setting boundaries with people

So, another poster's thread inspired me to vent about my situation for any feedback (which is welcome).

If you are in financial straits, off-and-on, and take a vacation during that time, does that make you a liar about your situation?

Do I owe people an explanation for every decision I make with regards to how i spend the money I have access too?

For the last year of grad school (I'm in another grad program now) I ran out of money and was nearly evicted. But I reached out to friends and family and some people helped me out. I offered to repay them when I got my last financial aid refund check, and everyone declined my offer of repayment. So, i took myself on a vacation to visit some friends in another state and posted photos on FB about it.

I am curious if that makes me come across as a liar? Everyone knew I was a grad student, who only worked consistently 9 months of the year, and struggled to find work for summer months, b/c its in education.

I don't think I owed anyone an explanation of "how did you afford going on that vacation, Blanche, if you couldn't pay your rent?" I think it's about boundaries for me.

If someone offers me financial help, I don't feel like I owe it to them to explain why I'm spending money again b/c I'm back in black, and not in the red, anymore.

If I borrow money from a family member or friend, I ALWAYS pay them back esp. if they ask me to. Like, I was going to visit a cousin this month but car repairs ate up the savings I had for my trip. I had asked her to buy a concert ticket for me, for a concert we planned to see, and I Paypaled her my cost of the ticket price. So she got my money. When I didn't go through with the trip due to my car repairs, I apologized to her, and she claims she understands b/c she's in financial straits now too. I never asked her to give me back my concert ticket money, b/c that would be rude.

I'm just curious if anyone else has been in financial straits, and been judged as a liar by your family or friends for your financial decisions during that time.

There is a difference between a good honest person like yourself simply not disclosing personal information as means of setting boundaries;
and a manipulative person like my relative deliberately lying and misrepresenting the facts in order to get something from someone else.

I do consider the whole picture before I conclude someone is lying.

But as far as the context of my thread, I'd like to look for early yellow flags being aware of my own gullible nature.

It's tricky. You're right in that you shouldn't owe anyone an explanation because it is your money and your right, however, at the same time, when you invite people into your financial situation, it gives them an eye into your situation, which opens that door up. It was nice of you to not make your friend pay you back the concert ticket money, but when your friends and family declined repayment, I would have repayed them anyways, Then they have no right to judge when you go on vacation and post pics of it on FB. Perhaps posting the pics on Facebook caused some amount of resentment?

Well, whats the worst that can happen? People might not believe you the next time you say you are in dire straits and need help.

Its not so much lying to other people, or the boundaries with other people - its those same things with yourself that you might want to look at. Why do you let yourself live so close to the edge? What is keeping you from making better decisions for yourself? These are things i struggle with.

Yes. You have a right to not disclose what you would spend your money on. However, it seems clear that they thought that you were going to spend said money on your financial situation and perhaps wouldn't have otherwise gave money if they knew it would be spent on something more indulgent. I can see how it can come across deceitful to others. Especially since you said you reached out to friends and family about your financial strait

That being said, if they take issue with what you did, the simple solution imo is to once again offer to repay them. That removes some doubt that you "lied" to them.

If you look at the timing that they declined her repayment, it is when they were fully informed by her own disclosure that she had extra money on hand. They made this offer when she was in the black, and not the red. If a lender says to a borrower "Don't pay me back" knowing the borrower is doing financially well, that's the lender's problem.

This is totally different from me saying, "Oh no, it's okay, you don't need to pay me back" out of sympathy to my relative because she was crying and acting desperate.

My bad. Didn't fully pay attention then.

If you offered to pay someone back and they declined then I dont think you are a liar. You wanted to do the right thing and they said you didnt have to. I dont think other people should be judging you based on that if they determined that you didnt owe them anything.

This question depends on the opinions of the person who gave you the money. Do they feel resentful that you took a vacation or don’t they? Do you not deserve to take a vacation in their opinion? In what way did you lie?

I had a friend who was a gambler. She’d borrow money from friends while in dire straits and then go out gambling. That’s a different story, IMO. I stopped giving her money because of that.

When people give money to others I don’t think they can help but feel a bit involved and form some opinions... it’s hard not to. I have a policy that if I give money or items to somebody, it’s always a gift and never a loan. Also, I believe I should only give the money or gift if I can accept the other person’s decisions and what they do with the gift or the money. I try not to judge... and I don’t believe anybody has the right to give you a hard time in this situation since you offered repayment.... but since you are asking an opinion.... I would not be inclined to give money again if somebody took a vacation soon after I helped bail them out of a tough situation.

