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Default Mar 07, 2019 at 12:55 PM
  #1
Say an overly-dependent person comes and asks for your help. And you feel that it's not your job to do things for her, so you make a suggestion, "Why don't you try xyz?" Your aim is to help her help herself and stop asking you. But each and every time you make a suggestion, she tells you why it wouldn't work and how her situation is infinitely hopeless. And this back and forth will persist until you give in and offer to do things for her.

At what point do you say, "Hey I'm maxed out on my suggestions. You are on your own"?

Next time, should I just say from the beginning, "No, I can't help you, sorry" rather than suggesting her to help herself and get myself trapped into this kind of conversation? Or if that's too cold or harsh, should I limit it to just one suggestion and say, "Well I tried to help you but I can't think of anything else"?
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Default Mar 07, 2019 at 02:15 PM
  #2
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Originally Posted by ennie View Post
Say an overly-dependent person comes and asks for your help. And you feel that it's not your job to do things for her, so you make a suggestion, "Why don't you try xyz?" Your aim is to help her help herself and stop asking you. But each and every time you make a suggestion, she tells you why it wouldn't work and how her situation is infinitely hopeless. And this back and forth will persist until you give in and offer to do things for her.

At what point do you say, "Hey I'm maxed out on my suggestions. You are on your own"?

Next time, should I just say from the beginning, "No, I can't help you, sorry" rather than suggesting her to help herself and get myself trapped into this kind of conversation? Or if that's too cold or harsh, should I limit it to just one suggestion and say, "Well I tried to help you but I can't think of anything else"?
if in context of past conversations you know that she typically does this, I would say at her first objection. Thing is rather than "hey I'm maxed out on my sugggestions... etc" how about being brutally honest with this person next time?

Instead just call them out on their behavior. you can do this nicely but very bluntly - "are you asking me for help by way of advice or are you asking me to do this for you?" Forces her to admit that she just wants you to do it. So. that clears the air but if she objects and acts like she just wants suggestions then at first sign of her endless suggestions you say "if you already know exactly what won't work, you can figure out for yourself what will..." or even what you said above. That's my way anyway.
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Default Mar 07, 2019 at 02:35 PM
  #3
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Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006 View Post
"are you asking me for help by way of advice or are you asking me to do this for you?"
I think that is the most clear and direct one that gets to the heart of the issue. Thank you so much.
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Default Mar 07, 2019 at 02:51 PM
  #4
Unfortunately there are people that prefer other people do things for them and they begin to create a patsy list of people they can "use" when they want to get things without doing it themselves. There also are people that genuinely don't know how to problem solve as it could be that they never learned how to learn too. You always have a right to say, "sorry but I am not very good at giving you the kind of advice you are looking for". After a while this person will get to know you are not someone they can lean on for help. You always have a choice and can say it nicely like what I just put in quotes.
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Default Mar 07, 2019 at 03:24 PM
  #5
I'm so sorry you're going through all of this, ennie I agree with what all the others have already wisely said better than I ever could. Just try to be honest with this person. Make her understand that you're perfectly willing to get advice to her, but not to do things for her instead. Try to set up boundaries if you can. You have every right to do so after all. Just make her understand that her behavior can be annoying to you. I'm sure you'll be able to be nice about it. Everyone else has already offered great advice. If you follow it, you'll have no problems. Remember that you can't control other people's reactions. If she gets hurt, but you've still tried to act as nicely as possible, it's not necessarely your fault. Either way, you need to take care of yourself as well. If you're too afraid to hurt her, the best way is to just make up some excuses or tell her that you don't feel competent enough to help her out. Hopefully she'll understand after a while. I'm so sorry. I know it's not easy to deal with people like this. Especially if you're a kind-hearted person like you are and don't want to be rude. But we need to set up boundaries sometimes. Remember that we're here for you if you need it. Feel free to PM me anytime. Let me know if I can do something to help you. Wish you good luck! Let us know how it goes. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this
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Default Mar 07, 2019 at 04:06 PM
  #6
Yes, this sounds like a passive aggressive tactic to get somebody to do things for them that they don’t want to do.

Now you’ve given in previously and done the thing for them.

Next time say something like, “You know how to do this. You can do it. I’m not going to do this for you this time.” And stick to your guns.

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Default Mar 07, 2019 at 05:33 PM
  #7
Lol....I always take the approach "give a person a fish & they eat one meal, teach them to fish & they eat for life".....so I translate that into action. I don't do the work for the person but I make them do ths work while I supervise & coach but NEVER do the work myself.

That weeds out whether they just want someone doing it for them or they really are willing to learn & do.

I had a computer engineer on my team right out if college. The real of the group looked at him as lazy. I took time to go out into the computer lab & teach him by his doing it.....everything he needed to know. He ended up excelling but he wouldn't if I had done his work for him. I believe in teaching..but if people din't want to learn we can't force them.....then I just say....guess you really don't want it done that badly & leave them to figure out how to do it on their own

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Default Mar 07, 2019 at 05:49 PM
  #8
I'm getting much better at saying "No" to new people. This is definitely a progress I made in therapy.

