Not sure what to do

She thinks I should pursue him and that the best thing for me would be to attach to someone with healthy attachment as that would be the only situation I could develop healthy attachment. She's trying to convince me my previous relationship was not normal but how would I believe that if that's all I know? Also, a lot of relationships I saw growing up were as bad or worse.

This thread got me thinking about gender roles and wondering if I am playing out a role or are truly this or that as society dictates.

We’ve come so far though in breaking stereotypes, so being who you truly are is the most welcome and undefined now than ever.

I suggest just asking him for a drink or coffee with no excuse about any reason other than enjoying each other’s company. If there’s chemistry it will surface.

Keep working with your t. I have to agree that your previous relationship wasn’t normal or healthy. How about you asking him just in hopes to make a friend? No romance pressure

I'll see him tomorrow. I don't know if I'll get a chance to talk to him much, but maybe. If I'm asking him to coffee or something individually, how would that ever read "as friends" and not as a date?

I guess I just keep doubting if it's a good idea. There seem to be a lot of similarities between him and my ex. By themselves, they seem pretty insignificant. Put together, they start to add up.

They both:
Have dark eyes and dark hair
Are currently in or were in the military (which I have to compete against because I can't have ever gone through anything difficult because it can't compete with boot camp and I'm just being a wuss.)
Have perfect pitch (it bugs me when someone has a distinct advantage over others without any effort on their part)
Have at least one cat (really don't want to compete with an animal for someone's attention)

Why do you feel any need to compete? Are you looking st relationships as a competition rather than a team work?

Why does it bother you that someone might be a good singer? What significance does it have in regardless to what kind of partner one might be?

If you need to fight for guys’ attention regardless if it is because of a cat or something else it’s because they are not fully emotionally available or just aren’t that interested not because they have a cat.

I think you are focusing on superficial traits rather than perhaps looking at a bigger picture?

Perfect pitch has nothing to do with singing. It means you can hear a note or any sound and determine the pitch/frequency without any reference. Being around people like that make me feel stupid and I'm tired of always being around people that make me feel stupid, worthless, and inept. How would someone I always feel stupid around be a good partner? I can't imagine you would understand because you're not a musician, but it's really humiliating to not be able to play by ear very well and be with someone with perfect pitch who can play everything by ear perfectly. It makes me look like a bad musician.

And I always have to fight for attention. That's just how it is. I'm just not loud enough. I don't yell over people enough. I try to be courteous and conscientious and not barrel over people all the time, but then you just get ignored. I would just hope if I were to date again that my SO would give me attention and would want to spend time with me. That if we went out in a group that I would actually feel included. That they wouldn't just go talk to a random stranger at the bar for an hour while we're on a date. It's just like I wouldn't date someone who was super close to their family either...I want to actually be a priority for once, not someone unimportant compared to all the other people and animals in their life. I also wouldn't want to be judged about not being close to my family (maybe there's a good reason?). But with the pet thing, I just want a better chance next time. He has two cats. I couldn't compete against one cat, let alone two.

You feeling stupid or worthless has nothing to do with “them” making you feel so. Somebody always is more capable than others. No I am not a musician but I am an artist and there are ton of artists who are better than me and several of my friends. What does it matter? You feeling stupid around people whom you perceive better musicians has nothing to do with them being bad or good partners. It’s a lot to do with your confidence and self esteeem.

Pets are pets and people are people. It’s a different kind of attention. If someone devoted more time to their cats than you it has nothing to do with cats. If he isn’t fully emotionally available for you and lacks commitment, he’d find something else to a priority over you: job, gym, friends etc Them not having pets is no guarantee he’d won’t be neglectful partner

You don’t need to be loud for a man to prioritize you. You just need right kind of men.

You don’t want someone who has close family?

So do you believe that the reason man wouldn’t make you a priority is him having pets, close family, perfect pitch etc? So if he had none of that, he’d be a good partner? So less someone has going on in their life, better partners they are? It doesn’t work this way and is often the opposite.

Your previous partner was emotionally unavailable and wasn’t really into it. It has nothing to do with anything like cats or military etc.

One can have pets and kids and good family and perfect talents and still be a great partner. And he might have none of that and still not be that interested in you.

I hope you share all this with your therapist and keep working on it

You are talking yourself out of this, finding any excuse you can muster. Why are you sabotaging yourself like this?

All three of my sons are musicians. I gave them guitar lessons, which they loved and ran with the music. The youngest is freaky good and we just realized he actually does have perfect pitch. He’ll sit and watch TV while playing his guitar and just start playing along with whatever music comes on the TV. He can hear a note and just play it. However, he had ADHD and isn’t loving his regular classes so much, only loves music right now. So, it’s a win on perfect pitch and not so much in other areas.

You are most likely much better at some things than this guy is, while he is better at other things than you. Sometimes, partners compliment each other in the things the other lacks and make a better team.

I am tune deaf. For real. Just saying. It kind of sucks. But it has no bearing on my personal life.

The kids without the perfect pitch are great musicians too. It takes practice. Don’t let anyone intimidate you.

Because I don't want to fall again for the lies of "I love and accept you" again. Because the actions don't follow the words. With the gender stuff, no straight man could ever possibly accept me or understand me. I'd have to be a "woman" and forget who I am again. I also don't want to have to live in someone's shadow. I grew up with a man who thought females were inferior. I don't feel like I can be treated like an equal or that I can be equal if I actually am inferior to a man in any way. My ex didn't even defend me when other men would treat me as inferior.

