[graystreet]

Okay, so I have to say that, first off, my heart is feeling pretty raw right now so, though I want you all to be open with me, if I could ask for responses to be gentle, please. I already know that I was pretty naive about this whole situation. I guess that's just me. I'm sorry this is so long.

So I'd been friends with this guy for 13 years, meeting him online through Flickr. This past November, we decided to start a long distance relationship. I live in Michigan, he lives in Tennessee. This wasn't our first time talking about possibly starting a relationship; we also did so in 2016, but ended up not doing so for reasons.

Anyway, my one issue with him is that I've always been afraid he was flirting with other women online. He was never a player, per se, but I mean, he got my attention online by chatting me up, and I know that he is just friendly and has no shortage of female admirers. I said that my one request was, if there were someone he was starting to talk to locally, he tell me so I could make the decision whether or not I wanted to continue the relationship. He said he understood, and that was fair with him.

So we talked pretty much all day every day except when he was out with his friend group on weekends (playing board games, DnD), he came to Michigan on business in early January and we saw each other. I made plans to visit him, and I just spent from this past Wednesday until Monday in Tennessee with him. And we ended up ending things pretty badly.

We'd been fighting more often up to my coming down, and we'd been saying some pretty hurtful things to one another. My feelings were beginning to wan before I went down as a couple of very specific things had begun to take their toll and, a few days beforehand, I told him I wasn't sure I wanted to go, and why. He said he understood, and to make the decision I needed to. But he said he was very excited to see me, kept saying it, so I went.

We had been making plans for me to take a travel assignment near him in East Tennessee--not me move down there, but just for me to take an assignment for a few months so we could date like normal people. I even got an IUD because we would be seeing each other pretty regularly (we planned every 5-6 weeks) until I came down there. He indicated no protest, only encouragement at all of this--I asked him several times if he felt things were moving too quickly, or if it was pushing. He said, very plainly, he wanted me to be able to be nearer.

I got to TN on Wednesday, and I felt nothing. Our chemistry had just died. Long story short, it was a rough weekend of me not really wanting to be there, but not really wanting or knowing how to let go, us fighting bitterly while also having some really sweet moments, him continually asking me to stay, and me staying until it finally culminated in an explosive fight in downtown Knoxville. That night is a whole post in itself, but I saw in that night a man I don't know. Sunday and Monday were two of the worst days I've had in, probably, years.

Through all of this, all this time, I've never been able to shake that insecurity that there was someone else. It was huge and nagging and fierce. I just couldn't let it go. And I went looking for trouble. And I asked him repeatedly, because he tends to be a little closed off in some aspects of his life, and when he said, "No, there isn't anyone else. I'm not talking to or involved with anyone," the first time, I just couldn't believe him. And yeah. If you can call following the FB rabbit trail stalking, I was stalking. And today, I found a woman. And I just knew. And so I messaged her thinking well, if I'm crazy then I'm crazy and I'll never be in TN again anyway.

But I was right. She thanked me for telling her, said I should know that he asked her to spend the night last weekend (days before I arrived), and that they had also hooked up a few weeks prior to that. Then, when I asked if I could talk to her, she blocked me. They are still FB friends. I'm sure he told her I'm just a crazy chick. When I thought about the timeline, I realized that other time was a night when he failed to check in and say goodnight (which we did every night), and I fell asleep kind of crying, because I realized that, if something happened to him, how would I know all the way in Michigan? I told him that the next morning, he apologized profusely, said he was drinking with friends at his board game group, and that time had just gotten away from him. But he was hooking up.

Friends, I don't have a question. I just feel so stupid. I put him on blast tonight and found any and every way I could to contact him to ask him why. I don't even know that I was angry or sad. I feel a sense of calm vindication to finally know the truth. He kept blocking me until I finally said I will find a way to keep asking until you tell me. I don't want to talk, I just want to know. And he said, "Because you were and are a crazy stalker. I have texts. I have recordings. If you reach out further, I'll make this legal." I said go ahead--I'm telling you I'll leave you alone. But this is beyond a feelings issue; this is a health issue. You ****ed me with no condom days after you ****ed her. And the only reason I did that is because you told me I was the only one. He threatens me with legality because he thinks it scares me, because he thinks I'll lose my job if I have any legal action against me. I will not; it is a domestic dispute anyway, and I live 10 hours away. And I'm saying I will leave him alone if he gives me health information as, in the end, I told him all I wanted to know is if either of them have been tested. So yeah, go ahead. Threaten me. *eye roll* All of the texts he has show him being a massive jerk himself. *second eye roll*

