundred other survivors out there if one of us was dragged into a court case! I would be HAPPY to provide testimony as a whistle-blower / truth-speaker.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

Hi HD,

I am sorry that you are having such a hard time finding someone that is ethical. It took me such a long time to find him. I went through at least 30 clinicians before I found him. I was almost ready to give up.


It is interesting that you mentioned court cases. Wow! I would ABSOLUTELY testify about this stuff happening! I think my therapist would too. You know if you were writing a book, I'd want to be a part of it! I mean these goons have to be stopped. Hands down!


You are very creative!


HD thank you very much.

[Shotokan]

Originally Posted by bpcyclist

I have to admit, this made me a little uncomfortable...

Do you mean that you are afraid that your therapist might find this forum and read on here? My psychologist didn't know about this forum until I told him.


I am sorry if this made you feel uncomfortable.

[Shotokan]

Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins

. . . because clients don't have their own "dastardly" and "wily" ways, right?

Just playing devil's advocate here, but there is plenty of these "ways" to go around on both sides of the equation, and if a therapist, like the OPs takes a look at this forum (do we really think they don't already know PC exists?) and says it looks like a supportive site, I don't see the harm. Or, if a therapist looks around here and perhaps, like the OPs therapist, sees the level of harm that some clients have encountered, perhaps it is a learning experience for them. And, aren't there individuals on here constantly saying therapist don't understand or recognize the client's experience, so wouldn't this be one way to perhaps gain that insight somewhat?

Just some thoughts. I have no dog in this fight anymore.

This statement that you made here is awesome!

[guilloche]

Shotokan - Thanks so much for posting your therapists thoughts about the forum. It was much kinder and more positive than I expected, and very nice to see.

I had shown some of my own posts to a previous therapist (I posted to work out issues that I was having with him, was encouraged to share the posts with him, and did so). It helped me a lot, but he ended up with the impression that this was an "anti-therapy" forum. I couldn't seem to get him to correct that, to the point where, when I moved on to another therapist, he told her that I liked posting mean things about my therapist (I'm paraphrasing, I don't remember exactly how he worded it.)

I really love that he "got" how many people end up hurt by therapists. I've had so many crappy experiences... it's been expensive, hurtful, and not helpful. I don't think my therapists were even terribly bad as therapists but they seemed completely incompetent in how to deal with my issues. It's really turned me off from therapy.

Anyway, thank you for sharing!

[susannahsays]

I don't care about therapists reading this forum. I don't particularly care about a random person's opinion on this forum, either. He's a therapist but he could be a chef or a pro basketball player for all the difference it makes to me. I would probably care if he worked in criminal justice or IT, though, since he clearly has no grasp on how anything works in those industries.

[~Christina]

Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins

. . . because clients don't have their own "dastardly" and "wily" ways, right?


Just playing devil's advocate here, but there is plenty of these "ways" to go around on both sides of the equation, and if a therapist, like the OPs takes a look at this forum (do we really think they don't already know PC exists?) and says it looks like a supportive site, I don't see the harm. Or, if a therapist looks around here and perhaps, like the OPs therapist, sees the level of harm that some clients have encountered, perhaps it is a learning experience for them. And, aren't there individuals on here constantly saying therapist don't understand or recognize the client's experience, so wouldn't this be one way to perhaps gain that insight somewhat?


Just some thoughts. I have no dog in this fight anymore.

My Therapist has no idea PC existed... T’s don’t chase down support sites across the web they are far too busy .

They see clients and they go home to there family and live there lives. There world is not about Therapy 24/7. They literally need strong boundaries and self care.. they must not bring home “ work”

[SlumberKitty]

My Regular T didn't know about it either. Neither did Pastor T. Neither did my Care Coordinator. Former T didn't know about it either. I doubt any of them has actually looked at it, except maybe my care coordinator because part of her job is giving resources and tools to people so if it is something that can help, she might look it up. I doubt she has time to sit here and read the forums though.

[stopdog]

Where does this bizarre concept that therapists are "too busy" to do anything? They are not too busy. They may or may not be interested, but they are most certainly not more busy than any other professional or any one in general. Therapists are not special, no matter how much they hold themselves out to be.

[SlumberKitty]

I guess I don't necessarily think of therapists being too busy outside of their professional day. The therapists I've seen (outside of Pastor T who seems to have a lot of time on his hands) tend to see clients back to back without much time for even a bathroom break in between. Regular T usually comes and gets me, then goes to the bathroom, then comes back into the room with me. She usually goes the whole hour though, not this 50 minutes is an hour crap. But I think when they are off of work, they might not spend time coming to forums and stuff. When I am off of work, I spend maybe 10% of my time doing work related things or work research things (reading industry articles for example, or checking work email). But I don't want to spend my whole night or weekend doing work stuff. I imagine probably T's don't want to either.

[here today]

Originally Posted by Shotokan

My therapist already knows about abuse taking place because he has actually witnessed it at one of his former work places. He could hear what was going on through the walls. In fact, it was his first job. He has also had clients come to him because they were abused by other clinicians. One of my former therapists was also known for abusing clients.

My parents were divorced when I was a very young child, but I grew up with a very loving and caring mother. But, the emotional abuse from a therapist still happened. My therapy had absolutely nothing to do with attachment issues; It had to do with getting my OCD treated. I also have a good friend who was victimized by a psychiatrist, and she grew up in a very nurturing and loving family. Unfortunately, there are a lot of predator clinicians that were not caught "through the system." They ended up severely harming clients no matter what type of background the clients have.

Thanks, very good point. There are lots of reasons why clients may not be able to see or understand or protect ourselves from emotional abuse and victimization in therapy.

[divine1966]

Most people don’t come home after long work day and possibly long commute and search online forums where they can read what people say about their jobs. Most people take care of their family and spend time with loved ones, do chores, pursue hobbies, relax and if they are on the Internet it’s very unlikely that they search for online forums about their jobs.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Sometimes I think my T should be paying me for CE credits--he's acknowledged that he's learned quite a bit through working with me.

Both of the ones I hired said that sort of thing to me. I think it is mooe a line the two I hired learned in therapy school than that they meant it.

[koru_kiwi]

Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins

if a therapist, like the OPs takes a look at this forum (do we really think they don't already know PC exists?) and says it looks like a supportive site, I don't see the harm. Or, if a therapist looks around here and perhaps, like the OPs therapist, sees the level of harm that some clients have encountered, perhaps it is a learning experience for them. And, aren't there individuals on here constantly saying therapist don't understand or recognize the client's experience, so wouldn't this be one way to perhaps gain that insight somewhat?

when i was in therapy, this is exactly why i shared with my T that i was participating in this forum along with another support forum i frequented. i was hoping if he visited here, that it would help him understand the perspectives better from the clients side. unfortunately, it did not have that effect for him. his comment to me when he shared he had a quick glance at PC was something along the lines that he was surprised that there are quite a few 'messed up' people out there (i took this to mean there are a lot of people struggling with mental health issues). then years later, upon reading my session notes that i had requested, he had made a comment about how he he was concerned and did not think it was helpful for me to be visiting these online forums. although i will never know the exact reason for his opinion, i personally think he was worried and fearful of the 'ideas' that i might have received by talking to others about therapy, and that it would interfere with therapy. i suspect it was more of a reflection about his own issues and insecurities.

even if at the time he had been honest and shared his disapproval and reservations about me coming here, i would not have stopped visiting the support forums. for me, therapy was already such an incredibly lonely and confusing journey, i valued the knowledge, insight, and support of others who knew similarly too much to give that up for my T.