Transference, Countertransference, and CPTSD

I’ve posted enough about the un-repairable rupture with my last T. She terminated me 5 years ago after 6 years of therapy saying that she didn’t “have the emotional resources” to continue.

From a real-world perspective, if she didn’t have the resources, then she didn’t. But from the context of the therapy “relationship”, and the kinds of feelings that arose and that I developed while talking to her – it was devastating.

She didn’t have the “resources”. I’m guessing because of her own countertransference? Something about me was just “too much”.

But her “rejection” and abandonment triggered enormous hatred and vengeful, retaliatory impulses/wishes that had NEVER been in my conscious mind to my memory until then.

At that point, maybe the best way to describe it isn’t as “transference” but a full-fledged trigger and emotional flashback? And that “rupture” put me back into an emotional battlefield like I experienced as a child?

The CPTSD perspective is perhaps helpful for this situation. But what is still missing, from what I can tell, is an understanding of how one develops a sense of self and belonging and relatedness to community once the basic opportunity for that in childhood was lost.

It is NOT something I can do by myself. I don’t think I’m alone in needing something like that in order to be a contributing member of society, which is something I feel I need/want in order to be happy. To be fulfilled as a human being. And the good of society is better served when more people can do this, I think. Not just thrust us dysfunctional ones off to the side.

I’m grateful to this forum for the opportunity to post my views and to read about the experiences of others.

Any thoughts, feelings, or experiences anybody else would like to post along similar lines?

5 years has past and look how still emotionally charged this is for you. The hurt is so great. How am I ever to get over my issues over my x-T? It makes me so angry this happens to us from therapy. I do not know the solution and all my research, reading about it, knowing and understanding does not make it any better.

Yes I too am grateful for this forum as it shows me I am not CRAZY and what I am going through and feeling is actually a thing. You know misery loves company.

I am in such a similar place right now, at least as far as filling those needs... HOW? How do you even try when you never even got a chance to know what it should look like??? I am thankful that my T has not bailed on me like the previous 10 and he is trying to sludge through this with me. T even lamented about how impersonal the construct of therapy is/has become. His state,ents, which were offered more out into space rather than at me seemed to suggest that he too is struggling to figure out how the h you do this. He shares a LOT about his life and family because it is ALL new and strong to me... and he is discovering that as alien as all of this is his sharing is what is creating awareness... a current move towards healing but it isn’t enough to get me to a place of understanding, feeling, experiencing it... how do you get a client “there” without violating boundaries????
Last week T shared about helping his adult daughter and her family (husband and small child) move... and he could see the total WTF on my face. “But, she has a husband?!?!” And then he looked just as confused. I moved into and out of college on busses and the occasional ride with a friend going in that direction. I moved to grad school, across the country, in a borrowed car... no one in my family has EVER been in “my” home... a place I lived that was not theirs... how the h do I understand him driving 4 hours each way over his weekend to help her move???? Like, you were actually AT her house???
Yeh... how do you “learn” these things in a sterile “relationship”.

I learn how to relate differently by trying to do things differently in my relationships. It's slow, painful, risky and I often make a mess of it. Therapy will give me the seed of something - learning how to accept help, for example - but I am aware of the limits of the relationship. If I didn't have other relationships outside of therapy, I wouldn't know how to try and learn how to experience the things which I missed (or which were taken from me) in my childhood.

Makes sense.

What happened to me was, I went to therapy years ago to try to learn what the source of my difficulties was, I didn't have any/many relationships besides family. I felt socially anxious, messed up and inadequate, probably experienced rejection/disapproval sometimes which I didn't recognize or process as such or know what to do with when it happened -- except numb/ignore but then I felt generally anxious, messed up, etc.

So, I also thought, and was told by the media at the time and the therapists themselves, that therapy would be "safe" relationships, even though many of them weren't. But I continued on with that ideal(fantasy?) despite the contrary indications because, well, of the conditions that I went into therapy with, some of which I listed above.

