Damage Control

Hi Beth,

As you may remember, I had, and still have, a horrible negative transference to my last T, and eventually I connected it up to feelings that had been numbed out probably since childhood. Feeling that didn't change the transference a lot. I am now just somewhat more aware of how I have/had similar feelings about my life in the family when I was a child.

So, given what you have said about your transferences, I wondered if you have thought about, or have any feelings about, how much some of your distress about M might be transferential, too? Reaction to abandonment stuff like I had? Could there be anything like that in your background? Not that that helps much with how to cope with this situation currently, but maybe there's some information there that is or has been hard to know. It may be my projection, and is certainly none of my business, but there is something about the 2 comments I quoted above that strike me that way.

Please let me know if you feel I'm horning in here where it's not wanted and I apologize if that's the case.

All the talk about transference here in this forum right now -- I think we're touching on some very important stuff. I appreciate what you've been posting about.

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Originally Posted by here today Hi Beth, As you may remember, I had, and still have, a horrible negative transference to my last T, and eventually I connected it up to feelings that had been numbed out probably since childhood. Feeling that didn't change the transference a lot. I am now just somewhat more aware of how I have/had similar feelings about my life in the family when I was a child. Yes, I do remember. I can't recall, though, if you talked with your therapist about your negative transference. If you don't mind sharing, would you fill me in about that? So, given what you have said about your transferences, I wondered if you have thought about, or have any feelings about, how much some of your distress about M might be transferential, too? Reaction to abandonment stuff like I had? Could there be anything like that in your background? Not that that helps much with how to cope with this situation currently, but maybe there's some information there that is or has been hard to know. It may be my projection, and is certainly none of my business, but there is something about the 2 comments I quoted above that strike me that way. Please let me know if you feel I'm horning in here where it's not wanted and I apologize if that's the case. Thank you for caring enough to suggest - I'm grateful! Yes, I have a very strong transference with M. Since yesterday evening, when I heard the message from her receptionist that M. won't be in again this coming week I've been twisting up. By tonight, I'm obsessing over M. I'm not sure where she ends and I begin. I've just spent the past 2 hours trying to read a novel while fighting the transference feelings I have for my therapist. Trying so hard to fight them away, intellectualize them away. And the more I'm fighting, the worse it's getting. I actually thought about calling her on her private cell number (which I found online months ago). I'm not going to do that, but for an insane minute I considered it. Possible trigger: My childhood was full of inconsistency, abandonment, and abuse (physical, sexual, emotional). My mom was severely mentally ill. Although she was occasionally hospitalized, the treatments back then (60's - '70's) were not great. She never stuck with any therapy or medication. She could be so sensitive and loving, but when she went off she did such things as set fires in the house, cover all the windows with black tarp because she believed there was poison coming into the house, etc. I wasn't allowed to open the windows and it was awful in there, living with the black tarp for weeks at a time. When she was having an episode she would tell me she'd never wanted me and that while I was sleeping she would kill me. She knew my step-father was molesting me, but wouldn't do anything about it. My step-father, a man who had been horribly treated as a child, was an alcoholic and a collector of child porn. He was a "hands-on" perpetrator, but he was also an exhibitionist. i.e., he exposed himself at any given time to me and masturbated (my mom was present during those times, she'd chide him and kind of shake her head. I guess I just numbed out). In short, my mom could be loving in a certain way, but she was just...really unwell and uncontrollable. My own father, who I had loved very much, suddenly remarried when I was 6. I rarely saw him after that; he died when I was 25. In a nutshell, that gives you the general climate of my growing up years. Needless to say, I was an extremely anxious and seriously depressed child, then when I was a teen I developed bipolar disorder. All the talk about transference here in this forum right now -- I think we're touching on some very important stuff. I appreciate what you've been posting about. I entirely agree. I wish some of our therapists could read this board right now! At this time I'm considering that M. has no idea of the power of my transference with her. Although it's miserable and embarrassing, I'm planning to compose an email to her this week-end and tell her exactly what's going on with me. She won't see the email until she returns to work, but...whatever. At least she will see it. Thank you, here today.

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I am sorry for the ordeal. Personally I find it curious that you don’t correspond to her directly via cell and she never texted you, I assumed it’s a norm. Clearly I am wrong. I am not saying having a chit chat but simple text? Does she want these strict boundaries or you? And why would she not check emails until she gets to work? Is she ancient? But still everybody checks emails. My dad is 83 and he checks emails daily.

I understand being hesitant about seeing a different t but if this person is so sick she must be off work for two months, how useful is she as a therapist? It might be better than none but at this time it’s like having no t.

Since you have good relationship with your pdoc, could he refer you to a good t they might know? Not saying yours is no good but she is never there and you have to go through this stress of not knowing! Plus she doesn’t inform you directly which is frustrating.

If she works at a clinic, maybe there are rules about directly contacting clients? Like she might not be allowed to email with a client. In terms of checking her email, maybe for security reasons, she can only read her work email at the office? Just a thought. I know some T's in private practice, too, that don't allow emails or texts.

