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DechanDawa
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Default May 06, 2019 at 01:37 PM
  #1
I wrote my narcissistic friend an email explaining why I thought it best we did not have any email contact. I didn't say No Contact forever...but I did say no emails because she constantly uses email as a tool of manipulation.

Of course...there has been no reply to my email even though I asked her opinion on this matter. This is the typical, classic narcissistic "discard" - when they go completely silent.

This is her typical behavior...which I had come to expect as "normal" - telling myself, "Oh, she isn't replying because she got busy all of a sudden."

I never saw it for what it is...manipulation. This silence can last for days, weeks, or months.


Well, hopefully this is the final discard. When she hoovers back around in the future...I won't be lured back in. I will remain strong.


It will be hard, guys. You know, narcissists know how to "push buttons" and appeal to our deepest desires.


But I will remain strong. Today, however, I feel empty and scooped out. That's how a narcissist leaves their victims...completely deflated. And confused.

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Default May 06, 2019 at 01:53 PM
  #2
Recovery from a narcissistic connection is like recovering from a blood transfusion. You feel drained afterward but then your body resupplies you with the blood that was drained and you're back to your old self again.

Narcissists are emotional vampires. They drain you of your psychological and emotional energy and never replenish you. While I give myself permission to grieve the loss of my sister in my life (and most likely her children if they side with their mother and cut me out of their lives), I also feel a sense of freedom now, emotionally. I used to go to my sister for emotional support when she would flat out tell me, "maybe I'm not the best person to go to, b/c I don't agree with you about your decisions or choices." So, I feel a sense of independence b/c I am a codependent-in-recovery that is ongoing. I don't think I will ever fully heal my codependence, but learn to manage it, the same way you manage a health problem that is ongoing. She is a narcissist b/c she always gaslights me, never apologizes, counters, invalidates, the whole shebang. I'm already estranged from our brother. I feel like, I should have left my FOO 20 years ago and never looked back. So, now, moving forward, alone, I will have to seek out familial roles with new friendships I foster; that's my plan anyway. The whole point is, that as a survivor of narcissism, it's an adjustment and one that is very unpleasant but necessary for survival and happiness.

Hang in there. Grieve the loss of this toxic connection and don't look back.

10 Steps to Getting Your Life Back After Narcissistic Abuse

11 Manipulative Ways Narcissists, Sociopaths and Psychopaths Sabotage Their Victims (Part 2): Survivors Speak Out
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Default May 06, 2019 at 02:06 PM
  #3
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Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche View Post
Recovery from a narcissistic connection is like recovering from a blood transfusion. You feel drained afterward but then your body resupplies you with the blood that was drained and you're back to your old self again.

Narcissists are emotional vampires. They drain you of your psychological and emotional energy and never replenish you. While I give myself permission to grieve the loss of my sister in my life (and most likely her children if they side with their mother and cut me out of their lives), I also feel a sense of freedom now, emotionally. I used to go to my sister for emotional support when she would flat out tell me, "maybe I'm not the best person to go to, b/c I don't agree with you about your decisions or choices." So, I feel a sense of independence b/c I am a codependent-in-recovery that is ongoing. I don't think I will ever fully heal my codependence, but learn to manage it, the same way you manage a health problem that is ongoing. She is a narcissist b/c she always gaslights me, never apologizes, counters, invalidates, the whole shebang. I'm already estranged from our brother. I feel like, I should have left my FOO 20 years ago and never looked back. So, now, moving forward, alone, I will have to seek out familial roles with new friendships I foster; that's my plan anyway. The whole point is, that as a survivor of narcissism, it's an adjustment and one that is very unpleasant but necessary for survival and happiness.

Hang in there. Grieve the loss of this toxic connection and don't look back.

10 Steps to Getting Your Life Back After Narcissistic Abuse

11 Manipulative Ways Narcissists, Sociopaths and Psychopaths Sabotage Their Victims (Part 2): Survivors Speak Out






Thanks so much. You are right. It is about being co-dependent. They have their problems which we tend to overlook. Right now my friend is over drinking while on many medications...her husband is over drinking. It sounds like a mess. I don't enter into any co-dependency around substance abuse anymore. I step away.

It's more difficult for me to see how I become co-dependent to someone's narcissistic ********. But you are right. This is really more about me and my issues of allowing myself to become a victim.

Again, you are right about co-dependency being something that may just have to be managed. Because right now I am asking myself...why, why, why do I always end up being victimized by asshole narcissists? The answer, as you know, is because one of my parents was a malignant narcissist...and the other a co-dependent. Ta-dah!

