Scared of scaring off new T

I had a therapy that went wrong. Long story, that I can't seem to get around sharing, but wrong enough that I felt I needed help with the aftermath. So, I found a new T. I tried a few, she would've been my first choice for a number of other reasons as well, but she was also the only one who got that this thing with ex-T is important. So it's really promising, so far.

Now we're at a point where I shared some of the specific situations that were particularly distressing, and that's nice, to be able to talk about it at all. But. The more I talk about that stuff the more likely it is that she decides that I whined enough about xT, or she glimpses the same horrible wrongness I xT did (at least, that's what I fear has happened, however irrational it might be), and reject me.

NewT hasn't said or done anything to that effect yet. But I'm ridiculously scared. I fear it's only a matter of time. My anxiety is out of hand. Wanted to get an email out to her before tomorrow's session, but seeing how I spent this whole week trying to achieve that,and I still haven't written a word (and it's past my bedtime), it will likely not happen at this point.

I mean, part of me says that if she's going to have a problem with my ****, it's better to find out sooner than later. But I really don't want it to happen before I get the xT stuff into a manageable shape at least

Hopefully, this is mostly the expectation set by the previous therapy, and the fact that talking about, or even remembering these situations tends to drag me back into that emotional state, which is then very hard to get out of. I do recall this fear from some of the conflicts with xT, very bizarre, like my existence is threatened somehow.

Can you tell her you feel this way? I know the feeling of being too much, or not enough, or that the T won’t want to see me anymore because of it. It’s your time in session, you could whine about the weather for a whole hour if you wanted to and they should sit there and listen and help you with it...because it’s what they signed up for when they became Ts.

Ha-ha, tell that to xT! Yeah, planning to tell her. Alas, very bad at expressing myself or thinking straight when I'm this anxious. Might have to write an outline to myself, if not in email.

Same, I just about manage to get out the odd word when I’m trying to say something important to T! Glad you will tell her, maybe it will ease some of the stress if she reacts well. Fingers crossed for you.

What I found, with my bad ex-T experience, was that it triggered a very deep, hidden, apparently dissociated section of feelings that I had from my family of origin. It took 6 months of feeling horrible, plus being abandoned by the ex-T and not trusting any others, for the feelings from my family to be "released". So I could have said the experience with the T "released" the old feelings, but it was far from that easy and it was also intolerable and dysfunctional-making. 5 years later and I'm still dealing with it, and the original stuff, without any help and not very successfully.

So, I wonder -- is there anything that could be like that for you? Any trauma or family dysfunction at all, that perhaps you don't/can't really feel or know? If so -- getting that stuff "released" without all the re-traumatization (again) might relieve some of what you are trying to do now with new T?

Or, is there a way to talk around the subject of bad/harmful T's so that you could lay some ground work and/or get some clues about new T's feelings about things like that?

I know, for me, I still don't trust any of those people. But, given that you've started with this new T, I hope things work out for you. It doesn't seem like it ought to be THAT hard for them to catch on -- except there may still be a lot of them with the same kind of unresolved trauma, and how to tell? Please keep us posted.

It's a common fear we have that Ts will be fed up with us going on and on about something. A good T will stay with you, however many times you need to rehash the same old topic.

Take a risk and tell her your fears. Her reaction will go a long way in providing reassurance.

I think that while you did have a bad experience with a T before, I feel like telling this T about your concerns is really important. I understand that it's hard for you to share this, most likely, but I feel like you'd be remiss not to mention this to the new T because the T is a professional. If the T is not receptive to your concerns and doesn't give a satisfying or helpful response, then maybe that's not the right T. You know? Ts work for us, but a lot of people (including me) are hesistant to share their innermost fears and concerns with the T. But honestly, in my experience, I've made the most progress in therapy when I do share the deepest stuff with my therapist. Anyway, I hope you'll find the right path.

Thanks for the responses and encouragement!

The good news is, we talked about where this anxiety/fear might come from, how paralysing it is, and what might help to keep it from interfering with my everyday life (not much success on the latter, though). The bad news is, we focused on this general fear of 'badness', and childhood memories, not on her stance on the specific issues that I'm afraid of discussing, so now I'm starting to worry that this means she prefers to avoid those issues. Funnily enough, even when she asked what might help to make it safer between the two of us, it didn't occur to me to bring this up, so I guess if anyone was avoiding discussing those issues then it was me, and this worry is a 'transference' from ex-T. Will have to email her about it, though.

