I swore at my therapist

I sort of love this.

I have never sworn at my therapist and would never do that. I consider it verbal abuse. I wouldn’t want anyone swearing at me so, therefore, I wouldn’t do it to anyone.

Therapy is messy, it is not as simple as calling it verbal abuse and done. If a stranger says that to me then yup we are not talking further, if someone I knew a week or two or a month says that then my boundary would be to say no, but if someone who I have worked with deeply on things that are painful and scary says it to me? I ask why. I think asking why opens up to a bigger conversation. Getting hung up on the bad word closes that door.

Yes you can asset a boundary that it is not ok but to not even ask why? You are missing out on an answer that is worth exploring. Pain isn't always expressed perfectly. I don't think you need to allow yourself to be abused but I do think a smart person would look at the pain behind the words. I hope your T can do this with you.

I also get angry at my T whenever she goes away, it is my way of missing her less.

My son has done CBT and my husband did DBT. My husband and I are also doing marriage counseling. I can’t imagine ever swearing at the therapist in any of these type of therapies. However, the individual therapist I am seeing now is psychodynamic and boy oh boy does all sorts of “deep” and hidden stuff pop up. Stuff I never imagined. In that context, I imagine that a little swearing now and then, is probably acceptable. Maybe it needs to be talked about, but I’m thinking it’s probably ok. I guess I’ll find out.

Well said. I like the way you explain this. BTW, my therapist’s favorite line is “relationships are messy.”

I think swearing can give the therapist an idea of were the client is at. If the client has never sworn in years and suddenly they do, it might indicate how much she/he is struggling.

Wow, yeah. That t would have spat at me and said how unendearing I am (again) I never even swore at him... wish I had. Because he was repeatedly mean to me, out of nowhere.

However if the t is competent they would not take it personally especially if it isn't a repeating pattern.

I have said FU to my therapist and other more worse things as well. I don't generally use strong language in my personal life but a therapist who would draw a boundary there and would say that this is verbal abuse and he does not tolerate it would have made my treatment extremely difficult for me because I still have lots of repressed anger and rage and getting in touch with it has been incredibly difficult. If the therapist would say that you can only express your anger in a constructive way then I probably wouldn't be able to do it at all. I am able to do it now, but I definitely couldn't get here if there would have been such a demand in the first place.

The hard boundary for my T is physical agression and that to me felt a while ago like the only way to express my rage. Either freeze and suppress completely or smash everything - at least that was my fantasy in my frozen state. My T told me to try to swear at him or find some other movement (aside smashing things) to express what is happening inside me. Even raising my voice and swearing at him was so difficult at first. So, in my experience, swearing at the therapist can be a very important part of the work. The therapist would be quite stupid if he would be offended by that and take personally.

I don’t think it’s the end of the world and he likely/hopefully won’t take it personal. Sometimes students swear at teachers and patients swear at nurses and doctors and clients swear at therapists. Upset or angry or generally in a bad place emotionally or whatever other reasons might be. It happens. Certainly bad language and profanity shouldn’t be encouraged but as long as there is no threat of physical violence, no one died from being cussed at

Every psychologist/psychiatrist (I've seen many) that I saw had a rule that swearing was aloud as long as it wasn't at one another. I am a VERY angry person, and yet I never swore at any of them. I raised my voice at them, but I never found it necessary to cuss at them. But, I state agree that swearing at them or anyone is a boundary violation. Instead I usually get EXTREMELY sarcastic, and that gets my point through more than if I were to swear at them. I have found that people get stunned and the effect lasts longer when I get really sarcastic with them instead of swearing at them.

Well I guess I will eventually find out if it’s a “boundary violation” for my T. I kind of don’t think so, but we’ll see. I’ve done it once before and he didn’t say it was, but I also think our relationship has evolved.

Also, maybe it’s all the same, but I kind of feel like writing it n an email is different than, say, shouting it at someone, but maybe I’m just making excuses.