Thank you for pointing out that the main issue here is really working harder to heal (or at least manage) my co-dependency. Of course. I have been sort of lost in a storm heretoday. Thanks for coming in with a lantern!

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Default May 06, 2019 at 02:16 PM
  #4
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Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche View Post
Recovery from a narcissistic connection is like recovering from a blood transfusion. You feel drained afterward but then your body resupplies you with the blood that was drained and you're back to your old self again.

Narcissists are emotional vampires. They drain you of your psychological and emotional energy and never replenish you. While I give myself permission to grieve the loss of my sister in my life (and most likely her children if they side with their mother and cut me out of their lives), I also feel a sense of freedom now, emotionally. I used to go to my sister for emotional support when she would flat out tell me, "maybe I'm not the best person to go to, b/c I don't agree with you about your decisions or choices." So, I feel a sense of independence b/c I am a codependent-in-recovery that is ongoing. I don't think I will ever fully heal my codependence, but learn to manage it, the same way you manage a health problem that is ongoing. She is a narcissist b/c she always gaslights me, never apologizes, counters, invalidates, the whole shebang. I'm already estranged from our brother. I feel like, I should have left my FOO 20 years ago and never looked back. So, now, moving forward, alone, I will have to seek out familial roles with new friendships I foster; that's my plan anyway. The whole point is, that as a survivor of narcissism, it's an adjustment and one that is very unpleasant but necessary for survival and happiness.

Hang in there. Grieve the loss of this toxic connection and don't look back.

10 Steps to Getting Your Life Back After Narcissistic Abuse

11 Manipulative Ways Narcissists, Sociopaths and Psychopaths Sabotage Their Victims (Part 2): Survivors Speak Out




Thanks for including these really great articles. I have bookmarked both of them. In one it says that narcissists will ruin your vacation. Well, that's timely because I am going on vacation near the narcissist. After initially planning to meet up I emailed her and said maybe it would better to not meet up. I am sure that made her angry. But I was thinking back to how she always adds a sour note to my holidays by being critical of me over nothing. I said to myself, "No, this time I don't want that negativity." So I did set a boundary and I am proud of that even thought it might have been what set off the narcissistic anger.

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Default May 06, 2019 at 02:18 PM
  #5
If there's one thing I love to do, it's research. I always look for articles online about how to solve problems.

I think for me, it boils down to patterns that get enmeshed that shouldn't be. The codependent pattern of the empathic, self-sacrificer, with the narcissist pattern of manipulative charmer. One person gives and perceives themself to be a failure when their narcissist doesn't reciprocate, but that is because the narcissist is just someone who takes and takes. Not exactly a mutually beneficial match of patterns. But the narcissist pretends to be someone who reciprocates b/c they know how to manipulate the codependent emotionally into not accepting any reciprocation. It's sick when you really disassemble the two patterns to see how each one is so dysfunctional when put together.

The Dance Between Codependents & Narcissists

Escaping the Codependent-Narcissist Trap | Psychology Today
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Default May 06, 2019 at 02:19 PM
  #6
I know how you feel. Mine went silent a while ago when I was replaced by a newer, more compliant, supply. It's like she never existed and the whole thing was some sort of fever dream. That's really hard to come to terms with when I think of all the promises and lies she told me. Like, how can someone go from spending nearly every moment with someone, to never even thinking about them? But I guess that sort of whiplash was always a part of the deal. One minuet she'd be telling me I was the love of her life and planning the future and marriage and all that stuff, then a few hours later, I'd be getting abusive emails and infidelity rubbed in my face because "I deserved it" for failing to meet the ever-changing, contradictory expectations she liked to hold over me to watch me dance.

I doubt that I'll hear anything from her again since if the new supply starts acting up and needs a bit of triangulation tactics to get him back into line, she has a more readily available sucker in the shape of her previous ex. But for what it's worth, the silence is better than the fury, although I still have nightmares and random anxiety spikes from time to time.
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Default May 06, 2019 at 02:22 PM
  #7
This site has some good articles about these sorts of abusive relationships. You should have a read if you are so inclined.

BPD and the Nice Guy Personality Type - The Nicola Method
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Default May 06, 2019 at 02:29 PM
  #8
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If there's one thing I love to do, it's research. I always look for articles online about how to solve problems.

