What's wrong with my psychologist?

Thanks DechanDawa. I agree, there is weakness in the present system. Unfortunately it's common for academics in every field to assume the present system or model is flawless. History proves there's never been such a thing as a flawless model. Models have always improved over time. I'm now motivated to one day improve this, somehow, but that's in the far distant future.

Susannahsays, regarding what you said about emotional manipulation, although I definitively don't think that's true in every case, what you said was actually more helpful to me than what my psychologist has given me in the past 3 to 4 months! I'll try to learn more about that, but at the time I was fighting for my life, so I think it would be pretty sick for my psychologist to get offended and all defensive about emotional manipulation when their client is close to committing suicide.
About clients stopping medication, again, I don't agree that there should be a strict set of rules to apply. That's like asking a robot to do the job of a judge. Being a judge requires advanced cognitive thinking that presently cannot be detailed in some written set of rules. Yes, one day computers will have cognitive thinking, but it will be extremely complex software and a massive dynamic database, not some set of simple written rules. I believe people have the ability to know when they're feeling emotionless, no motivation, no passion that makes them feel like life is pointless. I'm sure glad I didn't take your advice that time, no offense intended.

Anyhow, if my psychologist followed the guidelines of the present system, then the system is flawed and can be improved. She put me in a psych ward and then abandoned me, told me to find another therapist. Wonderful, I leave a psych ward without a therapist, support, no closure, severe trauma of being banded forever that makes me feel like I'm a bad person, so traumatized that I'll probably never see a therapist again. If the guidelines state that if a client is not getting better, then the therapist must terminate therapy forever, then wow what a childish dangerous rule that surely has caused the deaths of many human beings! Did it ever occur to my psychologist that the fact my life exploded with a lot of severe problems was the cause for my recent decline and not because of her?!!! What a dangerous rule! That really upsets me because my therapist put my life in jeopardy. To top it off she's not allowed to contact me at all to give me closure? LOL are you kidding me. I'm hoping the guidelines are a bit more complicated than simply saying if the client is getting better than terminate. If that's the case that the guidelines are more complicated, then my therapist told the malpractice board a distorted picture and seriously put my life in jeopardy.

Sorry if this thread is going outside of the scope. My main concern is the fact that the reason I went to the bridge to do you know what is because my psychologist terminated me, forever. As far as I was concerned I was 100% certain I was going to do it. Before leaving to the bridge I emailed two of my spiritual friends asking them to pray for me on my journey to the other side.

I hope other people who are suicidal and seeking a psychologist will do a lot more investigation into their psychologist than I did. BTW, mine was a clinical psychologist, one who specializes in traumatized patients. She helped me a lot, until ~ the last week where she nearly killed me.

You nearly attempted suicide; she didn't nearly kill you. I recognise that you are in great pain. It might be reassuring to recognise your agency, especially in terms of ending your life.

When you called your therapist from Suicide Bridge was there something you really wanted to tell her, but couldn't for whatever reason? Was it due to shame? Fear of rejection?

I get the impression that you don't feel heard.

About stopping medication - I didn't mean you don't have the choice to stop it and you don't know how you're feeling. I was saying it's beyond the scope of psychotherapy and the competence of the therapist to tell you to stop taking a medication or even to endorse you going off a medication without speaking to the prescriber because there would be a case for malpractice if something bad happened as a result. Many medications have severe withdrawal effects either psychologically or physically. For example, when I was weaning off of Cymbalta (under the supervision of my psychiatrist), I felt physically ill and cried all day. I quit my job because everything felt so overwhelming. I failed one of my classes. I'm also on a mood stabilizer, and stopping that abruptly puts me at risk for seizures. Yet another medication when stopped gives me withdrawal panic attacks that paralyze me and prevent me from following through on my commitments. I guess all I'm saying is that stopping medications, particularly psychotropics, is no joke. A therapist can only advise a client who is experiencing adverse effects to speak to the prescriber. If yours didn't do that, she should have.

Here is the relevant excerpt from the APA Code of Ethics (emphasis mine):

2.01 Boundaries of Competence
(a) Psychologists provide services, teach, and conduct research with populations and in areas only within the boundaries of their competence, based on their education, training, supervised experience, consultation, study, or professional experience.

