[DechanDawa]

Last year I wrote about a friend who is a "whiner and complainer" on another thread. I just went back and reread that thread.

Here we are a whole year later. Nothing changed. It only got worse.

What is "new" is I think she is a toxic narcissist. The red flags? She never apologizes, she gaslights me, she is super critical, every single thing is about drama, she vanishes then suddenly re-appears, she continually tries to triangulate, and also tries to separate me from my siblings by making them out to be the arch enemy. On top of that she is drinking while taking anti-depressants.

She sounds awful...but she can also appear as caring, interested, and generous.

I now think she has been using me as narcissistic supply.

How could this have been going on for decades?

I think my own problems served to cause me to become more aware.

It hurts...but maybe I am growing and healing. I just don't want abusive friends in my life.

[DechanDawa]

Okay I just can't believe this person turned out to be a narcissist. However, I think she is a covert narcissist so I didn't see it. If anyone has had experience with a covert narcissist I would like to hear about what happened. Did you eventually go no contact?

[Moose72]

I wouldnt be friends with a "covert narcissist" who gaslights. Nope!

[DechanDawa]

I am really in shock because everything about the covert narcissist fits her...but I just didn't see it.

[DechanDawa]

I guess covert and inverted when referring to narcissism aren't really clinical terms. I wouldn't say she is a malignant narcissist because she isn't sociopathic. I guess she is just your garden variety narcissist. The kind you can put up with until you yourself are super stressed.

Not only that. Part of my own healing journey is that I am just no longer able to tolerate abusive relationships. I know that is a good sign...but all in all, recognizing long standing relationships as toxic is a shock in and of itself.

I had a toxic narcissist as a friend for seven years before I figured it out. The only way to deal with it is to go no contact and cut them out of your life entirely. I know that may sound harsh, but really, if she's toxic to you, it is for your own health. You can also ease out by not replying as much, not seeing them and then eventually going to no contact. However you choose, I wish you well. Toxic narcissists never get better.

[MickeyCheeky]

I completely understand what you mean, DechanDawa!!!!! It must certainly be a shock for you to discover the "true nature" of someone you've been knowing for so long! Please don't blame yourself because of it! Some narcissists can be VERY good at hiding their nature! It's not your fault! I'm really happy that you're acknowledging her behavior, though, and I do believe that you already know what to do next! I completely agree with what all the other wise, wonderful posters have already wisely said better than I ever could! Just cut her out of your life if you can! You deserve MUCH, MUCH better friends and you deserve to be around people that will truly care about you! Please do that if you can, for your own care and health! I'm so sorry that you're going through all of this! We'll always be here for you, of course, and we'll ALWAYS stick around for you! I PROMISE YOU THAT!!!!! PLEASE REMEMBER ALL OF THAT BECAUSE IT IS TRUE!!!!! My ears and my inbox are always open for you, my friend! Just PM me if you need it, ok? I'm REALLY SO HAPPY that you're back!!!!! Sending many hugs to you, DechanDawa!!!!!

[Iloivar]

@golden_eve

Im curious as to why you opt to suggest gradually lessening contact instead of blocking all communication with their friend instantly. Which is what I personally suggest for the OP.

Because from my perspective, there's a chance the "friend" might contact them again and not take the hint. It needlessly prolongs the "friendship" imo. While an instant block can't be misinterpeted and will get things over with instantly.

And either of these two options there's a chance that the friend may not react well and take it out on you

I only ask so that the op can weigh both our suggestions and take what they deem the best course of action for themselves.

I second lloivar's "instant block" suggestion on social media of your friend who you feel is a narcissist. Who cares - btw - what her reaction is regardless of whichever method you choose, to cut contact with her. That should be the last thing on your mind. Putting her emotional needs above yours -- by worrying about how to cut off contact with her -- is exactly the opposite of good self care.

I just blocked my sister and her husband on FB and I didn't give either of them a "heads up" message first. They already KNOW that my sister and I have a relationship strained beyond repair, so to point out the obvious again to them both in a message would have made me feel like a weakling.

I was in a toxic friendship with a woman for about 7-8 years and it was very one-sided; always about her emotional needs and never about mine. I cut her out by blocking her on FB and that was over ten years ago.

Sometimes, you HAVE to just cut people out of your life to save yourself from their toxic behavior. Whether or not you need to announce to them, "hey, you are such a horrible person I'm cutting you out" is up to you.

The toxic person already doesn't respect you, which is why they are toxic to you.

Who cares how she takes the news that you are through with her.

You should be celebrating that you're done with her, relieved that she'll be out of your life soon. That opens up another space in your heart for a much healthier friendship with someone new.

