Gossiping, Dying Uncle

I feel like I've tried to post this here before, or maybe I started to and then deleted it.

My uncle (bio father's only brother) has been trying to contact me for a while. He just called while I was cleaning and I didn't hear the phone ring so I missed him, thank goodness.

Here's the back story:

This uncle has always been very dramatic and histrionic. Also, my father and I are estranged; I have no contact with him nor do I want it. He was incredibly abusive, both physically and emotionally my entire life. He is part of the reason I have PTSD. He is very controlling and, I suspect, NPD, or at least traits. I am also no contact with my brother, the middle child, as he was a drug addict for most of my childhood and well into his mid 20s, and he was physically abusive to me. My eldest brother and I have a very strained relationship because of his wife and how she has encouraged him to treat his family poorly. I do not mourn these relationships. I lived too long letting toxic people have a hold on my life, and now I just say they are what they are, and that's it. Yes, I would have liked to have a brother who didn't threaten to kill me and beat me. No, I don't love him. If he dies and someone needs to plan the funeral, I would deal with that as a family member. I can give that much respect and compassion. Same with my father. He's just a monster who donated sperm, in my opinion.

Anyhow, back to the uncle. My whole life this uncle has feigned a relationship with us kids. I had very little contact with him until I was an adult, and then he has tried to make it like we have been very close. Nothing is further from the truth. I have witnessed how he gossips and lies and turns nothing into drama and I never wanted any part of that. A few years ago, my eldest brother and I had a disagreement. I refused to discuss it with my uncle, but he had my brother's version, and he told it to our grandmother, who didn't have much longer to live. This made her very distraught that my brother and I were not talking at the time. I repeatedly told my uncle that I would not discuss it and he needed to butt out, it was none of his business. His response was "well, what will I tell grandma?!" And I said NOTHING! It's none of her business either. You need to let us resolve it, stay out of it, and stop picking sides. Well, he didn't stay out of it, and my grandmother believed my brother's side, even though he was lying, and nearly disowned me. My father, even though he is a monster, actually butted in at this time and told his mother what really happened, since he was there, and my grandmother apologized to me and felt terrible. My uncle apologized but blamed it on me because I wouldn't gossip about it to him. I told him it was his fault for not keeping his nose out of something that didn't involve him in the slightest.

Of course all through this disagreement everyone was telling me to be the bigger person and just forgive my brother and let everything go back to normal. I'm really super tired of people thinking that letting someone abuse you is being the bigger person. **** that.

So when I got very ill with my PTSD, unfortunately the only person I had to turn to was my father. And in my very ill state, I allowed him to "help." Which turned out to be trying to control all of my life, even attempting to take control of my finances and medical care (which I refused to allow him control of). He attempted to control all of my decisions, and surprise, surprise, I got much, much worse. Why? Because this controlling behavior was just like the abusive, controlling behavior from my childhood and the reason why I was ill in the first place.

We had a falling out and I no longer talk to my father. His love is conditional, and dependent on people allowing him to control them. I could go on and on about his abuse, but that's not the focus of this story.

Back to my uncle...so my uncle has tried numerous times, in conversations that I'm guilted into having, to get me to talk to my father. I tried once, decided it was pointless after that.

Shortly after I was laid off in July 2018, my uncle got very ill. He has had diabetes for a long time, he's obese, was born with a heart defect, and has never cared to manage his diet or his health. He has been on disability almost his entire life. Now he's in his 60s and it will convert to regular social security soon. Okay, wait, a little more back story on the uncle. So he lives on SSDI, has no other savings. When my grandmother died, he got an inheritance and blew it on buying a 3 bedroom condo large condo in a very expensive area (he has no friends that really come visit and no family of his own) and also bought a SECOND car that is an expensive sports car. I presume he paid cash because his credit sucks.

Okay, so he got sick, fell, broke his leg. Was told to do certain things to recover and heal his leg or he would lose it. Well, guess what? He didn't follow doctor's orders, and lost his leg in January. He's been in a rehab facility since then. He has no savings or insurance other than like Medicare, so he had to wait until my father sold ALL his assets to afford a prosthetic and start rehab. Of course, they did an estate sale and it didn't raise a lot of money because it was an estate sale. He seemed to expect that it would make a lot of money. Yeah...he's histrionic and narcissistic like my father, so, of course, he can't tune into reality. The condo went on the market as did both of his vehicles so he could afford to be put into and assisted living facility. I have compassion for him but not a lot of empathy. He did this to himself. He had a lot of chances and ability to put himself in a different position. So empathy? No. Compassion? Sure.