So far she seems good with the xT stuff. She confirmed some of my suspicions / validated some of my feelings on the stuff I shared, but she can also can provide therapist perspective on some of the difficulties xT might have had, all without 'taking sides'. The main issue is my feeling stupid for being so hung up on xT in the first place, because who's this woman to have this sort of effect on me, and also xT acting like I should just 'get over' this stuff, because transference blah-blah. This new T seems to grasp that it's possible to have transference but also have a legitimate issue in the here-and-now at the same time, and also that emotions generated by a transference won't miraculously disappear just because I'm reminded that it's transference..

Re: possibly dissociated feelings - I'll get back to this later.

I wonder if it isn't good ol' shame at the bottom of this fear. Grown big and fat, so it kinda lost its shape and much of it is out of sight. But, this feeling of wrongness/badness? It's pretty much what shame is all about. And, what pointed me in this direction, after Monday's session I remembered that 'you should be ashamed of yourself', 'who do you think you are' were standard parts of the repertoire when my mother was angry. So it all kind of fits, I think, though it's a huge mess in my head right now. Will probably write more in the process of trying to clear it up.

How is your BetterHelp T working out, by the way?

Yes, it does seem like shame may well be that feeling, and grown big and fat and shapeless. And then made unconscious, by dissociation or other means?

Writing about this stuff helps me, too. Plus I find it interesting and helpful to read other people's perspectives on things that are similar to what I struggle with.

The BetterHelp T is kind, but the deeper stuff came bubbling up some anyway. I told her a little about the last T and asked her to let me know if I was too much for her. And that if I was I would try to find somebody else on that platform. So at least that possibility is out in the open for discussion.

Sorry, meant to respond to this, but anxiety levels got to the physically painful territory if I tried too hard to deal with this stuff. In particular, any attempts to communicate about it. I guess that kind of makes sense in relation to shame, but I really need to find a way around it somehow.

Anyhow, Monday's session brought some reassurance - I think managed to bring up everything that I was going to email about, and got satisfactory answers, so it worked out as well as I could reasonably expect.

I told T that I think it's shame, but didn't feel safe delving into it + wanted to focus on the other stuff first. I also asked her about the issues that proved problematic before (suicidal ideation, and my very strong 'resistance', as ex-T called it), and ... well, the very fact that we had an actual discussion is promising, her approach is promising, so it's reassuring altogether. I still feel like I'm climbing on rocks with patches of ice, a little bit further from the edge of the precipice than before, but scared that I might slip, and it'll be a huge fall when I do. IF, I should say IF.

Also told her that top priority for me is to get the xT stuff out of the way. I mean, get to a point where either I can think back to safely, without getting stuck with these hurt-and-angry-child feelings for days and weeks, or I don't need to think about her anymore ... the first one probably being easier. There's a lot of useful material that almost-surfaced during the xT debacle, like this shame thing, so I kind of want to think about those, rather than attempt to re-bury it all only for it to cause trouble again.

Re: BetterHelp T - I take that her reaction was non-hurtful, then? Yeah, I imagine it might be a bit of a relief to have it out in the open, even if you end up not discussing it. Did the deeper stuff come up in reaction to something she did or said? Or could it be because she's kind and the angry part is feeling safe enough to want to come out? At least, that's a thing for me, I think it kind of was with xT, I kind of started believing that she so kind and accepting that she might even accept me ... but then she didn't. That's not saying it's the same for you or that your T will do the same, though! I hope it continues to go well.

Which reminds me, one thing I forgot was to explicitly ask T to let me know if I'm starting to be too much, should do that next Monday, or in email if I manage to write one this time.

I’m very glad and to read this post, and find it interesting and am glad you wrote it, but just to make clear – you owe me nothing. So if in any sense you were meaning this as an apology, please don’t worry about that – if you can. If you are sorry yourself that your anxiety levels didn’t permit you to deal with a response for awhile – I’m very glad if/that they are better!

Sounds like good news!

Yes, I experienced huge falls, down cold abysses, and ice shards or rocks can cut one to pieces – or maybe that’s what already happened to me when I was little? My last T did say when I first started seeing her that I was “wounded and fragmented”. Still, the reenactment – well, . . .So, to me, being careful sounds very much like taking good care of yourself.

So far, so good but you make a very, very good point. I hadn’t consciously thought about that, but it definitely rings a bell and a good warning. Thanks.

Please let us know how it goes, if you feel like it. I hope things go well for you, too.