I agree that the ethics rule about terminating clients is flawed. I've read multiple client accounts where the client was terminated using this excuse and it was really devastating to the client. I do think you probably need a higher level of care, but I don't think the way she went about it was in your best interests. It was about protecting herself. Honestly, I can understand why she did what she did since it's her livelihood at stake, but that doesn't mean I think you got what you deserved or that I don't wish things were different.

Here is the excerpt of the relevant ethics rule (emphasis mine):

10.10 Terminating Therapy
(a) Psychologists terminate therapy when it becomes reasonably clear that the client/patient no longer needs the service, is not likely to benefit, or is being harmed by continued service.

In my opinion, you made a really good point when you asked her how referring you to another therapist was going to get you more help. Technically, the hospital was responsible for arranging your post-discharge treatment, so she's off the hook (even though I disagree with that, it's the way things work). But I think she should have tried harder to identify a program or service that would provide more intensive support. Instead, it seems like she decided to just make you someone else's "problem." I disagree with that.

You can read the complete Code of Ethics on the APA website here.

DechanDawa, I'm sorry you seem upset by my reply to you. However, I took exception to what you said about people supporting the therapist over OP and it did also seem like you were insinuating that the therapist should have addressed OP's med problem. I apologize if my assumption about the latter was in error.

Support does not always look the same. I think it would be hollow support and not helpful in the long run to pretend that the therapist's actions are inexplicable and OP had no agency in the conflict. I gave OP the kind of response I would want in his shoes - insight rather than focusing on the theme of victimization. It wasn't comfortable for me to do that because there is always a risk that someone will take feedback the way you seem to have taken it. But my aim was to lessen OP's confusion about what happened in the hope that he will feel able to seek help again if feels he needs to. Unfortunately, he is not going to be able to get closure in the form of a discussion with this therapist. However, some degree of closure may be obtained from gaining an understanding of what went wrong. My interpretation was that OP was missing insight into the therapist's perspective, so that is what I focused on.

At this point, I have read of many people like OP, and on some level I also relate, and their behavior pushes people away. This really sucks because as OP said, he has no one - and it sounds like he longs for connection.

As for not separating my posts addressed to you and to OP, I think you're being a bit pedantic. I clearly put your names before each section. And there's no reason for you to suppose I don't know OP has a psychiatrist. Did I not go on my soapbox about how he should talk to them about his meds rather than his therapist? It's confusing that you're informing me that this is the way it should work given I'm the one who said so in the first place.

Rather sly the way you listed off points to confront me about then tried to shut down any reply from me at the end. I'm not trying to argue with you but I'm not going to tolerate mischaracterizations, either.

The_little_didgee, she was the only person in my life. Not just any person. A professional who cared a lot about me. After all, she was spending 4 hours per day on me outside of therapy. I didn't know that. I tried my best to pay her for all of her time & to increase session fee from $50 to $150, but she always refused. I think she cared a lot about me. But at the bridge the only thing I was hoping for was for her to want to be my therapist again. That's all I wanted. Whenever I was feeling overwhelmed or needed help she was always there for me able to set an appointment that day, even if it was after hours for her. It's amazing what a difference it makes in life when there's someone close to you who knows you're suffering, who cares about you, who wants to help you. It makes you feel like you're not alone in real life.

Susannahsays, thanks for the helpful info. Sorry, I was seeing everything from my pov. You make good points. Therapist are probably a big target for people who easily sue. I feel bad. She was protecting herself, her children & family. Maybe that's why she can't even reply to me now. But it hurts not knowing if she's upset with me, tired of me, disappointed in me, or still cares about me. I think she tried her best to see I was in good hands by sending me to the psych ward.

The psych ward made an appointment for me with a social worker. She called today. Some how I ended up with an appointment with a psychiatrist tomorrow & a therapist next tuesday. I guess this is why my ex-therapist wanted me to go to the psych ward. It makes me feel like she still had my best interest, and cared! A few things still bother me. When I was at the bridge, she said on the phone, "Go to your car now or I'm hanging up!" Is that proper protocol, or was she really pissed at me?

I don't think she should have threatened to hang up on you. I'm not sure if she was pissed - she was probably just really worried and scared about what you might do and was saying anything she could think of, but that isn't an excuse. I also don't think you should feel bad about what happened based on how it affected her - that wasn't my intention. It's just that in order to best protect yourself from being hurt in situations like this, it's really good to be able to see the other side of things so you can better anticipate how interactions will go. It's scary to have something like this happen and have no idea why it occurred, you know?