It depends. If I helped my daughter when she was in college, it doesn’t mean she couldn’t go on vacation ever again later on. But it was not a loan. It was a parent helping their college student kid. Which is a normal occurrence.

If these were distant relatives or not even relatives, I’d feel different. I wonder if they didn’t want money back because they thought you are still struggling but just trying to repay the debt. So they said it’s ok. I’d probably still mail them a check or send money via pay pal or send them VISA gift card or other gift card via mail/email etc How close are these people to you that it would be ok to accept monetary gift from them or how much money was it? If it was $50 I’d not care. If it was $500 I’d feel a bit different.

Did these people express concern about the situation or you just think they might?

I would put yourself in their shoes. They gave you the money for a specific reason and that was not to fritter it away on yourself.

I have been avoiding giving people money for this very reason. I have unwillingly financed holidays when my understanding the money I gifted was for daily needs like food and rent. I can tell you I was very angry when these people spent my money on unnecessary things. If they found themselves in a position of no longer needing that money, the responsible thing to do would be to return it or save it for the next crisis. Instead, I will now buy things like food, provide gift cards for tuition, text books, or pay someone's utility bill/rent directly. I really think it irresponsible to be flitting away someone else's money on things that were not intended. It is perfectly understandable why they would judge you harshly and be very ticked off. They were of the understanding this money would go towards the necessities you were apparently doing without.

Okay, so that has been my rule of thumb - until recently. I broke my rule when my daughter (31) called in a panic about being stuck and being unable to pay for tuition, rent, and repairs to her car. So I transferred her money - several thousands of dollars to cover it. And now I see her weeks later posting selfies all over social media of her out socializing, attending parties, going out for dinners, and just this weekend evidence she is at an expensive entertainment expo. I am livid as that is not what I intended for her to spend my money on.

You and she have an obligation to spend that money on what it was earmarked for.

People have very different ideas about what is "dire financial straits" and what is "luxury". That makes me reluctant sometimes to be generous - because increasingly often someone will ask for a reduction on something I'm selling for instance, because they say they that are in dire straits and then I see them in a fancy car and talking about their vacations.

For me being in dire financial straits means no food, and I'm inclined to be generous - but nowadays I realise that people feel entitled to luxuries and to complaining that "the government should provide me with cheap housing"... so I have to set some hard boundaries around my impulse to generosity. If I loaned someone money and they spent on a vacation, then I would ask for the loan back.

So what if you are "a student", you are still moving towards adult financial responsibility . Does being a student mean you are entitled to subsidy? Different people have different rules and extremely different life experiences around money, so perhaps you should check out with the people who loaned you money. Only they can know whether they still feel ok or not.

To me respecting other people's generosity is important because we all might need to rely on that in a real dire emergency some day - pay it forward.

Seems to me like a situation where people will have different opinions.

The situation with your friend and concert ticket was a bit different. She didn’t ask you for money. You paid for your own ticket. Then when you cancel that trip, it becomes your responsibility. Typically if you can’t attend a concert that you purchased tickets for, you lose money. You can’t really ask people to give you money back for your ticket if you choose not to attend. It’s different than if you paid for your friend’s ticket.

I tried to Bold where the need to realize that you weren't in the wrong. The way Bills work sometimes is that dire straights can occur before the time of receiving a certain income replenishment, in your case, it was the financial aid refund check. If they had taken you up on your offer for repayment, then you wouldn't have had vacation money.

Thanks everyone for your replies! I am very grateful for everyone's opinions and I respect them all.

To clarify, the first time I was in dire financial straits was four years ago when it was spring and I hadn't landed a temp or retail job to cover the summer months for rent. I had applied for emergency assistance within my city's county social services (which allots only 1 months' of rent). So, while I was able to secure June's rent, I still had to worry about July and August and September's rent since I hadn't found a 3-6 month temp job, which I had successfully been doing for the three previous years. So, I reached out to friends and family four years ago with my dilemma and asked for just help with July, hoping that bought me time, which it did. I was still 'in the black' financially, as my job in education as a sub was going until the end of May. But I lived paycheck to paycheck (which everyone already knew).

When you live paycheck to paycheck, it's hard to plan ahead financially, especially saving even $50 a week when you need that to either pay for your gas or food or bills.

The second time (hopefully last time) was last summer. I had been fired from my education sub company (student assaulted me at the school, so the principal fired me and my placement company fired me -- this company has been sued by several other licensed education professionals for being fired after student has assaulted them, and made news headlines for it) in April, and had no money saved. I applied for county emergency assistance but was rejected since I was fired.