So, now I'm 73. My kids are grown, still talk to me fortunately (my daughter didn't for 5 years but that's been different for about 3 years). But they are in their 40s, have their own lives, I don't have a lot to contribute to that despite my best efforts. So, I think my best effort now, and the best thing I can do for me AND them, is to try to live my own life -- but, again, there isn't much life from the past and not a whole lot of opportunity that I am able to see right now.

Nevertheless, I detached and left my old life such as it was behind and moved across the country last year. My son and daughter-in-law said that they wanted me here -- they have no other family close -- and my daughter did NOT want me close. And where she lives she has a lot of her husband's family. Because of my lack of much social experience and making new friends I moved just before the coronavirus shutdown into a senior apartment complex. It's independent apartments but they have planned activities, so good opportunities to interact with other people in low-key situations. They were shut down for awhile but are now back up somewhat. So I participate and have some hope of learning new things.

It's hard, with so much grief, for so many things -- of course, my age and just losses generally contributes to that.

But I do think that some better approaches within the "helping professions" are needed if there are still any people coming to therapy with situations like mine was. I feel like lots of my life was "wasted" despite my best efforts. And if the "helping professions" are going to really help, both the people who come to them and the society and community generally, then cases like mine, which have been dismissed and overlooked, need to be looked at more closely. And some different and hopefully better approaches to "helping" need to be developed.

My ex-T didn't outright say she didn't have the emotional resources to cope with me, but that was pretty much the picture I got from the things she did say. We terminated ... nearly a year ago, but then made an attempt to look back and put together some sort of a narrative of what happened. That ended with failure ... I think it was the end of February ... and now am working with another therapist since April, ex-T-stuff getting significant focus, still very painful.

I guess now would be a good time to start using the forums to help figure it out, but trying to think about this tends to put me into this wounded-child mode which is very impractical when trying to get stuff done. Will have a session tomorrow, so I'll ask new T to maybe shift the main focus to this, and see where that gets me.

This is such a powerful thread it has me in tears.

I'm not even sure where to begin. I guess I'll just jump in and allow myself to sound disorganized and absolutely stupid, if need be.

Omers, you made me think about...
Family.

Up until about 5 years ago I was right there, sleeves rolled up and ready to work, for my family and extended family. I've always been reliable and responsible. As for them bothering to assist me...HA. My husband and I always pulled the entire load ourselves, and we've done so for almost 40 years. It's no wonder our marriage became shaky after some years. We were always under so much stress to carry all the weight. Now he and I no longer live under the same roof, but we are the dearest of friends. We're all we have in the world.

Eventually, it occurred to me that I was doing all the giving in my family and getting nothing in return. So I stopped doing the giving. Which is sad.

At this point, most of my family is dead (I was my parents' mid-life baby, so I was born into an "older" family). With the ones that are left, I might as well whistle Dixie. In May I had surgery on my achilles tendon. The recovery from that surgery is expected to be very slow. I really need someone to lend a hand, at least now and then. Just washing my cats' bowls one day would give me a huge break and save me some painful steps. Bringing me some dinner to freeze would make my life right now so much easier. Changing my sheets! OMG, that would be a life-saver.

My husband and I live 1 mile apart. He's 73 (much older than I am). While I'm recovering he does my grocery shopping and once per week, washes my laundry. He takes my garbage out a few times a week. I am so grateful, I don't even know...what would I do, were he not around? I have absolutely no idea. But that's it. He won't lift a finger to wash dishes, or sweep a floor.

My dear daughter, whom I have cherished from the moment she was born, who I have been there for through every tiny step of her life, being the best and most supportive, loving mom any mom could be, decided that when I had a break-down and went IP for one night 21 months ago, that she "couldn't handle the drama." She has not communicated with me since. She tells my husband that she "misses me." But never a call, nothing.

A few days ago, I learned from my sister that my daughter has just graduated from a prestigious university suma cum laude. I'm so proud of her, but am not permitted to share in any of the joy with her. It kills me.

My son is a golden-hearted man. He's a good soul, and he's very successful. He and his wife are spending a month working away from home (they live in San Francisco) at a home they've rented for the month. It's in a quaint little town in the mountains here.