[sarahsweets]

Originally Posted by Iloivar

@golden_eve

Im curious as to why you opt to suggest gradually lessening contact instead of blocking all communication with their friend instantly. Which is what I personally suggest for the OP.

Because from my perspective, there's a chance the "friend" might contact them again and not take the hint. It needlessly prolongs the "friendship" imo. While an instant block can't be misinterpeted and will get things over with instantly.

And either of these two options there's a chance that the friend may not react well and may do something.

I only ask so that the op can weigh both our suggestions and take what they deem the best course of action for themselves.

I feel like Eve presented both options and suggested going no contact at first. I feel like she was just sharing what had happened to her.

Originally Posted by Iloivar

@golden_eve

Im curious as to why you opt to suggest gradually lessening contact instead of blocking all communication with their friend instantly. Which is what I personally suggest for the OP.

Because from my perspective, there's a chance the "friend" might contact them again and not take the hint. It needlessly prolongs the "friendship" imo. While an instant block can't be misinterpeted and will get things over with instantly.

And either of these two options there's a chance that the friend may not react well and may do something.

I only ask so that the op can weigh both our suggestions and take what they deem the best course of action for themselves.

Oh. I only mentioned it because some people are not comfortable with the instant block and cease and desist all contact. I also mentioned it in case she felt like she was being cruel, which many ppl do. It’s up to the OP to determine what she’s comfortable with. As Sarah points out, my first recommendation is going no contact.

[Fuzzybear]

I have found that someone who never apologises, is very critical etc, tries to triangulate and those other things are definitely red flags. I wouldn’t want someone like that as a friend.

I think you are growing and healing as you’re recognising these red flags

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by golden_eve

I had a toxic narcissist as a friend for seven years before I figured it out. The only way to deal with it is to go no contact and cut them out of your life entirely. I know that may sound harsh, but really, if she's toxic to you, it is for your own health. You can also ease out by not replying as much, not seeing them and then eventually going to no contact. However you choose, I wish you well. Toxic narcissists never get better.

Thank you for your advice, especially the part about toxic narcissists never change. No contact is harsh but I see no alternative at this point. Thank you for your helpful comment.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by MickeyCheeky

I completely understand what you mean, DechanDawa!!!!! It must certainly be a shock for you to discover the "true nature" of someone you've been knowing for so long! Please don't blame yourself because of it! Some narcissists can be VERY good at hiding their nature! It's not your fault! I'm really happy that you're acknowledging her behavior, though, and I do believe that you already know what to do next! I completely agree with what all the other wise, wonderful posters have already wisely said better than I ever could! Just cut her out of your life if you can! You deserve MUCH, MUCH better friends and you deserve to be around people that will truly care about you! Please do that if you can, for your own care and health! I'm so sorry that you're going through all of this! We'll always be here for you, of course, and we'll ALWAYS stick around for you! I PROMISE YOU THAT!!!!! PLEASE REMEMBER ALL OF THAT BECAUSE IT IS TRUE!!!!! My ears and my inbox are always open for you, my friend! Just PM me if you need it, ok? I'm REALLY SO HAPPY that you're back!!!!! Sending many hugs to you, DechanDawa!!!!!

Thanks, M! It's always good to come pack to Psych Central for a dose of sanity.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Iloivar

@golden_eve

Im curious as to why you opt to suggest gradually lessening contact instead of blocking all communication with their friend instantly. Which is what I personally suggest for the OP.

Because from my perspective, there's a chance the "friend" might contact them again and not take the hint. It needlessly prolongs the "friendship" imo. While an instant block can't be misinterpeted and will get things over with instantly.

And either of these two options there's a chance that the friend may not react well and take it out on you

I only ask so that the op can weigh both our suggestions and take what they deem the best course of action for themselves.

OP here. Well, yes, this is the main point. Thanks for addressing it. This "friend" always vanishes and re-appears. When I am at my most vulnerable she will "discard" me. Then months later a beautiful card or gift will arrive in the mail. Or there will be an email about how much she cares. Or she will start commenting on my Facebook timeline.


Now I realize she always returned not because she cared but because she was tapping me for narcissistic supply.


Dealing with toxic narcissists is to me, hell on earth created by people.

Right now she's in "discard" mode. I sent her an email and she is not replying. This is pretty typical. I guess I will have to do No Contact. There really is no other way.

The myth that she is an old, dear, caring friend is just that...a myth. It is something I was blind to because I didn't want to see she was using that narrative to get "supply."

It's pretty harsh. I am tired of damage control. I see No Contact is the only way out of this. I am so grateful for Psych Central. Many minds of sanity here!