I think for me, it boils down to patterns that get enmeshed that shouldn't be. The codependent pattern of the empathic, self-sacrificer, with the narcissist pattern of manipulative charmer. One person gives and perceives themself to be a failure when their narcissist doesn't reciprocate, but that is because the narcissist is just someone who takes and takes. Not exactly a mutually beneficial match of patterns. But the narcissist pretends to be someone who reciprocates b/c they know how to manipulate the codependent emotionally into not accepting any reciprocation. It's sick when you really disassemble the two patterns to see how each one is so dysfunctional when put together.

The Dance Between Codependents & Narcissists

Escaping the Codependent-Narcissist Trap | Psychology Today






Sigh. I am ashamed to admit how many times I have walked this road. Last week I went to a bookstore and gathered up all the books on narcissistic abuse and sat with my coffee and read through them all. I said to myself, "I know this stuff. I have been here before. Why did I forget????"

I think the answer is because...it happens on a very visceral, emotional level. This friend and I grew up together as children. Not just casual, either, but real best friends.


So the patterns you speak of were probably etched so deep. So very very deep.

You know, it is like the patterns that happens with a sibling.


I think what I need to do is more research on how to heal my co-dependency. Take the spotlight off the narcissist.

I can't thank you enough for your comments.


It is really my co-dependency issues that are causing me to be a victim. Such as (I will just use one as an example) the need for validation. Something I crave because I never got it in my family of origin. And you can see it with narcissistic friends...hey play up your faults and ignore you accomplishments.

Okay...spotlight off the narcissist and onto how I am playing out my co-dependency patterns. Thank you so much. This has been so helpful...like a plasma transfusion!

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Default May 06, 2019 at 02:58 PM
  #9
Oh I do it too -- I go to the library and sit down with a pile of books and sift through them to pick and choose which chapters apply to my life. Then, like you commented, I remind myself that "hey, I already know this on a basic level, guess I need the validation and a refresher b/c I did forget." It's very empowering to read.

I know my codependency will always be my achilles heel with narcissists and superficial people. There is no cure for mine bc its so deeply ingrained. But, I will give myself credit that now I trust myself more than I used to when it comes to recognizing patterns in other people that act as a warning sign, not to engage with them into a relationship or friendship.

Am I always correct with my intuition? No, but I'd rather trust myself first and then later admit I was wrong, then vice versa which is what I grew up doing: apologizing without processing the situation and my involvement first and what I contributed.

Some introspection is good, but too much then it becomes perseveration (aka "dwelling") and dwelling on the past is not helpful because we know we can't change our past.

I don't think you need to switch between healing yourself and staying informed on narcissism. You can do both concurrently.
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Default May 06, 2019 at 03:09 PM
  #10
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Oh I do it too -- I go to the library and sit down with a pile of books and sift through them to pick and choose which chapters apply to my life. Then, like you commented, I remind myself that "hey, I already know this on a basic level, guess I need the validation and a refresher b/c I did forget." It's very empowering to read.

I know my codependency will always be my achilles heel with narcissists and superficial people. There is no cure for mine bc its so deeply ingrained. But, I will give myself credit that now I trust myself more than I used to when it comes to recognizing patterns in other people that act as a warning sign, not to engage with them into a relationship or friendship.

Am I always correct with my intuition? No, but I'd rather trust myself first and then later admit I was wrong, then vice versa which is what I grew up doing: apologizing without processing the situation and my involvement first and what I contributed.

Some introspection is good, but too much then it becomes perseveration (aka "dwelling") and dwelling on the past is not helpful because we know we can't change our past.

I don't think you need to switch between healing yourself and staying informed on narcissism. You can do both concurrently.




Yeah, you're right. But another thing that happened is that my narcissistic friend was berating me because I was feeling more confident...and ... I never take her advice. I point out that her advice is mostly unsolicited...and not helpful...because she just throws things out without knowing a situation fully. (To myself I think her advice is ridiculous and uniformed.)


So what does this mean? Well, beware of appearing confident around a narcissist. They don't want you feeling confident.

So if I wanted to say in a nutshell what happened between me and this friend is that she was not wanting me to change and be more confident.

This is a left-over relationship. I got rid of a lot of toxic people. I am a bit lonely. And my friend preys on that loneliness.

I personally think it is better to work on my co-dependency issues. Because the healthier I am the less it will attract narcissists. I have found this to be true. I haven't attracted any new narcissists in several years.

Also...I really hate reading about narcissists. I already know it but revisiting it too much is very depressing. Their actions create a lot of evil in the world.


You know the story about vampires. They can't come into your home unless you invite them. Well, I don't like inviting them into my mindstream, either.