But he doesn't get it! I really need some assistance right now. something. Anything. If he cannot spare the time, for pete's sake, send me 100$ so I can pay someone to come in and clean my apartment, so I don't have to risk the outcome of my surgery doing it myself. I know if I asked him, he'd gladly do it - but darned if I'll ask. To him, "Mom" is still a young, energetic woman who can handle it all.

My husband and I raised our kids well, as far as them becoming successful, "productive" members of society. But is it possible to love kids too much? Did I over-compensate because of the way I grew up? It tears me up.

As for my sister...pfffft. She wouldn't lift a finger to help me out. Period. She's simply not an extending person. I've lived in my apartment for 5 years, 20 miles from her. She has never once been here.

My therapist also (not infrequently) mentions that her family comes to help her with this or that. They pitch in, together. I think What's it like to have a charmed life?

I'm sorry, I've really gone off about my family. I'm just feeling so alone. It scares me for what's in my future.

Yes, wounded-child mode sucks. I don't think I knew I even had it until there, wounded by the ex-T, it was! Blew up my whole world! I'd probably had a victim mentality sometimes but that is nowhere near the same.

So don't be sorry. My situation is different, but I sure get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by here today I’ve posted enough about the un-repairable rupture with my last T. She terminated me 5 years ago after 6 years of therapy saying that she didn’t “have the emotional resources” to continue. From a real-world perspective, if she didn’t have the resources, then she didn’t. But from the context of the therapy “relationship”, and the kinds of feelings that arose and that I developed while talking to her – it was devastating. She didn’t have the “resources”. I’m guessing because of her own countertransference? Something about me was just “too much”. But her “rejection” and abandonment triggered enormous hatred and vengeful, retaliatory impulses/wishes that had NEVER been in my conscious mind to my memory until then. At that point, maybe the best way to describe it isn’t as “transference” but a full-fledged trigger and emotional flashback? And that “rupture” put me back into an emotional battlefield like I experienced as a child? The CPTSD perspective is perhaps helpful for this situation. But what is still missing, from what I can tell, is an understanding of how one develops a sense of self and belonging and relatedness to community once the basic opportunity for that in childhood was lost. It is NOT something I can do by myself. I don’t think I’m alone in needing something like that in order to be a contributing member of society, which is something I feel I need/want in order to be happy. To be fulfilled as a human being. And the good of society is better served when more people can do this, I think. Not just thrust us dysfunctional ones off to the side. I’m grateful to this forum for the opportunity to post my views and to read about the experiences of others. Any thoughts, feelings, or experiences anybody else would like to post along similar lines?

"Didn't have the emotional resources"...wow. Sooo...what's she doing being a therapist? Because I thought being a therapist was all about emotional resources

Countertransference? Or just plain too lazy to work that hard?

I am so sorry that happened to you. Yet another rotten therapist that destroys yet another trusting client.

You said But what is still missing, from what I can tell, is an understanding of how one develops a sense of self and belonging and relatedness to community once the basic opportunity for that in childhood was lost.

Do you mean a sense of belonging to your own community where you live? As opposed to being in isolation?

For me, I went to NAMI groups for years (I have bipolar disorder, but most people I've met who have a mental illness also have had childhood trauma). I got involved with NAMI and eventually became a Connection group facilitator. I felt very much a part of a community of peers who understood without me having to explain. Or worse, trying not to let them find out the truth.

I've found that support groups are amazingly helpful, because the imbalance of power is not there as it is with a therapist.

But now with covid, the connections are either on hold or lost. Especially during this very stressful and scary time, the community here is pure gold.

As for psychotherapy, all I have to do is look around on this board to know that something is very wrong with the current paradigm of therapy.

I wonder if therapy is due for a sea-change? Too many already damaged people are severely damaged by inadequate therapists. The power balance is messy and awkward, at best - devastating, at worst.

Should there be a way to hold T's more accountable? If so, how?