I can't imagine anyone who identifies with their gender assigned at birth and is straight (to a lesser extent) to understand how scary it is to be yourself at all and especially to a non-LGBT+ potential partner. Or how easily I can be pushed into the role.

That only works if both partners are willing to actually help the other out and put even a little bit of effort using their skills to help their partner achieve their dream etc. It really means nothing if there's no actual teamwork. And why would I ever trust someone to actually be a team player and actually help me where I lack without accusing me of being willfully stupid or inept? It doesn't matter that I give freely of my time and talents to help another person.

And the playing by ear thing...I have never met someone with a music degree or was in a music program or plays professionally that was worse than me at playing by ear. I can do it, but I'm very slow so I can never get it as fast as other people. No one's been able to figure out why. I have a better sense of intonation and music reading ability than a lot of people. I think it's because I have a really hard time paying attention to anything and I can only process small amounts of aural/oral data at a time. If someone gives me instructions on how to do something, it has to be one step at a time or it has to be written down. If someone says two steps in a row, unless they're incredibly short, I just forgot the first one. But no one cares about that. They just care that you're too slow and an inconvenience. And then I can't enjoy playing with people when I have to play by ear because no one's willing to help me. Mr. perfect pitch wouldn't help me and when he tried he would just get mad that I would forget information like I was being stupid on purpose. How would that not hurt my feelings? That I'm so stupid and incapable that someone can't even believe I'm that stupid.

The gender roles haven’t really gone so smooth for me too.

I remember I had a book when I was little that said the daddy and son do this and the mommy and daughter do this- totally traditional gender roles. I bet that book is no longer in print! Lol.

It’s nice how today, nothing is so clearly defined and old school traditional anymore.

Have you taken any music theory yet? That’s when my oldest quit playing seriously because he said he just couldn’t grasp the theory.

I wish I had learned to play an instrument. I sang and have a really good sense about music, but no education. I can’t read music. But I can tell a song from hearing the first note sometimes. Remember that show Name That Tune? I could have won that.

I've taken most of the graduate music theory classes. If there were any professor jobs out there, I'd probably be teaching theory. It was the minor area of my doctorate after all. Knowing theory doesn't do anything but destroy your creativity and make you into an elitist jerk. While being able to read music is helpful, a real musician can play everything by ear. I can't play an exact melody by ear in the moment, so I usually have to come up with a countermelody or a harmony line. I can sing melody just fine if I know the song, but I usually like to sing harmony by ear. My voice is too low to comfortably sing women's songs anyway, and besides, I get bored.

If I can watch a violinist play, I can figure the notes out by watching AND listening. By just listening it's so much harder. Or trying to translate a tune I know onto an instrument without any reference. Apparently, everyone else does it SO easily. So I guess I'm just stupid.

Someone with a doctorate is NOT stupid.

Most certainly “everyone” isn’t able to hear the notes right. You have very black and white thinking going on. What’s your definition of stupid? Figuring out notes doesn’t make one smart and not hearing notes right doesn’t make people stupid. Many people can’t draw a straight line. Doesn’t make them stupid. You have somewhat rigid views on things.

I can't do simple tasks that others do easily. What else would you call it? It would be one thing if I had a mental disability or something...

Or would it be idiot savant or something...I can do difficult tasks easily but nothing easy. I was teased for not being able to do simple things when I was younger.

If they can't draw a straight line, they're not an art major or anything like that. That's my point. I was always the slowest/worst in the class in hearing notes. One class for example right now has us playing common melodies by ear as students are trying different teaching strategies. I can figure out one, maybe two phrases, by the time everyone else has figured it out and then I can't fully participate. I can't even remember the melody in such a cacophony of sound so I don't know how other people do it.

When you're consistently the worst among your peers no matter how much extra work you do on your own, it starts to wear on you as a person. Or at least if there was someone else who didn't get it so I wasn't always the only one left out.

No they wouldn’t choose art major. But it wouldn’t make them stupid. In fact it would show that they are smart understanding that it’s just not their thing.

Other people figure music out and you don’t doesn’t mean they are smart and you are stupid. They just have better ability in something. When you are talking about art of music, besides hard work and general intelligence one has to have an ability/talent. Talent is not an inducation of smarts. It is what it is. If you totally lacked abilities, you’d not be accepted to a program and likely wouldn’t graduate. You must have ability in simethhhg.

If you believe you lack ability though and are the worst among your peers (and in addition to it it bothers you) what made you choose this path?

If I’m understanding correctly, you have a Ph.D in a music discipline, maybe music education. And you are saying, when you perform music, you have too slow a response time to be able to play and wing-it, playing off others. So, I am getting the impression that you only play solo, after much practice, or with others but it must be rehearsed and very routine. Please correct if that’s wrong.

When I’ve seen or performed with bands, it’s quite improvisational. There isn’t even a set list sometimes. My dad, the keyboardist, just starts playing one of the hundreds of songs the band plays, the standards, and they just jump in. The sax takes a solo, then back to the drummer, etc... is this what you are saying is so challenging for you?

I am talking about lounge bands, not classical orchestras. I have no idea what in the mind makes one good at the improvised element of performing music. You have a very interesting issue here.

I agree with Divine about how you are telling yourself you are ALL BAD because you are not good at one thing. Abusive parents can do such a head number on us.

As for the person who treated his cat better than you... the next person won’t do that.