However, I'm still struggling with the same people I've already given into for years, where it's harder to break off their expectations.

For example, it's harder to come up with excuses when the person already knows I own a copy machine at home and she asks to make copies. With new people, they don't know, so I can just say, "You know, there is ABC copy services around the corner" and they will leave me alone.
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Default Mar 07, 2019 at 05:57 PM
  #9
Lol....if she does the copy machine often just say the cost if ink has gone up so high I will have to charge you to help pay for the ink. Or you could just say you ran out if ink & haven't gotten any more

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Default Mar 07, 2019 at 08:09 PM
  #10
Congratulations on your progress!

You could perhaps say: "I'm sorry, but I've decided not to make copies anymore."

"Why not?"

"That's just what I have decided."

"But why?"

"It's just my decision."

Just because someone asks you a question does not mean that you have to say yes, or answer it at all.
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Default Mar 08, 2019 at 01:52 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by ennie View Post
Say an overly-dependent person comes and asks for your help. And you feel that it's not your job to do things for her, so you make a suggestion, "Why don't you try xyz?" Your aim is to help her help herself and stop asking you. But each and every time you make a suggestion, she tells you why it wouldn't work and how her situation is infinitely hopeless. And this back and forth will persist until you give in and offer to do things for her.

At what point do you say, "Hey I'm maxed out on my suggestions. You are on your own"?

Next time, should I just say from the beginning, "No, I can't help you, sorry" rather than suggesting her to help herself and get myself trapped into this kind of conversation? Or if that's too cold or harsh, should I limit it to just one suggestion and say, "Well I tried to help you but I can't think of anything else"?
I had to do this with my daughter (not sure if you know my story). In a nutshell.. she turned 18 3/2018 ran away, shacked up at a party house, showed up at home three months later with a drug and alcohol problem and we immediately took her to hospital for inpatient treatment, then rehab, rehab housing, sober house 1 and now sober house 2. When she left we had the car towed away from where she was staying within 4 days and within 5 we shut her phone off and changed the code on the security locks at home. We did reach out but had to stop after a couple of weeks due to the fact that we had no power. From then on she was on her own.
She had it in her head that she would live with us after rehab but we said no. She had to get her own phone plan and has to pay her own rent. We started letting her borrow the car she used to drive but if her dad can't fix what is wrong with it when there is a problem then it is her job to pay for it.

This was the hardest stuff to go through in my life, I wanted to rescue her, I was afraid of taking the phone away (duh) but the years of AA taught me that I can't expect change if I enable the behavior I want changed.

I had to learn how to set boundaries and stick by them. Many times when you are hurt boundaries are laid down and a tiny bit easier to keep because you are so afraid of being hurt again but many people have an issue laying them down out of fear they will lose or hurt the person they care about.

The way we did this was the only way we thought we could teach her that her treatment of us was unacceptable and not going to keep happening.
Even now if she asks for advice but has an excuse for why each thing I say won't work I tell her that I wont listen to it anymore because she is not interested in my help.
This whole thing has been very difficult for me.

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Default Mar 08, 2019 at 12:06 PM
  #12
It sounds like someone who wants commiseration and drama, and others to enable her. I knew someone like that, kept asking for advice but never actually took it. Probably wanted me to get involved directly in her problems somehow, but I never did. One day I just bluntly told her to not ask me for advice and that in any case I wasn't going to give her advice anymore.
It sounds like this person is using you, taking advantage of your empathy. Bottom line is, solving her problems for her guarantees she'll continue to pester you. You can simply say "I don't know what to tell you" or "That's a shame. I'm sure you'll figure it out" or similar responses. I'd avoid circular conversations as to why anything other than enabling her won't work - change the topic or end the conversation if she persists. Or you can be blunt and say "I'm not in the mood for a game of 'yes, but...' You know, when you bring up a problem, ask for advice and then shoot down every and any suggestion for solving your problems that isn't me doing it for you."
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Default Mar 08, 2019 at 12:24 PM
  #13
There is asking for assistance and there is being used. It is obvious to me that the latter is what is happening here.

Frankly, I would ask this person to kick in a few bucks towards ink and paper. It is okay to point out you just simply can't afford to let them continue to use your copier for free.

In my own case, I had several people that came to rely upon me to give them rides. Well one day, when they all piled in, I said I had to stop at the gas station first. On arrival I turned around and asked them to contribute. Some did so begrudgingly. But two things happened. One person started giving me money now and then and the other two no longer expected a ride.

I suggest you might have to confront your acquaintance to do the same (right) thing.

Whatever your choice is remember that if you are to give them help you ought to do so only on your own terms and at your own discretion.
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Default Mar 08, 2019 at 01:44 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Open Eyes View Post
Unfortunately there are people that prefer other people do things for them and they begin to create a patsy list of people they can "use" when they want to get things without doing it themselves. There also are people that genuinely don't know how to problem solve as it could be that they never learned how to learn too. You always have a right to say, "sorry but I am not very good at giving you the kind of advice you are looking for". After a while this person will get to know you are not someone they can lean on for help. You always have a choice and can say it nicely like what I just put in quotes.
Whats a patsy list?