Are there too many T's who only want to work with easy cases, not the clients with strong transference, for example?

Or, conversely, T's who are intrigued by a challenging, interesting case and end up getting in way over their head, beyond what they can handle, then the client is thrown away like a hot potato?

I just mentioned this to my Betterhelp T about my recent x-T. He stopped taking insurance and started charging $200 a session, hired a professional photographer to take amazing profession pictures, hired a business coach, hired someone to redo his website and started advertising to the rich area. He touts only have a small case load and he helps people tame their anxiety, boot their depression, ditch their addiction, and overcome their trauma through EMDR. I believe he tried to ditch me because I used up to much of his emotional energy and I was not an easy case. I see a lot of young therapist now on psychology today saying their speciality is in anxiety and depression. The run of the mill issues you see in this stressful society.

Why work hard if you do not have to? I do not blame them but you cant find therapist who thrive from taking on the challenge of a hard case anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie I just mentioned this to my Betterhelp T about my recent x-T. He stopped taking insurance and started charging $200 a session, hired a professional photographer to take amazing profession pictures, hired a business coach, hired someone to redo his website and started advertising to the rich area. He touts only have a small case load and he helps people tame their anxiety, boot their depression, ditch their addiction, and overcome their trauma through EMDR. I believe he tried to ditch me because I used up to much of his emotional energy and I was not an easy case. I see a lot of young therapist now on psychology today saying their speciality is in anxiety and depression. The run of the mill issues you see in this stressful society. Why work hard if you do not have to? I do not blame them but you cant find therapist who thrive from taking on the challenge of a hard case anymore.

I just posted about the "reality of money" on another thread here.

More and more I'm believing that rare is the therapist who is truly devoted to humanity and willing to work hard for a higher-needs client. I wonder how many people become T's because they can have it their way, for the most part? Work with who they want to, when they want to, and how they want to.

Your ex-T sounds like a real (excuse me) d i c k. Seems he wanted to restructure his business and you didn't fit the new, shiny model. So you got dumped.

I wish him nothing but clients with narcissistic personality disorder for the rest of his career......

It took me 18 years to finally have a therapist to understand me. I have been with therapist give up on me because I can't get past my childhood abuse, some major loses in my life, ect. The therapist I see now is caring and is helping me put my life back together, it's been slow but i know she is wanting to help me and not give up on me. I have PTSD and that was very ingored by everyone til last year. Thank you so much for starting this thread. Hugs

I came across this article this morning, about Internal Family Systems as a different paradigm.

https://elemental.medium.com/inside-...r-8be035d54770

and posted the link on the Interesting Psychotherapy Articles. But it seems relevant to Beth's comment above, too.

My last therapist was a trauma specialist, diagnosed me with what was then DDNOS and would now probably be OSDD. Talk therapy with her dealt with "parts", too.. But then, as I have said, she couldn't tolerate one or more of my "parts". WHAT THE H. . .???

Another interesting quote from the article

I didn't get into increasing medication but I did go into a downward spiral. Where I'm still stuck! I have been finding some relief with meditation in the last few years, so I found this very interesting as well:

Hmm. . .

I couldn't find any empirical studies of IFS in a brief search on the web. That's probably something that will be needed if there really is to be a paradigm shift. Even though, of course, empirical facts aren't the main thing that make a paradigm shift.

My original therapist did IFS with me for 2 years. This recent x-Therapist did lots of parts work and also was hinting at me have OSDD. When I was in self or in flow I felt great like I never had any mental health issues. The problem was I can not stay in self for very long and the other parts take back over. Mainly child parts that hold the trauma. Anyway. Not sure how this all gets "fixed"

Thanks, Moxie. Great perspective. Good to know that when you were in self or flow that you felt great, but that it didn't stay.

I feel currently, and have for months, like a wounded, burned, powerless, unwanted child. Maybe that's not entirely accurate in the real world right now, but it seems close enough.

I feel I am more read and research so much more than my therapists do to understand why I feel and act the way I do. At this point there is nothing a therapist can tell me I do not know already about my issues.