advertisement
Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Bickle
New Member
Bickle has no updates.
 
Member Since: May 2020
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4
3 yr Member
Default May 31, 2020 at 04:05 PM
  #1
A therapist treating a compulsive liar has refused, despite the patients repeated requests they do so, to meet with other family members o hear their sides claiming it is a violation of professional ethics.

I have reviewed the state ethics code and can find nothing to match this claim. Once the patient gives informed consent it’s smooth sailing

Am I missing something?.
Bickle is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote

advertisement
Amyjay
Magnate
Amyjay has no updates.
 
Member Since: Mar 2017
Location: Underground
Posts: 2,439
5 yr Member
692 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jun 01, 2020 at 03:15 AM
  #2
You might be missing that maybe that particular therapist isn't happy doing family therapy. They don't have to. It can definitely be a conflict of interest to meet with others known to the client.
Amyjay is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
cakelover, Whalen84
nottrustin
Grand Magnate
 
nottrustin's Avatar
nottrustin has no updates.
 
Member Since: Jan 2014
Location: n/a
Posts: 4,819
10 yr Member
375 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jun 01, 2020 at 04:24 AM
  #3
I suspect it may be because the more people who are added to therapy, the more complicated it gets. I may seem like smooth said but it is likely to be anything but.

__________________

nottrustin is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
cakelover, Whalen84
unaluna
Elder Harridan x-hankster
 
unaluna's Avatar
unaluna Female luna moth - Please, dont @mention me?Thanks!
 
Member Since: Jun 2011
Location: Milan/Michigan
Posts: 39,753 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
66.1k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jun 01, 2020 at 04:57 AM
  #4
You cant make the therapist do something that they feel is not in your best interest. Like you cant boss them around like this. Here the patient is calling it "informed consent", but that definition is usually left up to treating physician.

Plus the role of a therapist is not to be the judge of arguments or arbiter of truth between family members.
unaluna is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
cakelover, susannahsays, Whalen84
Iloivar
Member
Iloivar has no updates.
 
Member Since: Sep 2018
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 210
5 yr Member
2 hugs
given
Default Jun 01, 2020 at 06:00 AM
  #5
I think they've made it more than clear that they won't be agreeing to your request, and they have the right to do that.

If you really want to know, you can ask them to explain further, and I suppose you can still inquire if there's still some confusion. But if you do, do that with the above in mind.
Iloivar is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
winter4me
Wise Elder
 
winter4me's Avatar
winter4me has no updates.
 
Member Since: Dec 2012
Location: new england
Posts: 7,733
10 yr Member
1,818 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jun 01, 2020 at 06:53 AM
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bickle View Post
A therapist treating a compulsive liar has refused, despite the patients repeated requests they do so, to meet with other family members o hear their sides claiming it is a violation of professional ethics.

I have reviewed the state ethics code and can find nothing to match this claim. Once the patient gives informed consent it’s smooth sailing

Am I missing something?.
You are not missing anything. It would not be a violation of professional ethics if the patient and family are OK with this. It obviously would be very uncomfortable for this therapist (who may believe it an ethical breach)---It sounds as though it might be good to find another T (not necessarily to give up this one if it is working well for the individual) who is comfortable doing Family therapy---This T should be able to give a referral to someone more skilled and comfortable with working with families.

__________________
"...don't say Home
/ the bones of that word mend slowly...' marie harris


winter4me is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
IceCreamKid
Grand Magnate
IceCreamKid has no updates.
 
Member Since: Jan 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,260
10 yr Member
306 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jun 01, 2020 at 04:54 PM
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bickle View Post
A therapist treating a compulsive liar has refused, despite the patients repeated requests they do so, to meet with other family members o hear their sides claiming it is a violation of professional ethics.

I have reviewed the state ethics code and can find nothing to match this claim. Once the patient gives informed consent it’s smooth sailing

Am I missing something?.
How do you know this?
IceCreamKid is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Bickle
New Member
Bickle has no updates.
 
Member Since: May 2020
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4
3 yr Member
Default Jun 01, 2020 at 06:57 PM
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amyjay View Post
You might be missing that maybe that particular therapist isn't happy doing family therapy. They don't have to. It can definitely be a conflict of interest to meet with others known to the client.
It’s not family therapy. It’s more like the witness stand so they can see the pathology. How do you know which are the lies without corroboration?
Bickle is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Bickle
New Member
Bickle has no updates.
 
Member Since: May 2020
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4
3 yr Member
Default Jun 01, 2020 at 06:58 PM
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceCreamKid View Post
How do you know this?
How do I know what?
Bickle is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Bickle
New Member
Bickle has no updates.
 
Member Since: May 2020
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4
3 yr Member
Default Jun 01, 2020 at 07:03 PM
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by unaluna View Post
You cant make the therapist do something that they feel is not in your best interest. Like you cant boss them around like this. Here the patient is calling it "informed consent", but that definition is usually left up to treating physician.

Plus the role of a therapist is not to be the judge of arguments or arbiter of truth between family members.
I’m not the patient. Informed consent is a legal term. The fact that they’re a compulsive liar is not in question. How do you treat a liar when you have no way to know when they lie?

“I don’t wanna” is not a justification. She agreed to treat this patient and is deliberately handicapping it.