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Default May 06, 2019 at 03:16 PM
  #11
I think that while it's good to learn about behavior patterns that narcissists exhibit that can be hurtful, it's important not to just decide a person that hurts you in some way is a narcissist. There are different challenges people can have that can result in that person self protecting with behaviors that can seem self serving and cold. Remember, we all have "some" narcissism and that means some people may have certain behaviors that might seem narcissistic but that person is not so much so that that person is "disordered" and not able to have any caring or empathy.

The most important thing to pay attention to is that if a person consistently disrespects your personal boundaries, despite your effort to express your boundaries then it's best to distance yourself from this person.
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Default May 06, 2019 at 03:39 PM
  #12
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I think that while it's good to learn about behavior patterns that narcissists exhibit that can be hurtful, it's important not to just decide a person that hurts you in some way is a narcissist. There are different challenges people can have that can result in that person self protecting with behaviors that can seem self serving and cold. Remember, we all have "some" narcissism and that means some people may have certain behaviors that might seem narcissistic but that person is not so much so that that person is "disordered" and not able to have any caring or empathy.

The most important thing to pay attention to is that if a person consistently disrespects your personal boundaries, despite your effort to express your boundaries then it's best to distance yourself from this person.




Well, I have a few threads going on this situation. This person exhibits all the very classic traits of a toxic narcissist...never apologizes, gaslights, cannot take any criticism yet dishes it out, refuses therapy, has substance abuse issues with alcohol (new), hmmm...triangulates, lies, vanishes with silent treatment than reappears, hoovering, love bombing with gifts and cards. No, it is quite classic. However, they are a covert narcissist and that can be tricky because they appear to be empathic but really are the opposite.


I haven't just decided that someone is a narcissist because they hurt me. This is a decades long friendship and I have co-dependently tried to "manage" it and now I am fed up.

But I will say this...it someone "hurts you" you had better look pretty closely at the situation. Family and friends who love me never "hurt me." They may have constructive advice to give...and there may be conflict...but in healthy relationships all always ends well and happily...without lasting wounds. With a narcissist the sting lasts forever and the wounds stay open and keep bleeding.


It is very important to look closely...and yes, narcissists who are covert are a bit tricky. Ross Rosenburg wrote a book about covert narcissists. They can be ministers, doctors, counselors...people in the helping professions who appear very compassionate.


I don't like the phrase "healthy narcissism" nor do I think it necessary for us to retain a bit of narcissism even under duress --- as we should have outgrown narcissism by age five. It should be replaced by confidence, self-esteem...and most of all, empathy. I have found that people with narcissistic tendencies do actually act like five-year-olds i.e name calling, flying into rages when they don't get their way etc.

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Default May 06, 2019 at 05:47 PM
  #13
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I know how you feel. Mine went silent a while ago when I was replaced by a newer, more compliant, supply. It's like she never existed and the whole thing was some sort of fever dream. That's really hard to come to terms with when I think of all the promises and lies she told me. Like, how can someone go from spending nearly every moment with someone, to never even thinking about them? But I guess that sort of whiplash was always a part of the deal. One minuet she'd be telling me I was the love of her life and planning the future and marriage and all that stuff, then a few hours later, I'd be getting abusive emails and infidelity rubbed in my face because "I deserved it" for failing to meet the ever-changing, contradictory expectations she liked to hold over me to watch me dance.

I doubt that I'll hear anything from her again since if the new supply starts acting up and needs a bit of triangulation tactics to get him back into line, she has a more readily available sucker in the shape of her previous ex. But for what it's worth, the silence is better than the fury, although I still have nightmares and random anxiety spikes from time to time.






I have been there romantically, too. Hugs to you. It is so hard. Sometimes the ex will circle back and hoover between other people. I had a person stalk me first physically then kept leaving phone messages because I refused to change the number of my business phone. Just when I thought it was going to go on forever it stopped. I agree that the silence is better. Much better.

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Default May 07, 2019 at 12:56 AM
  #14
It's crazy how upset I am about all of this. Every time I get in my car while I am driving I start talking aloud cursing out this so-called friend. She got very nasty and it was so shocking like her true colors popped out.

I am also angry at myself. I knew she was treating me poorly and it had become especially bad in the last few years...but I kept hiding the truth from myself. I didn't want to be confronting because I knew what would happen.

Narcissists and their temper tantrums! That's what happens when you cross them. They get into a rage and then discard you and the whole thing is humiliating.