So, now, he has called a few times in the past few months to try and get a hold of me. He hasn't spoken to me in over a year since he originally got sick, so he hadn't bothered to call since well before that. He has no clue that I lost my job, went back on SSDI, had an incredibly difficult time of my own that I was dealing with. That my depression sunk to a new low...he doesn't know any of that. Why? Because he doesn't really care.

Anyways, he keeps calling, and I don't answer, because I don't want to give him information to then share with my father. I don't want my father to have any information about me. The first time he texted, he updated me on his situation, and said we need to catch up and he wants to know what's going on in my life. I responded that I'm sorry to hear what all he's going through, and that things in my life are going, and that's all. I refused to give any details.

Then a few days later he called while in the middle of the work day, so I couldn't respond. He must have tried me and both of my brothers because not an hour later, I got a nasty email from my father, that was addressed to me and both of my brothers that we are ungrateful, cruel people and we need to have some compassion, and that we've always meant the world to our uncle and he's always been there for us (I'm like wtf are you talking about). He says he's not writing the email to shame us but...Um, yeah, that's exactly why he wrote it. I did not respond, and also decided not to call my uncle back, even though before receiving my father's email, I was contemplating how I could handle a conversation with my uncle that did not kill my mental health.

So a few minutes ago I received a call from my uncle that I honestly just missed because I was cleaning and the phone is on vibrate. His voice mail is just an update on his condition and a happy 4th of July. I am debating about what to do. Frankly, I do not like this man. The only reason I feel compelled to do anything is because he is "family." But I also do have compassion, he is losing his eyesight on top of everything. He has no one, really. I feel like I could at least stomach a conversation. But I will not have a conversation with him where he does his typical interrogation of things about my life.

So...what do I do?

That's a tough one sees. Personally, I don't think I would call this uncle back. It doesn't seem like you owe him anything. But it is your decision.87

I know I don't owe him anything, but when I look at it objectively, he's a dying man, with no one in the world, really. He's very lonely, and the rest of his life, however long it is, is going to truly suck. Turning my back on someone who is suffering just feels wrong to me.

But I also can't just call him without a game plan of how I will maintain my boundaries.

I do feel for you. It is hard when it comes to family. You don't have to call him back. Should you chose to call him back then do so. Try and focus the conversation back on his issues. If he asks about your life get vague - not sure - don't know yet - or tell him the truth and say that you don't like being gossiped about and would rather keep things to yourself. Have a pre thought out excuse to get off the phone like some-one else it at the door.

I think it will be okay to answer the phone and keep it more of a 'one sided' conversation. He doesn't need to know you lost your job or SSDI. If he asks you about your job you can just say 'same old same old'. You don't need to speak to him like your long lost uncle that's close to you. But if you keep the contact open, and don't disclose to him what you wouldn't want your father to know, you'll have no regrets if anything permanent happens to him.

It's a tough call, My grandma was like that full of shyte even on her death bed.
In her last moments to put things right she still lied and dramatized.

Which is why I didn't visit her when she was dying, nor did I go to her funeral.

Guess what I don't feel remotely guilty, I watch the fall out from that old b***h every time I look at my mum and her brother and sister.

I am glad she is gone, glad she died before my grandad so my mum had a chance at a normal relationship with her father before he died.

So you know what, do what's right for your own mental health and stuff what everyone else thinks.

I agree with Crazy Hitch. This is good, sound advice!

I agree with Crazy too, but I just know that he won't really accept that for an answer. I'm just trying to think of what are the best words to deflect these questions.

Hmm.... could you diplomatically state that you don't want to talk about your life and you would rather hear more about what's going on for him?

Yes, but then there would be a probe of why I don't want to talk about my life.

The other part will be the insistence on talking to me about my father or my brothers, whom I do not have contact with, for my own protection. Him telling me to "be the bigger person," which means "let them continue to abuse you for the sake of their own peace or the family looking good." If he even brings them up I will just say I don't want to talk about that. I mean, what do I do when he refuses to respect my desire to not discuss something? Just hang up?

Well, it's not just the loss of the job, that was a year ago. I started my own consulting firm, I just bought a new car. He may know some of this from Facebook, but I'm still not going to discuss it with him. I suspect he doesn't know it because he never likes any of my posts. So I think he just goes on to post things about his situation for support and post stupid memes and unfactual news stories.

I talked to my therapist about how to deal with toxic or simply very difficult relatives (as I have that issue too in a way). She said that estrangement is perfectly fine way when communication is detrimental to you in many ways.

But then estrangement isn’t always possible and isn’t even always desirable

For those cases she advised to keep interactions and communication to a minimum.