Thanks! It's not so much that I think I owe you (though part of me might believe that), but - I'd like to ... just ... be able to have a conversation, without struggling for words, going down all sorts of rabbit holes and end up losing track of what I was going to write in the first place. And I guess I feel insufficient for not managing that.

Although now I kind of gave up and trying the opposite approach - spend as little time and energy on this outside therapy sessions as possible. This whole ex-T debacle derailed my life long enough as it is. It still bugs me a lot, but it seems that talking about it in sessions helps some, so maybe eventually I'll get to a point when it stops being so overwhelming? Meanwhile, I have several things I've fallen behind with, so I'm focusing on those.

What I notice when it comes to emailing (or rather, failing to) T is that after a session, I feel reassured/relieved. Yay, T didn't reject me for the stuff I said, so maybe it really is OK to talk about these things. I go over what was said or not said, or felt confusing or off somehow, and I'm like 'ok, I'll write these down in an email and have it out of my mind for the rest of the week'. But then it doesn't happen - I very soon start having second thoughts, feeling stupid, feeling like my problems are stupid, feeling like ex-T made me feel, like I don't really have any problems at all and am just somehow too stupid? stubborn? to see that, and I'm just being a pest, etc. This in addition to the other rabbit holes. And if I keep trying to email her the whole week, then it'll feel like this the whole week. So I stopped trying. I hope that if she's non-rejecting me long enough, I'll be able to keep that frame of mind for longer after sessions?

Migth be a good idea to mention this to her.

One interesting thing she brought up - she was wondering if I have other goals beyond sorting out the xT issue, because, if that's what keeps me going then it might be very difficult indeed to give it up. First I didn't think this applied to me, then I noticed that I'm kind of glad that this huge painful attachment thing is directed outside my current therapy, and I fear that instead of getting rid of it altogether, I might just transfer it inside.

But also: goals I have, sort of BUT ... and I couldn't and still can't express it well ... but it all somehow hangs on her. Like the One Ring, lol. Hangs not so much on her, but on whatever I was hoping to get from her. Will keep going back to this until it starts making sense.

I seem to recall from another thread that you're trying a 2nd T? How is that working out?

I'm currently seeing 2 T's, at least briefly. With the more experienced one, I discussed some stuff from the ex-T, and the consultant who referred me to her and whom I saw for 6 months when the ex-T was on maternity leave. Also mentioned a trauma that surfaced when I was seeing the consultant and never fully explored with either -- it relates to some fear that I now wonder if it transferred all these years to any females who are in a position to dominate me (including T's) -- like the woman in the operating room who held me down to put an anesthesia mask over my face when I was 3! I'm feeling like it may pull some things together.

How does that relate to shame -- maybe I learned to shame my reactive PTSD-y fear and rage responses? ANY fear and rage responses would have been disapproved of, but mine may not have been just "in the moment" ones and so things may have gotten compounded on top of compounding, etc., I'm wondering. But I just had the session last Thursday.

What I have done with both these T's is say that what I want is feedback about how I come across. NOT standard therapy. So if I'm objectionable in any way, like I still feel like I was or must have been for the ex-T, then that's what I'm there to find out. The Betterhelp T had some difficulty with that at first. The more experienced T seemed to get it, though she has fallen back into T-mode a couple of times, once of which I mentioned to her and she agreed. Now, though, it seems like that probably has helped because neither of them are in the position of "expert".

That sounds promising.

More later. (Might be a LOT later)

Actually, no, better write some things down while it's fresh. The 'being dominated' part - that was my feeling with my mother when there was a conflict. That I can never win and am completely powerless no matter how hard I try to fight. Although for me it was a recurring thing over a long period of time, rather than a one-time extreme (I imagine) trauma.

Shame - for me, a lot of it comes from my mother, in various ways. Partly by actual shaming, but also by example of the way she often talks about herself, and this is where I stop off and come back to it later. I think what I got is more a propensity to shame, a lack of self-worth (or a compulsive denial of my own self-worth?), the general idea that some people are so bad that they're not really people at all and in fact shouldn't even exist in the first place., and deep-rooted fear that I'm one of those people.

ETA: actually, constantly ending up on the losing side of every conflict, and any sort of abuse, also tends to generate shame. Especially if you continue to depend on the person, like a child would.

There's a religious aspect I think - my maternal grandfather was a pastor, and although my mother ended up fiercely anti-religious, and I'm not religious either, but some seeds were planted for sure. Like her seeing every failure and mistake as a moral failing and a reflection on her character, which is something that I also do in a slightly different form.