I NEVER EVER EVER again want to have a narcissistic friend. NEVER.

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Default May 07, 2019 at 09:52 AM
  #15
Okay so I go on Facebook (I am rarely on there) and discover the narcissistic person has posted likes on several of my posts. This is like immediately hoovering me after abusing me in emails for a week. So nervy.

I was going to block her from posting on my timeline...but I decided I would just ignore her if she showed up on my timeline. I doubted she would/

See...this is another way they mess with your mind. They act like nothing happened...like the major breach of the friendship never happened.

It's okay. I am still going to do the Grey Rock technique...which is...ignore and No Contact. Her likes on my posts are just like her pissing on my territory. The games narcs play. It is exhausting.

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Default May 07, 2019 at 10:23 AM
  #16
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I am also angry at myself. I knew she was treating me poorly and it had become especially bad in the last few years...but I kept hiding the truth from myself. I didn't want to be confronting because I knew what would happen.

Narcissists and their temper tantrums! That's what happens when you cross them. They get into a rage and then discard you and the whole thing is humiliating.
Truth. Mine stole over £500 of weed I'd put aside, while I was giving her free access to smoke whatever she wanted from the cheap stuff (she smoked at least 1K of that). When I was completely out of smoke and I went to fetch the reserve jar and found it empty,

I had to make a choice: confront her about the theft and get met with denial and anger and fight for the next couple of weeks about it, or accept that it was gone and forget about it. I chose the latter because I figured that my relationship was more valuable than weed (the opposite was true in her mind apparently). She asked to roll a joint from the dust left in the jar and I said that I was going to save it for myself. Of course, she kicked off about that and we had a fight for a few weeks because of how "selfish" I am and what a "bad partner" I was.

The mind of these people is bonkers. Who robs you blind, then gets angry because you don't give them the change in your pocket too. And what sort of love blind idiot was I to overlook and rationalise away such obvious contempt?
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Default May 07, 2019 at 10:25 AM
  #17
Good job, DechanDawa! You're taking ALL of the necessary steps to heal and to move on! I'm SURE that you'll like a new person i no time! It's crazy how much can our lives improve by just avoiding toxic people and I'm sure you'll realize it VERY soon! Please keep us updated if you can and want to, ok? We'll ALWAYS be here for you! Sending many hugs to you, DechanDawa!
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Default May 07, 2019 at 03:04 PM
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I know people would suggest I block her on Facebook or even delete her as a friend in FB. But that would be creating drama and I am not going to do that.

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Default May 07, 2019 at 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JadedEmpath View Post
Truth. Mine stole over £500 of weed I'd put aside, while I was giving her free access to smoke whatever she wanted from the cheap stuff (she smoked at least 1K of that). When I was completely out of smoke and I went to fetch the reserve jar and found it empty,

I had to make a choice: confront her about the theft and get met with denial and anger and fight for the next couple of weeks about it, or accept that it was gone and forget about it. I chose the latter because I figured that my relationship was more valuable than weed (the opposite was true in her mind apparently). She asked to roll a joint from the dust left in the jar and I said that I was going to save it for myself. Of course, she kicked off about that and we had a fight for a few weeks because of how "selfish" I am and what a "bad partner" I was.

The mind of these people is bonkers. Who robs you blind, then gets angry because you don't give them the change in your pocket too. And what sort of love blind idiot was I to overlook and rationalise away such obvious contempt?




Live and learn. Toxic narcissists (especially in a romantic relationship) will rob us blind, damage our property in their rages, and worse. Consider that you were lucky it ended before anything really bad happened. But it shatters our self-esteem. We have to learn self-protection so as not to let it ever happen again. I had someone kick in the side of my vehicle in a rage. I had to have thousands of dollars worth of body work done. For a year I looked at that big dent in my truck and finally I couldn't stand it anymore and had it fixed. Luckily insurance paid for most of it. I also filed a police report. But by then the toxic narcissist was long gone....wrecking havoc in someone else's life. Consider yourself lucky if they left without doing more damage.

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Default May 07, 2019 at 03:12 PM
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyCheeky View Post
Good job, DechanDawa! You're taking ALL of the necessary steps to heal and to move on! I'm SURE that you'll like a new person i no time! It's crazy how much can our lives improve by just avoiding toxic people and I'm sure you'll realize it VERY soon! Please keep us updated if you can and want to, ok? We'll ALWAYS be here for you! Sending many hugs to you, DechanDawa!


Ah, thanks MC, dear friend. I am working hard at this but it still stings.

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