You determine what that minimum is. For example come over for 30 minutes visits only. Keep phone conversations short, if conversation goes over what you determine sufficient then you excuse yourself. If phone conversations are upsetting use strictly texts or emails etc You choose what works. Even if you need to provide some care/assistance to such people, you can come over and help out, then leave.

Etc It’s been actually working better for me since.

In your situation you might not have to call back as he isn’t part of your life in a sense. But then again he is dying.

You could call and keep it short. Focus on talking about his health. If you want to tell him how you are doing tell him you have great new job that involves traveling. You can tell what you want to tell or you can tell nothing.

If he insists on asking you things tell him you got to go and you’ll call him later (if you think you might). Change topic or stop conversation immediately. Might not have to hang up per se but inform him that you have to go back to work.

Okay, so I guess I can set a timer and also just say that I have a work thing to go to but didn't want to leave him hanging. I like whomever suggested just saying work is the same old same old. And just that it's fine, no details. If he asks about the new car, I will just say I traded in for the same car payment I was already paying so it didn't cost me anything (it didn't). Part of the thing here is I don't want them to know I have any money. Financial stuff is kind of a thing in my family, and I don't want any accusations or requests or whatever. It's not like I have money to spare anyhow. I am making money but I'm paying off a huge amount of past medical debt, so I really don't have a whole lot to spare.

Sigh...I can try to make time for this at some point this week, I think. I guess I will just keep him talking about himself. And if he brings up any family I will just say I would prefer not to discuss other people. And if he continues, I will just say "if that's what you want to talk about then I will have to get off the phone now. If you'd like to discuss something else we can keep chatting."

Ug...it's just so hard to not react and not get swept up in the emotional manipulation.

Seesaw

Seesaw, I wouldn't discuss money, car, work except in general terms. If he says something about the car don't say anything about the financing. Just say something like "yeh, I like it."

Could you communicate with him only via text? That gives you the chance to think through responses before answering. Plus you can just ignore anything you don't want to talk about.

I did try communicating by text but his eyesight is going in a bad way. Like 75% gone in one eye and 25% in the other.

I did just send a short text saying I was sorry I missed him, glad to hear he's progressing, and I'll try to give him a call when I'm not working. That way at least he doesn't feel ignored entirely.

Is it wrong that I just want to be compassionate here? I feel like I'm not doing anything more than I've done for elderly neighbors who went to hospice, etc. Except they didn't cause me pain and drama...

Hi. I feel your pain on the controlling, conditional father. I had the same problem with mine. You were only "worthy" if you were doing what he said and thought what he thought. Gossip/gossipers. If there is ONE thing I HATE in life, it is those people. They have nothing better in life to do than start trouble for others. I have personally been the victim of this twice in my life and from then on I have reacted rather violently about it. As far as "bigger person"? In certain circumstances, yes. But when the person in question is forcing you to take the high road because of crap they keep pulling, NO. As far as being a dying person, I have a childhood friend that for whatever reason won't talk to us anymore. None of us know why...but she avoids us. We were the "five musketeers" when we were young. She has had one round of breast cancer treatment and we are all concerned, but she will not call us back or talk to us. So, yes, we miss her and still love her, but she is ALONE, or so it seems, by CHOICE.
So, I don't think you should feel bad about yourself. You have shouldered a lot of garbage from others for quite a long time, so breathe, and make decisions for yourself.

Oh yeah, I can tell you get it. Thank you for your words of support. I'm just trying to do what makes me feel like I'm not a horrible human being and also protect myself at the same time.

Tough one. I'm kind of proud to see your compassion with your uncle.. because honestly, if I were you I would hang him up and block him.

I don't have many suggestions. If you decide to communicate with him via phone, is it possible to you to make a conversation about himself? I mean like one-sided responses, but limit his chance to ask you or gossip by asking more and more about himself. I did this to a NPD and it was always effective.

Yeah, I feel like if he asks me questions I can just give a vague response and follow up asking about him and turning it back to him.

I mean, there is some info I can give him. Like recent visits to see my mom, not details just like oh, I took a trip up to NC to see her, etc. Or I just saw the new Incredibles movie. Maybe I can make a list of info I'm okay to share so it at least sounds like I'm having a bit of a conversation?

Thank you for the advice!

I don't believe it is wrong to ever be compassionate. I admire that you want to be compassionate with someone who has hurt you in the past.

It wasn't until I posted my last reply that I realized you said he was losing his eyesight. Texts are probably not the best way to communicate.

You mention having a written list of "safe" topics. I like that idea. That way if he says something that throws you off you can consult the list.

Would it be possible to start the conversation by saying you only have a few minutes, but wanted to check in on him. You mentioned setting a timer. At the end of the time tell him you have to go.