I don't think it was appropriate for her to guilt trip you by telling you she has been spending 4 hours a day on you. You didn't ask her to do that and it's her responsibility to manage her own boundaries. If she got burned out doing extra work, that's her failure, not yours. She probably did really care, and unfortunately that got in the way of her self care and professional boundaries, leading to burn out and compassion fatigue. It sounds like she really should have referred you to more intensive services before this crisis situation occurred. That would have been so much better for both of you. Again, I want to emphasize that it's not your fault that she chose to spend all this extra time that led to her being burned out. Therapists are educated about the importance of self care, and she should not have lashed out at you by making a passive aggressive comment about spending 4 hours a day on you.

I am glad to hear it sounds like you're going to go to your appointments with the new people. I hope you let us know how it goes!

Thanks for the support! By the way, any recommendations if I should tell my new psychiatrist and therapist that I almost did you know what on the bridge? I’m afraid they’ll banned me for life as well if I tell them, But that would be hiding important trauma from them which seems counterproductive to therapy.

I've always been asked upon intake about previous suicide attempts or history of suicidal thoughts/actions. I've found it has been best just to be honest and upfront about it.

PS: She might also have seen that (cf. bridge) as some sort of emotional blackmail or playing games to reel her in. In that case, I don't think it would have gone down well for her. It would only have emphasised how she should not work with you anymore.

I wouldn’t doubt it. Every so often in therapy she would make comments that was based on speculation and like paranoia on her part.

While walking away from the bridge to my car while speaking to her on my cell phone, I made it very clear to her that I was not trying to blackmail her in anyway, but rather I only want her to “want” to be my therapist. Also, just prior to leaving to the bridge while I was home, I emailed two spiritual friends that I had in the past asking them to please pray for me on my passage to the afterlife. So I don’t care what she thinks. That was no joke in my life. I meant 100% certain to j*** off the bridge. If that’s what she thought then she was playing with my life based on suspicion!

Everything I've wrote is the truth, at least as far as I know, but after thinking about it a lot maybe a lot of it's my fault. I've always been embarrassed to tell anyone I have BPD, even at PC. Quoting Wikipedia, "people with BPD may cause dramatic emotions in their therapists."

And here's an even more devastating wikipedia quote,
"People with BPD are considered to be among the most challenging groups of patients to work with in therapy, requiring a high level of skill and training for the psychiatrists, therapists and nurses involved in their treatment.[178] A majority of psychiatric staff report finding individuals with BPD moderately to extremely difficult to work with and more difficult than other client groups.[179] Efforts are ongoing to improve public and staff attitudes toward people with BPD.[180][181]"

Borderline personality disorder - Wikipedia

Suicidal gestures and threats make navigating interpersonal problems very difficult, because it corners people and makes them feel manipulated. There are other options to work through a conflict that are less likely to permanently sever a relationship.

No, I don't think you are evil, nasty etc... Actually I see a person embedded in your posts who is hurting and desperate to be heard. You just lack the skills to communicate that to others.

I agree with what everyone else is saying.

This is a learning experience for you. I know it hurts a ton, and you feel abandoned, but your actions, from the therapists perspective probably did feel manipulative. Pushing people, even therapists, in relationships to places where they arent comfortable is likely to cause ruptures. In the future, when someone tells you that you have pushed past a boundry it is probably in your best interests to listen to them.

It is what we owe each other as human beings.

I dont think you are a bad person, and I am sorry that this ended the way it did. But now you know what not to do when you see your next therapist.

That's a tough one. Personally, I'd rather know sooner rather than later if somebody isn't up to the job. If you do tell them, I would be careful to frame it as something you regret (assuming that's true). Express a desire to work with them to figure out a safer, more effective way to communicate. It might be that you have trouble even knowing what you want, need, or feel sometimes and that makes it difficult to convey your pain. Perhaps it's just hard to explain why you feel so bad sometimes because you don't know why, and the only way you've come up with to convey that you're not ok and the intensity of your pain is to express suicidal ideation. Those are just ideas, they may or may not be true for you and if they are true, I doubt it's a conscious process.