I don't understand. There was just no reason to lie. Not only did I give him several outs, but I also told him after one particular fight (the night of which, I now know, he slept with her), that, after what he said, I wasn't sure I wanted to continue. I told him the day before I came, I wasn't sure I wanted to come. He just repeatedly told me how much he wanted me. I live 10 hours away...why? This makes no sense. And I know, I know. I know people do this crap all the time. But I just believed in him for so long, rallied in his corner...Now I wonder if all of the things he told me, all of the things I was rallying for were true. Did that ex really cheat on you? Or did you cheat on her? God only knows what was true out of his mouth. Some part of me sort of understands why he kept me, and it is sort of complimentary in a really effed up way (don't mistake me, it doesn't make me feel good). But at the same time, I made plans around this. I would have picked up my job to come down there.

The worst part is that I can see where he was emotionally abusing me. He says I was abusive. He used my BPD against me, I can see that now. I told him about it early on (he is also bipolar) and we talked about some of our boundaries. But the way he fought with me fed into the BPD symptoms, made them worse. And so I'd act out. And he'd tell me that the reason he treated me a certain way is because I was acting crazy, that I used my BPD as an excuse. The funny thing is that I felt more healthy going into this than ever in my life. I lost so much of myself through it, though. And yes, I degraded into my crazy self in the end. So, though he's extremely private and would likely never show her our correspondences, I'm sure he spun some tale about me to this other woman. I'm sure he told her I was abusive. He sure still talks about his emotionally abusive ex-wife, and they've been divorced for probably 13 years.

Anyway. Thank you for letting me tell this. Sorry so long. I just needed to get it out. I'm okay that it ended. I'm not really okay with how he treated me, or that I'd built some dreams around this guy I really cared about and he turned out to be someone I don't even recognize. Truly, I don't know this man. And I'm not really sure how to trust someone else, when I went into this with massive trust issues in the first place. He knew this. He knew this. And the worst part is I gave him the benefit of the doubt through everything, right up until about 909pm, when she messaged me.

[seesaw]

I don't have any words of wisdom. It sounds like you were cautious going into this...spending so long getting to know him as a friend and all. I don't think this was an issue of the long distance, as a person IRL could do just as much to you. It just sounds like he played you. And that he was very good at it.

I wouldn't worry about legal action. You two were in a a relationship, and he clearly was communicating with you freely up until you caught him. He can't just start claiming stalker because he got caught cheating and you confronted him.

I honestly didn't see any of the BPD in your story other than you mentioning you have BPD. I don't think this was an issue of your symptoms getting the better of you. I think any person would have reacted the way you did, wanting to know the truth.

Sorry everything turned out this way.

Seesaw

[graystreet]

Well. I haven't said everything, because that was becoming a novel up there.

Our fights could be pretty brutal. The way he fought was to drop the conversation and ignore me just as I was starting to get emotional (remember, this is all over text). And then, of course, as someone with BPD I'd freak out and start to text/communication bomb. And it would basically last for hours. I knew that it was just making me look crazy, but it was really hard for me not to react in that way. I would initially start calmly, requesting communication, and then end up completely out of my mind. His excuses for why he didn't respond were variations on a theme: He doesn't respond to hostility, he doesn't validate bad behavior, he felt I was escalating, and felt that responding would just encourage it. One time, I was just in a spiral, no real fight had occurred, and was actually behaving kind of badly, but apologized, told him that I was doing badly, and really needed someone to talk to on the phone that night. He said no, you've lost your privilege to talk on the phone tonight. It sent me spiraling even harder.

Each time we talked more calmly, I explained how much his lack of communication in those times hurt. I told him that communication would help to de-escalate, that sometimes I was missing information about a situation and I couldn't make the best decision on how to react if I didn't have all of the tools available. He told me that he was trying to protect himself, because my behavior just reminded him of his abusive marriage. I said well...but you go way beyond the point of protection. You go past the point where I'm saying "I'm sorry I said something out of anger. Please stop. You're hurting me." You just keep going, and I don't have the ability to fight you.