Quote:
informed consent

permission granted in the knowledge of the possible consequences, typically that which is given by a patient to a doctor for treatment with full knowledge of the possible risks and benefits.
Bickle is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Omers
Grand Magnate
 
Omers's Avatar
Omers has no updates.
 
Member Since: Nov 2010
Location: Crimson cattery
Posts: 3,512
10 yr Member
3,133 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jun 01, 2020 at 08:54 PM
  #11
It may violate their professional ethics even if, in theory, waivers could be signed allowing the meeting. I know my T has refused to allow some people from my life to come to session but is very welcoming of others. He does state it as a professional ethics boundary... it is complicated but I can see what he is getting at.
One example was my son as my T 1. Did not feel competent to deal with my sons mental health issues 2. Felt that becoming involved in my parenting might threaten our other therapeutic work/relationship 3. That my son might become destructive and again, the dynamic may impact my work with T. T did however let my husband come to a session.

__________________
There’s been many a crooked path
that has landed me here
Tired, broken and wearing rags
Wild eyed with fear
-Blackmoores Night
Omers is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
susannahsays
unaluna
Elder Harridan x-hankster
 
unaluna's Avatar
unaluna Female luna moth - Please, dont @mention me?Thanks!
 
Member Since: Jun 2011
Location: Milan/Michigan
Posts: 39,753 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
66.1k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jun 02, 2020 at 03:00 AM
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bickle View Post
I’m not the patient. Informed consent is a legal term. The fact that they’re a compulsive liar is not in question. How do you treat a liar when you have no way to know when they lie?

“I don’t wanna” is not a justification. She agreed to treat this patient and is deliberately handicapping it.
Still, "informed consent" implies information is given by the doctor that is consented to by the person being treated. Like, if you have this operation you may die. What is the parallel here?

The therapist does not function as a human lie-detector test or machine. The therapist creates a safe space where perhaps one day the patient may be able to tell the truth.

My parents taught me to lie to them. Thereafter, even when i told the truth, they thought i was lying. Sometimes i was, but mostly i wasnt. But they started it when they promised they wouldnt punish me if only i would tell the truth, then laughed and said it was a trick to get me to confess and punished me. The trick part really hurt. Why does your liar lie?
unaluna is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Lemoncake, SlumberKitty
 
Thanks for this!
Quietmind 2, susannahsays
IceCreamKid
Grand Magnate
IceCreamKid has no updates.
 
Member Since: Jan 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,260
10 yr Member
306 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jun 03, 2020 at 07:37 AM
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bickle View Post
How do I know what?
You wrote:

"A therapist treating a compulsive liar has refused, despite the patients repeated requests they do so, to meet with other family members o hear their sides claiming it is a violation of professional ethics."

If you are not the patient, how do you know about the therapist's refusal?

I just want to suggest that sometimes people do not always tell the truth when they report what their therapist said. I am not even suggesting that the person is lying; it could very well be they report what they think the therapist said or meant. It sounds to me like the therapist does not want to do this and so the patient has two choices: either try whatever else the therapist is suggesting, or find another therapist who will have the kind of group meeting you are talking about.
IceCreamKid is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
cakelover, susannahsays
Salmon77
Poohbah
Salmon77 has no updates.
 
Member Since: Mar 2014
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,394
10 yr Member
106 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jun 04, 2020 at 05:20 PM
  #14
Quote:
It’s more like the witness stand so they can see the pathology.
Therapy isn't a prosecution and it's not an interrogation. It's a place where the client gets to talk, in private, and I'm afraid other family members aren't usually welcome.

I'd think a decent therapist would notice if their client lied a lot but I suppose it depends. Some people are good liars.
Salmon77 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
Quietmind 2, Rive., susannahsays
cakelover
New Member
 
cakelover's Avatar
cakelover has no updates.
 
Member Since: Jun 2020
Location: U.S.
Posts: 1
3 yr Member
Default Jun 10, 2020 at 10:53 PM
  #15
Hi, Bickle.

I don't think it is necessary to bring the family to identify lies or fact-check in order to treat the pathology itself. I would even go further and say that in psychotherapy it actually doesn't matter if what a person is saying is the truth or a lie, because what is going to happen there is finding out what is the purpose of what the person is saying, the words they choose and the meaning of the stories they tell...

I found an article explaining how treatment for pathological lying works ("What to Do When Your Client is a Pathological Liar"), and I thought it could help you, but since I'm a new member, they won't let me share it

Just Google it if you are interested.

Best regards!
cakelover is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
sarahsweets
Threadtastic Postaholic
 
sarahsweets's Avatar
sarahsweets has no updates.
 
Member Since: Dec 2018
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 6,006 (SuperPoster!)
5 yr Member
192 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Jun 12, 2020 at 03:30 AM
  #16
I am curious as to what your relationship is with the person in question?

__________________
"I carried a watermelon?"

President of the no F's given society.
sarahsweets is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:42 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® — Copyright © 2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.



 

My Support Forums

My Support Forums is the online community that was originally begun as the Psych Central Forums in 2001. It now runs as an independent self-help support group community for mental health, personality, and psychological issues and is overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world.

 

Helplines and Lifelines

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider.

Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here.