With him it may not be; I am just going by my experience. I doubt that he would even entertain the idea of terminating you. That would be too much or simply weird if he were to.

calling a single “**** you” verbal abuse is totally inaccurate. abuse is a pattern over time and extremely damaging. some of us have problems expressing hurt and keep everything inside no matter what and that sounds like you. yes it’s socially inappropriate behavior as a way to express pain and hurt, but therapy is a great space to explore that impulse and if your T is any good he will KNOW already that this is out of character for you and see it as a sign of progress in your relationship.

Writing it in an email would be worse imo because it didn't just come out in an instant where you lost self control. I admit I'm comparing it to murder. The method by which you transmitted the FU means it was premeditated and wasn't a "crime" of passion or temporary insanity.

Do you want it to have been a boundary violation? I'm unclear. Just asking because sometimes I want to sabotage things by way of trampling all over boundaries.

Maybe you are seeking rejection from him. I know you felt emotionally rejected by your dad - and maybe his suicide felt like the ultimate rejection and abandonment. Could be that having your therapist be accepting all the time is confusing for you - it feels good but makes you uneasy. Him going away makes it harder to manage any anxiety or confusion because you don't have the opportunity to touch base with him as usual and assess the situation. So instead of the feelings being regulated, they just intensify and you have to do something to take the heat off. So you send the FU message rejecting him.

I didn't state that swearing at him was verbal abuse, but it is STILL a HANDS DOWN boundary violation.

Again, I am full of ANGER, but I didn't have to swear at my former therapists to get my point across.

And just because you don't want it to be a boundary violation, it doesn't mean that the therapist is junk if he considers it to be one.

Yes, I think what you say makes a lot of sense. I’m totally cliche aren’t I? It’s funny to me sometimes that understanding your history doesn’t always make it better. Seems like it should.

I’m definitely seeking rejection from him on some level. I keep going back because I obviously like how nice and accepting he is, but it’s also difficult for me to accept sometimes. I’m also pretty uncomfortable with having any sort of feelings about this person who I pay to listen to me talk. It feels wrong or even shameful if I start liking it too much or letting it feel too close. The strong feelings I have about him being on vacation just feel creepy and wrong, so the FU email was probably an attempt to create distance.

did I quote you? someone called it verbal abuse. more than one person actually. it is a boundary violation, though I would say boundary crossing (see where I said it was “socially inappropriate”????) and boundary crossings are good things to talk about in therapy. my point wasn’t that the therapist was bad if he doesn’t consider it a boundary problem but that Lrad has said it’s out of character and they’re embarrassed and T should know that it is an expression of abandonment pain. it’s like if you haven’t ever done something like that in your life and do it once out of hurt, it is different than if you go around swearing at everyone.

also Lrad I have a similar abandonment trauma to you (parental suicide) and when my T leaves for vacation I get really distressed. extreme distress. I haven’t said FU but have sent distressed emails and I think it’s a relatively common thing for people who have been abandoned as kids. to want connection but be scared to be abandoned, and then feel abandoned at inappropriate times, and realize it means you are attached, which causes extra distress. T should know this isn’t about him and you are triggered by his leaving you.

My T would definitely be bothered by it, but he'd share how he felt about it (it's one of his things), we'd discuss it, and we'd work past it. He wouldn't terminate me over it. I see some similarities between our T's, so I could see yours reacting similarly.

Don't let yourself get overly worried about the responses here that indicate it was verbal abuse and they wouldn't put up with it.

A good T will have the ability to move on a long (unless it's a long standing pattern accompanied by lack of growth or something).

I said the same thing to my T about three months ago. Our relationship has never been the same, in a good way. He didn't appreciate being talked to like that, but he was extremely happy to keep working with me.

I apologized and took responsibility for what I said. I took the initiative to say what was going on when I said it, identify my needs, and allow him to share his side.

I don't know if it would have worked out the same if he had to pry that information from me or if I hadn't been truly apologetic for treating him that way.