I don’t have answers to your questions.

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Originally Posted by divine1966 I am sorry for the ordeal. Personally I find it curious that you don’t correspond to her directly via cell and she never texted you, I assumed it’s a norm. Clearly I am wrong. I am not saying having a chit chat but simple text? Does she want these strict boundaries or you? And why would she not check emails until she gets to work? Is she ancient? But still everybody checks emails. My dad is 83 and he checks emails daily. Thank you for your reply, divine. Actually, it's me who doesn't use text. It's not a way I like to communicate. As far as emails, I agree. It seems to me that she could have emailed me just once, assuring me that she will be back when she's well. Or something like that. She is almost 70 and is definitely not much of an online person...that doesn't mean I'm excusing her lack of communication. The fact is, though, she works in a clinic and I don't pay to see her. So I'm guessing that one of her benefits for not being in private practice is less demand upon her personal time. She knows her health is not good, so I suppose she works in a place with a set-up for her to take time off when she needs to. If she was in private practice and I was paying her I would drop her immediately for not communicating with me. I understand being hesitant about seeing a different t but if this person is so sick she must be off work for two months, how useful is she as a therapist? It might be better than none but at this time it’s like having no t. I agree. 2 years ago, when I had just started therapy with her, she was out for 3 full months with pneumonia. To my thinking, if her health is that compromised, it might be time to retire. As for me, I feel stuck in limbo. Since you have good relationship with your pdoc, could he refer you to a good t they might know? Not saying yours is no good but she is never there and you have to go through this stress of not knowing! Plus she doesn’t inform you directly which is frustrating. I get updates from her receptionist, but that's it. She's given me 2 messages through the receptionist. My pdoc works with my therapist, so I don't expect her to provide outside referrals. Although, I can certainly ask her. My guess is that pdoc will tell me I need to speak directly with my therapist when she returns, express my anger, and decide with her what to do. My pdoc is big on having a termination process in therapy. (Which is confusing, since I'm not the one who disappeared for 5 weeks.) The major obstacle (besides having to do teletherapy with any T at this time, not a way I'd feel good about seeing a new T) is money. I don't pay my mental health team. All of my health care is free through that clinic. There aren't many options in the town where I live. Before my current T I saw 2 other ones here in town and although they were warm and friendly, I didn't click with them at all. So, since there's no way can I afford a private therapist, I have to take what I can get, which is not an ideal therapy situation. Still, I expect a level of professionalism that is higher than my therapist is providing right now. (My pdoc, however, is excellent at her job of med management.)

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Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight If she works at a clinic, maybe there are rules about directly contacting clients? Like she might not be allowed to email with a client. In terms of checking her email, maybe for security reasons, she can only read her work email at the office? Just a thought. I know some T's in private practice, too, that don't allow emails or texts.

Oh - you are correct. I'm glad you brought that up, because that's exactly correct! I've been so wound up about her being gone, I had totally forgotten. She's not supposed to have contact with clients except when she's at the clinic, and then only through the clinic email. That must be why she's communicating with me through the mental health receptionist. Also, she's HUGE on confidentiality and is concerned that the clinic email is not entirely "secure." I'm not even sure what she means by it not being secure.

Nevertheless, I have emailed her several times during the time she's been out sick.

Thank you, Lonesome. Your post eases my mind some. I am very needy in therapy and had totally spaced out the way the clinic has mental health set up.

Thank you for that fuller explanation.

I know you said you didn't think you would want to work with any of the other therapists in the clinic, but is that based on having actually sat down with them and interviewed them/had a session with them or just a gut feeling. Perhaps since your options are limited you could explore them again as possibilities? Perhaps if you really haven't really sat down with them, you might find them more workable that you thought? Something to explore maybe.

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Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins Thank you for that fuller explanation. I know you said you didn't think you would want to work with any of the other therapists in the clinic, but is that based on having actually sat down with them and interviewed them/had a session with them or just a gut feeling. Perhaps since your options are limited you could explore them again as possibilities? Perhaps if you really haven't really sat down with them, you might find them more workable that you thought? Something to explore maybe.

There are 3 other T's in the clinic besides mine. The one I would consider working with does substance abuse clients only, which doesn't fit my needs. The 2 others are young women. Kind of embarrassing...I saw 1 of them for 2 sessions, but never went back because (although she was very sweet) she was a horrible therapist. I felt sorry for her. I wanted to say...I think you've chosen the wrong career Then my pdoc hooked me up with my T...it's hard for people to get in with her because she's really well-liked.

The other therapist is this super-prissy person, also quite young, and not at all friendly. I kind-of cringe when I've seen her because she reminds me of the kind of person who, if she was an elementary school teacher, she would be the one the kids would hope they didn't get because she has such a dull personality. (I feel sorry for her.)

Mostly, though, it's about age. I'm 57 and doing therapy with someone the age of my kids...I just can't get into it.

So my options really are limited. I feel very cautious about getting into a new therapy situation that ends up being a dead end altogether.