When I went to see him this past week, we had some pretty volatile arguments. In one instance, he was yelling at me and I pushed him away, but my hands made a slapping sound on his chest. He came at me, screaming in my face that I'd struck him, and I was an abusive piece of ****. I crumpled on the couch, crying, apologizing. He said, "No, you're done, you struck me." I said I'm sorry if I hit you. I didn't mean to, you were in my face. He laughed and showed me that he'd recorded what I said with his phone, and told me he was going to go to the police with it. I was already hysterical, and I pleaded with him not to, because I thought I'd lose my job. We went around in circles with me just getting more hysterical until we ended up on his bed with him trying to hold me, and if I didn't, then I had to leave and to tell him I wanted to stay and be with him or get the **** out.

On Sunday, when we had our extreme blow up, I texted that I wanted to key his car. And then he told me he was going to file a police report. I said, you know I'd never key your car, that we were both incredibly angry at each other, and that this fight is a break up fight. And not on Sunday you're not filing a report. In reality...in a calmer state of mind, I don't think he really has much.

I realize even as I write these things that he was extremely abusive, even as he called me an abusive pos. I think that I stuck around because I felt that I was doing things wrong, and that we were mutually trying to work on our communication. And, honestly, I didn't know things were SO bad until just this past week though my intuition had been saying get the heck out. I even signed up for a travel position about 5 weeks ago, and that night, broke my foot just doing stuff at home and am now off for 10 weeks (so, no working). I joked to my friend that it was a sign. Oddly enough, I felt in my gut that it was.

I can't believe I let this happen.

I think he may have narcissistic personality disorder. And now I wonder what was truth and what was a total lie in what he told me over all these years.

[graystreet]

Ugh. I thought that I needed to know that truth. But it's like a slow bomb going off, and I just feel worse and worse. I mean, the tight, anxious, insistent feeling I've basically been feeling for weeks (my intuition poking at me going, "Hey, girl, listen to me!!!") is totally gone now, but it's replaced with this sort of disoriented feeling like I'm waking from a coma. Everything I thought I knew for the last two years about this person, and had expected to happen with him for well, many years I'd hoped, was a total lie. I don't know why he couldn't have just told me. What is the purpose of playing someone who lives 10 hours away from you? It's not for the sex; we weren't having it enough.

[lady411]

Originally Posted by graystreet

Ugh. I thought that I needed to know that truth. But it's like a slow bomb going off, and I just feel worse and worse. I mean, the tight, anxious, insistent feeling I've basically been feeling for weeks (my intuition poking at me going, "Hey, girl, listen to me!!!") is totally gone now, but it's replaced with this sort of disoriented feeling like I'm waking from a coma. Everything I thought I knew for the last two years about this person, and had expected to happen with him for well, many years I'd hoped, was a total lie. I don't know why he couldn't have just told me. What is the purpose of playing someone who lives 10 hours away from you? It's not for the sex; we weren't having it enough.

Sounds like he enjoyed playing with your mind all these years with his lies & schemes for the same reason that you were 10 hrs away. Trust your instincts in the future. Be thankful that a venomous being like that is out of your life.
I'm truly sorry you had to go through all that. You sound like a decent person deceived by a devious person.
I wish you the best in the future. Don't be afraid to trust again. Just be cautious. Guard your heart.

[graystreet]

I saw my T today (thankfully, just happened to have made an appointment a few weeks ago). I told her I believed that I had been dealing with someone with narcissistic personality disorder, and she said she completely agreed, citing specific scenarios I described which were classic displays if NPD behavior, as well as abuse. I know it's dangerous to be an armchair psychologist, but the signs are overwhelmingly there. And she agreed that the NPD and the BPD individuals tend to gravitate to one another. I was like, why did he do this to me? It makes no sense. She said because he told himself he was helping you. And having multiple women interested in him feeds his ego.

I am so angry, but it doesn't really help. Of anyone, I do understand this man is seriously mentally ill and, unlike me, doesn't have support for his illness because he doesn't reach out, doesn't seek therapy like I do. I feel like it must be so sad and lonely in his mind. Though I want to punch him in his stupid face, there is a part of me which feels compassion because as someone who also struggles with a cluster B personality disorder, I know that the destructive behavior doesn't come from a place of malice, but rather deep mental pain. And my anger doesn't help either of us, so. Doesn't mean I'm gonna reach out, rather just try to somehow understand, and forgive. It's hard enough having a PD with support and understanding; I would hate to be him.

This isn't like a regular breakup; I don't feel rejected or hurt in the same way. Just worn out. And it runs deeper, because of how long we knew each other. I'd believed lies for so long, and I feel like it's going to take a while to process them, and to heal from what was, legitimately, and emotionally abusive relationship.

[Crazy Hitch]

I'm sorry you had to deal with this p.o.s. for so long.