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Default Mar 08, 2019 at 03:00 PM
  #15
A patsy is an easy target; someone people think is easy to push around.

I am not a fan of being blunt unless I am exasperated at someone who disrespects me.

Managing people who expect you to do what they want by setting new boundaries can be delicate to do. It is so important to be consistent. But, we're all human and all of us makes mistakes. And folks in recovery and those who need to be in recovery are fragile. It would concern me about hurting them further.

One thing I say when I set a boundary, and the person pushes back is " Please respect my decision." If they keep going, I walk away. After that, I keep my distance from them by not seeking them out or starting conversations with them, if that is at all possible.

This is a tricky topic because so much depends on who the person is. Like with my family, when I lived at home when I tried to stand up for myself, mother and my sisters just got nastier to regain their "power".

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Default Mar 08, 2019 at 08:14 PM
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I knew someone like that, kept asking for advice but never actually took it.
Yes. To someone like that, a good idea is "Okay, I will [make a call/ research, etc.] for you"
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Default Mar 08, 2019 at 08:16 PM
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A patsy is an easy target; someone people think is easy to push around.
I seem to learn something new everyday on PC.
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Default Mar 08, 2019 at 08:21 PM
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Well one day, when they all piled in, I said I had to stop at the gas station first. On arrival I turned around and asked them to contribute. Some did so begrudgingly. But two things happened. One person started giving me money now and then and the other two no longer expected a ride.
LOL! You are so tactful...I can just imagine this scene (LOL). I was just about to ask a question on here about the situation with people asking me for rides but you answered it for me. Oh, I need to try this sometime! LOL.
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Default Mar 09, 2019 at 02:21 AM
  #19
The funny thing with boundaries and relationships, is you don’t know where the boundary is until someone’s crossed it.

Like in this case with someone being nervy about getting you to make copies for them, you didn’t know that bothered you until they repeatedly did it. To you, it was more about them repeatedly manipulating you that caused you to draw the boundary.

I had a life-long, thought-was-a-friend. The final conflict was about boundaries. I told her she must treat me with respect by backing off her ‘attacks’ on me when I say I am not engaging with her. She could not fathom abiding by these wishes of mine, and unapologetically expressed this. It’s like she couldn’t separate where she ended and I began as a being. But I am not talking about very ‘healthy’ persons here.

She had blown through all other boundaries I had tried to enforce, and I relented by allowing her, by continuing to be her friend. I draw a line/ she crosses it. I back up and draw another line/ she crosses it. And so on until it was just too unbearable. There’s your true boundary!

When you do hold tight, enforcing a boundary...boy do people push back...boy do they get mad...especially when you have already done the behavior that you are now refusing to no longer do. So proceed with caution, folks.

Making copies shouldn’t be too bad an issue to have to deal with. Be strong.

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Default Mar 09, 2019 at 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TishaBuv View Post
The funny thing with boundaries and relationships, is you don’t know where the boundary is until someone’s crossed it.

Like in this case with someone being nervy about getting you to make copies for them, you didn’t know that bothered you until they repeatedly did it. To you, it was more about them repeatedly manipulating you that caused you to draw the boundary.

I had a life-long, thought-was-a-friend. The final conflict was about boundaries. I told her she must treat me with respect by backing off her ‘attacks’ on me when I say I am not engaging with her. She could not fathom abiding by these wishes of mine, and unapologetically expressed this. It’s like she couldn’t separate where she ended and I began as a being. But I am not talking about very ‘healthy’ persons here.

She had blown through all other boundaries I had tried to enforce, and I relented by allowing her, by continuing to be her friend. I draw a line/ she crosses it. I back up and draw another line/ she crosses it. And so on until it was just too unbearable. There’s your true boundary!

When you do hold tight, enforcing a boundary...boy do people push back...boy do they get mad...especially when you have already done the behavior that you are now refusing to no longer do. So proceed with caution, folks.

Making copies shouldn’t be too bad an issue to have to deal with. Be strong.

this subject couldn't have been brought up at a better time. a girlfriend and i are dealing with setting boundaries with other females in our lives; and your first sentence said it all: we don't know where the boundary is until that person has crossed it...omg. so true. in my situation this was a friend at our health club that in the beginning i thought might become a friend, tho she works, i'm retired and the friendship began in such a flurry of text exchanges and almost immediately i found i had become her therapist and rescuer and jumped in with both feet because at the time i felt i `could help her and i was getting something from it'....but then my gut started telling me it was becoming a 1-sided unhealthy friendship so i would text that i had a lot going at the time and would respond less frequently; then i get bombarded with more texts about how she misses the frequent contact and joking between us and my texts again become less frequent. she's injured and put her club membership on hold and prob. won't return, but is there some gentle way i can just step back and move on without her being in my life. i've accepted my part early on in trying to fix her, offering up so many suggestions for every aspect of her dysfunctional life, and for the life of me, i just DON'T GET HOW SHE CANNOT SEE THAT THE SHIFT IN THIS BRIEF FRIENDSHIP HAS TAKEN PLACE. do any of you have any suggestions other than being totally honest that the friendship has run its course and it's time for both of us to move on??????
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