I wish I would be okay with just "normal" therapy. Seeing my T on a schedule, but if she's out I can calmly wait until she returns, no big deal. A situation in which I'm not freaking out all the time over the fear that she'll leave altogether.

But the transference thing is in there and no matter what I do, I can't get rid of it. I suppose it has to do with the childhood trauma I've mentioned in this thread. There was absolutely no one who bothered to protect me. I mean, today CPS would have been involved, but things were very different back then. People didn't get into other people's business and talking about personal stuff outside of home was just not done.

My T...it feels like she really does feel protective of me - except when she's out sick. Then it feels like she just disappears. And it feels like I'm going crazy.

I think my main question is whether to go through August doing what I did in July, which is checking every few days (or waiting to get a call) about my T being in - or not.

OR, do I just skip August and re-start therapy in September?

That's where I feel stuck.

Thank you for clarifying. It makes sense. My t is gone a lot for trips and stuff and she now mostly part timer. I only see her few times a year so it doesn’t matter but when I saw her more frequently it bothered me as she wasn’t there when I needed her. But at least I almost always knew when she will back (except when she had a heart attack).

personally I dislike lack of clarity and I must know what’s going on so I’d need to have better communication and more clarity. But I understand your clinic has rules and regulations

That's a tough decision. I can relate to the feeling of being dangled on a string of uncertainty, never knowing for sure whether she will turn up that week/day or not. Whereas if you start in Sept, you have the certainty - or higher probability at least, that she may be back.

You said you don't really want to explore other Ts, fair enough. If I were in your shoes, despite the uncertainty (which I hate!) and/or subsequent disappointment if she didn't turn up, I would still keep my appointments with her. Though frankly, I think I would have looked for additional support in the interim i.e. while my T was out.

But that's just me. I guess you could weigh both options and/or which is 'worst' - i.e. would you be able to handle making appointments and having her not turn up vs. have to wait until September (with a higher probability she might be in but then again, with a slight possibility she may not)? Do you need the support right now? Would you be able to get support in case something happened / you needed it? IF you don't really need therapy or if the juggling with 'will she be here? will she not?' is too much, then maybe taking a break would indeed be better... or at least offer (some) peace of mind.

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Originally Posted by Rive. That's a tough decision. I can relate to the feeling of being dangled on a string of uncertainty, never knowing for sure whether she will turn up that week/day or not. Whereas if you start in Sept, you have the certainty - or higher probability at least, that she may be back. You said you don't really want to explore other Ts, fair enough. If I were in your shoes, despite the uncertainty (which I hate!) and/or subsequent disappointment if she didn't turn up, I would still keep my appointments with her. Though frankly, I think I would have looked for additional support in the interim i.e. while my T was out. But that's just me. I guess you could weigh both options and/or which is 'worst' - i.e. would you be able to handle making appointments and having her not turn up vs. have to wait until September (with a higher probability she might be in but then again, with a slight possibility she may not)? Do you need the support right now? Would you be able to get support in case something happened / you needed it? IF you don't really need therapy or if the juggling with 'will she be here? will she not?' is too much, then maybe taking a break would indeed be better... or at least offer (some) peace of mind.

Thank you, Rive

After torturing over it for about 48 hours, I'm thinking that canceling August would be more of a way to spite her than to protect myself. I know her, and I truly believe that she has been very unwell or she'd be in her office. Cancelling August would be childish of me...or, I guess, my child-self striking out at her.

So, my plan right now is to keep the August appointments and hope she'll be back during the month. If not, I'll have to live with it and look toward September.

With regard to extra support, I do have my pdoc. I do telehealth with her once per week and she's very helpful with issues I'm having in therapy (meaning when I go whining and complaining to my pdoc about being upset with M., she's supportive and appropriate).

Pdoc works as a therapist with children, so she talks to me like I'm a little kid. It's hilarious. She'll say, "Ohhhh, I knooow how painful it feels when our therapist is not available to us..."
She's as eccentric as heck.

Anyway, I'll see her on Tuesday.

I'm glad it helped. I figured it wasn't something personal, her not replying to your emails, but some sort of policy.

OH! I completely get the age thing. You are my age. Totally get that.

Wish you had better options. It's a tough situation.

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Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins OH! I completely get the age thing. You are my age. Totally get that. Wish you had better options. It's a tough situation.

It is. And the feelings go in waves, like grief (which I suppose grief it is, actually, when a therapist suddenly disappears for quite a while).


The thing is, today I'm thinking...you know...what am I in therapy for? To handle life's curves more effectively. And here it is: a chance to practice what I'm working so hard to learn. It isn't as though she's dumped me, or ghosted me...she's sick. And knowing her, she wants to be 100% when she returns. So I'm trying to be a big girl about this.

(And I'll be sure to come back and re-read my words ^^^ the next time I start freaking out )

Hey, it's hard being a big girl in this big bad world! The little girl wants to be heard too. I say, let her have her 15 minutes or even throw a tantrum, if need be

More seriously, it is a tough situation. I also believe your T wants to come back and wants to be 100%. It's just really unfortunate. I actually admire how well you seem to cope with it. I know I could sure learn from you...