You also need to recognize what a huge issue this fear of abandonment is for you since it almost drove you to attempt suicide. That's got to be a really painful way of existing, where not having a particular person in your life anymore becomes a life threatening situation. Is your new therapist experienced in working with BPD?

I'm not trying to intrude on your thread, but having had my own rather bad experience with a T when I was feeling suicidal (we ultimately worked through it, but I left for a few weeks), it makes me wonder about things. It seems like T's wouldn't want clients to hide suicidal thoughts or intentions. But then if that could risk the relationship, should we even tell them? I mean, I know there are crisis lines, but I think of my attempt to connect with a texting one that night, and I was in the queue for like an hour...and eventually gave up. And I've heard how sometimes they're just like "Take a hot bath and relax!" or else the other extreme of calling the cops to your door. So, how are we supposed to handle it? I know my T turns his phone off at like 9 pm, for example (and doesn't really allow phone calls or nonscheduling texts--emails are fine, and he said he'd make occasional exceptions for crisis calls). So if I was feeling awful at 2 am, calling/texting him wouldn't be an option anyway. But what if it was in the afternoon? Do I take the risk of reaching out to him? I suppose this would be something to talk about with him again. Not that I'm feeling that way right now, but, to know for the future.

And Stahrgeyzer, it could be a discussion to have with the new therapist you're seeing. To ask what to do if you're feeling that way again.

Perhaps therapists could help clients learn to contain and manage suicidal ideation. If it is not addressed how can therapists help a client manage it? If they aren't good at helping a client manage suicidal ideation...well, maybe a client needs a new therapist...but also...the client can learn some resilience around suicidal ideation as perhaps they will often need to deal with it on their own.

The more people act like this is a secret the more society will remain stigmatized around it. Perhaps if therapists were more open and accepting of suicidal ideation it would not be seen as a means of manipulation. As one very wise poster said many comments back...if a person accepts that they have agency...I like that word...it means the ability to accept responsibility for the self and apply self-care...well...it might not completely eradicate suicidal ideation...but it could go a long way in helping to manage it. Until such time as the underlying root causes are addressed.


Crisis hotlines have their place and there is no sense citing all the times someone has called and not gotten perfect help. It's not helpful to repeat some secondary sources of stories about hotlines. In an emergency one should never have to wait more than a few minutes. Just hang up and call back. The first thing that is asked is if this is an emergency. If someone is not helping you hang up and call back and speak to someone else. No sense citing stories about crisis counselors who have not been helpful. Too bad people don't cite hundreds of times when people are helped and directed to services they need.

Suicidal ideation...thoughts, feelings, even actions such as such as standing on a bridge...these desperate thoughts and acts don't arise from nowhere. Why can't all thoughts including suicidal thoughts be explored in therapy? If a therapeutic container does not feel safe to do this who's at fault?


In my humble opinion a therapist who reacts instead of responds is not a skilled therapist.

I think discussion about what a client may or may not have done to interfere with decent therapy is moot. Let's not forget it is the therapist who is the professional, and the therapist who is collecting the fee. As far as what any board allows or doesn't allow them...that is the therapist's business as a professional and not something they should be discussing with clients or patients.

These few comments I have made with SG'S well being in mind as he moves forward into new therapeutic situations.

I am not interested in arguing points here. I think there have been many great comments and so much to think about.

Let's continue to support one another in this journey.

I just typed this email to my ex-therapist and wanted so much to send it but I couldn't. Guess I'm just venting or something. Hope it's okay to post it here.

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Your domain expires 2020-06-19. I told you this in therapy & set a calendar reminder. Someone will take it if you don't renew. Shouldn't cost more than $20. Renew: ********************
I hope you're good to other clients. Talked to lot of therapists & a psychiatrist. What you did to me was wrong! You have a big heart but you're easily irritable & have a temper. I never had problems with R*******. I canceled so many times with you because of you. The unacceptable things you've said and did to me from time to time. Plopping your book down, facial expressions, body language. Maybe you easily misinterpret things. Idk because you won't talk. Sorry it ends this way but ignoring me is childish & as one therapist said it's cruel. If you think badly of me then talk to me-- wait a few month, I'm too hurt now. Don't assume. I have to have therapy because of you! I almost lost my life because of you!! I forgive you! Now I must forget you. Best wishes, ****