Rather than dwell on what you can not change; think forward.

If your gut tells you something doesn't add up - listen.

And -

Stay away from long distance relationships!!!

Dear graystreet, I know it's so hard to fathom when someone has lied, cheated and fooled you. Don't feel stupid..... you gave him the benefit of the doubt, like anyone would, but you trusted your instinct and it was right. So good for you for sticking to what you knew in your gut was happening! That shows courage and strength to face the truth and not deny or run from it. You revealed him for who he truly is - a liar and a cheater.

It was an unhealthy relationship -- very volatile, and yes abusive. You will be far better off out of this relationship. The healing process takes time, but things will improve, slowly but surely. Allow yourself the time to process your emotions through this, to grieve and to heal. I find journaling to be very helpful for that -- to get out all your thoughts and feelings as they arise.

I am glad you have a therapist to help you. ((((((Hugs))))))

[sans]

Hi Graystreet,
Hopefully you can move past this by keeping busy with things to make your life a pleasant and peaceful experience. My advice is stay away from social media in regards to looking at profiles and trying to follow up on things.
I’m convinced my life would have moved in a better direction if I hadn’t felt the need to know how my ex’s life was progressing without me in it. I finally deleted my fb permanently just because I couldn’t trust myself not to get on there and start searching for evidence of his regret. It wasn’t there. It only made me loathe myself for being so pathetic. And created many problems for me over the years. It causes depression and generally makes moving on impossible. Nip it in the bud, and don’t look back. There’s someone out there who will treat you with love and respect. Don’t lose anymore of your life on someone who isn’t capable of those basic things.
Be patient with yourself and in time, you’ll be stronger and happier
Sans

[graystreet]

Originally Posted by sans

Hi Graystreet,
Hopefully you can move past this by keeping busy with things to make your life a pleasant and peaceful experience. My advice is stay away from social media in regards to looking at profiles and trying to follow up on things.
I’m convinced my life would have moved in a better direction if I hadn’t felt the need to know how my ex’s life was progressing without me in it. I finally deleted my fb permanently just because I couldn’t trust myself not to get on there and start searching for evidence of his regret. It wasn’t there. It only made me loathe myself for being so pathetic. And created many problems for me over the years. It causes depression and generally makes moving on impossible. Nip it in the bud, and don’t look back. There’s someone out there who will treat you with love and respect. Don’t lose anymore of your life on someone who isn’t capable of those basic things.
Be patient with yourself and in time, you’ll be stronger and happier
Sans

Oh, I've deleted my Facebook. He's not on there at all, and he's blocked me at this point anyway. I have a second one for online dating from which I can see him, but at this point he's locked it down pretty tightly.

My entire purpose of going back on Wednesday is because of that nagging, gnawing feeling I've had that there was something I was missing. You know? Like there was a gap in my knowledge. I had it when we were talking in 2016, I had it since this fall when we started talking as well. And I decided I was fed up, and going to find it for myself, even if I looked crazy to some woman; I'm never going to see him again, she doesn't know me, I'm never going to be in Tennessee again, god willing. And hey...it was only a few clicks on the first woman I suspected, a new one this time, and one message. That's all it took.

Filling that gap probably made things hurt more, but you know? I see things clearer. If I want to try this again (probably not), I'm armed with more knowledge, and I know that this was abuse, not a result of me being a crazy person people have to put up with and no one can deal with, as he made me believe for a very long time. Years. It doesn't mean I don't sit here right now and wrestle with that part of my brain telling me I'm stupid, but it's only been a few days, and I do think I'm winning. I am pretty sure I am not going to spiral, won't want to die over this, and that I'll be okay and come out stronger, which is a triumph for me, when this is the worst relational thing that has ever happened to me. Every other bad break up, I've spiraled and ended up in a very dark place.

Not to mention that filling the gap in my knowledge of him sleeping with multiple other women (I only have concrete proof of one, but I'm 100% sure) is practical and responsible for me and my health. Since I believed him all the times he told me I was the only one, and I believed him when he told me he wanted me to come down there long term, I got an IUD (for other reasons besides him though; it was just time). So there were no condoms involved between us. I don't want to take chances with my health, not when I don't know anything about these other women, and who else they may be sleeping with. He basically exposed me to the entire divorcee dating pool of East Tennessee, for all I know.

I appreciate all of the messages. It's helping so much to have support, even from people I don't know. It's going to be a process, I know, and I may be annoying sometimes and circle the thought-drain a little bit. But I'll be okay.