You can't receive county emergency rental assistance for a single adult, if you have no income or no employment. I don't make these ridiculous rules either. But they are what they are. So, I sat down with my landlord and explained my situation to him. I could break my lease and pay $1600 (which I clearly didn't have at that time). Or, I could wait 2 months until my lease was up, use $800 from my security deposit to cover half of the $1600 and come up with the other $800 I would owe, somehow.

So, I reached out to family and friends again, explained that I tried to get county assistance but didn't qualify since i was fired, was going to move in with my elderly mother while I look for a full time job, but that I needed help with the $800 I would owe, or my landlord would take me to small claims court and would legally 'evict' me, which would really make it difficult for me to rent an apartment again in the future, since i have a clean rental record (late payments, but no evictions). So, family and friends helped me come up with the $800. I asked them if they wanted me to repay them and they all said no.

Then, I was accepted into a second graduate program (student loans, who cares) and received my first financial aid refund check. I asked people if they wanted me to repay them since i got that financial aid refund money and they all said no. So, I took a vacation to visit friends out of state for two weeks. And no one accused me of being a liar, but I worried that they would roll their eyes and secretly think I was a liar who cried 'wolf' because this happened once already when I reached out for financial help. Clearly, being an education sub is not a source of stable income and I rolled the dice for 5 years doing it, with summer temp work not always coming through to help cover my rent and bills and gas and food expenses.

So, i'm in grad school again now, living with my elderly mother and while my temp work is spotty at best, at least I don't have to worry about paying rent (just car/car insurance, cell, food, gas, etc.) until I get back on my feet.

I would never be in this situation, had I found a full-time, stable job more than five years ago. I envy people who have stable jobs b/c their income is stable. Finding a full time job is not easy, and I don't like living with my elderly mother b/c she is mentally ill on top of having dementia, etc., but it is the price I have to pay, for not having a full time job. It's awful but I'm grateful that I'm not going from shelter to shelter or living in my car, b/c I very well could be. Again, I appreciate everyone's opinions in my thread.

I do agree that if you borrow money from someone, they do expect to be informed of how you spend their money. And since these two incidents happened in my 40s, well, I was mortified that I was in this situation to begin with. I can understand if I did this in my 20s, it wouldn't be judged as so irresponsible as I feel judged that way now, by my friends and family who all have stable incomes from their stable jobs. I have one friend who makes $75K a year so it's really mortifying to expose my vulnerability financially in front of people b/c they view you as being a 'loser' when I don't think I'm a loser. I think I just made some bad choices employment-wise and can't seem to turn it around to find a full time stable 12-month year job.

I think the point is being missed. You are given money for a certain purpose and the understanding it will be used for that. Using it to fritter away on yourself then is inappropriate. Coming into other money is the same thing. You have an obligation to use it properly or return the original to the gifter.

The understanding of the term dire-straights and sense of entitlement are these days becoming intertwined. Not being able to outfit yourself in the latest clothes is not an entitlement and not dire straights. Neither is not going on a vacation. Vacations (not vacation time that is different) are not a right. There is no entitlement to going on holiday. Not having the money to do so is not a situation of need. Not eating, not having money for rent, THAT is dire straights. The original poster was gifted money on the pretext they were in dire straights. By accepting the money, they entered an unwritten contract of obligation to the gifter to spend that money in a responsible fashion for those things absolutely required of them. That obligation extends beyond the change of circumstance. If the original poster's financial situation changed for the better then they were obligated to return it to the gifter. If the gifter out of etiquette and decency does not accept this then I think the original poster ought to be putting the funds aside for a future crisis and responsible use. Did the gifters know the original poster was going to fritter the money away on themselves when they turned down the offer of it's return? Likely not. I would have been fuming. How bloody irresponsible.

This is what I wanted to say, but was afraid to say because I didn't want to upset the OP or seem like I was shaming the OP. But I agree. There is an obligation to return the money, even if the loaners declined the return. It is the right & ethical thing to do. I am in agreement and feel that it was a mistake to go spend the money on oneself once money came in. Naturally, that will piss people off who then will be reluctant to loan money again. Chalk it up to a life lesson... we all do things that may not be totally right. And now I feel bad for being so honest.

I think people sometimes don’t want money back because it ensures that they won’t be asked for money ever again. And sometimes people, especially family, just don’t want the money back. It’s all right then. I’d probably send them a nice gift or a gift card after I started earning.

But I think the whole thing is a bit complicated because it wasn’t really money that Streetcar earned, it was financial aid disbursement which is a loan for educational purposes. It has to be paid back to the government or a bank. Using borrowed money to pay back some other borrowed money is not the best idea generally speaking. The whole situation is kind of different than if someone made all that money and didn’t pay their debt and instead went on vacation