[DechanDawa]

Wise advice, here. I don't think telling these people why you are fading them is a good idea. They just take it as narcissistic injury and it infuriates them. I tried emailing my friend with very specific examples of things she was doing that were affecting me negatively. She just threw it back in my face, gaslighting me, saying I was making things up, calling me "mental."


What I have learned is that without knowing it I have been"walking on eggshells" with my friend for decades. This is the first time I have tried to be honest with her...and it has been a major storm.

I think my behavior came from wanting to believe the "myth" that this was a loyal, dear friend. It was just a myth. Once you wake up to that fact you can't go back.

I have one sibling who I had to cut out of my life and there has been no fall-out from it. He simply faded out forever. I no longer miss him because his personality is fake and so every interaction we had.

I know the good news is that I am getting healthier. But right now it still hurts. Thank you for your deeply helpful comment.

Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche

I second lloivar's "instant block" suggestion on social media of your friend who you feel is a narcissist. Who cares - btw - what her reaction is regardless of whichever method you choose, to cut contact with her. That should be the last thing on your mind. Putting her emotional needs above yours -- by worrying about how to cut off contact with her -- is exactly the opposite of good self care.

I just blocked my sister and her husband on FB and I didn't give either of them a "heads up" message first. They already KNOW that my sister and I have a relationship strained beyond repair, so to point out the obvious again to them both in a message would have made me feel like a weakling.

I was in a toxic friendship with a woman for about 7-8 years and it was very one-sided; always about her emotional needs and never about mine. I cut her out by blocking her on FB and that was over ten years ago.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sometimes, you HAVE to just cut people out of your life to save yourself from their toxic behavior. Whether or not you need to announce to them, "hey, you are such a horrible person I'm cutting you out" is up to you.

The toxic person already doesn't respect you, which is why they are toxic to you.

Who cares how she takes the news that you are through with her.

You should be celebrating that you're done with her, relieved that she'll be out of your life soon. That opens up another space in your heart for a much healthier friendship with someone new.

[DechanDawa]

[QUOTE=golden_eve;6523903]Oh. I only mentioned it because some people are not comfortable with the instant block and cease and desist all contact. I also mentioned it in case she felt like she was being cruel, which many ppl do. It’s up to the OP to determine what she’s comfortable with. As Sarah points out, my first recommendation is going no contact.[/QUOTE



Thank you. I understand. I am going back to my home of origin and was going to meet up with this person and her husband. I then emailed her that I thought not meeting would best for now. It wasn't an out-and-out No Contact...but it was pretty extreme. We always meet up when in the same geographic area.

This was a big step for me. This is a very old relationship.

I am absolutely certain she will "loop back" in the future...sending me expensive cards and gifts. This is always, always, always what she does.

It will be very weird to maintain No Contact but frankly my life is way to stressful for this. It seems unhealthy to continue on with this so-called friendship. As well, I think she has some substance abuse problems at this time (drinking on top of anti-depressants) and as I don't engage with substance abuse I don't want to be around it. I told her that in an email and it probably made her angry.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by Fuzzybear

I have found that someone who never apologises, is very critical etc, tries to triangulate and those other things are definitely red flags. I wouldn’t want someone like that as a friend.

I think you are growing and healing as you’re recognising these red flags

Thank you, dear Fuzzy. Sometimes healing hurts. That's weird. But you know, these people can also be very charming. She sends me lovely gifts out of the blue, and lovely notes and cards. That's what narcissists do to lure you back in. It is really difficult to get a handle on the dynamics which is why I brought it to Psych Central. Thank you, dear beary friend!

[DechanDawa]

You know, guys, in life friends come and go, and I have always been okay with that.

This friend has always, always, always been there...saying things like we are old "golden" friends...blah, blah, blah.

I always felt she was just a very "loyal" friend.

But as I progressed on my own healing journey I started to question..."Why is this person always popping up with drama, drama, drama?" I also started to see how one-sided this relationship was...and how she wasn't really a constant friend because there would be many instances where she would disappear...then reappear months later.

Guys, toxic narcissism is no joke. I truly believe it is absolutely the worst human scourge. We see it now all over social media. It is like it has been okay to be a narcissist.

It isn't.

I know I sound pretty stupid about this friend. I actually had to come on Psych Central and read another long thread I started about this same friend...to take me out of denial. I mean I saw how a year ago I was saying the exact same things about this friend.

That's why it is pretty cool to be a long-standing member of Psych Central. You can really track your progress and the members here, all you guys, are simply outstanding. It is so beautiful to come on here and find such caring people who are really dedicated to getting better.

I will probably stay No Contact. It will be extremely difficult. But if I break down and do something like send her a birthday card or something she will just interpret it as me being an "easy mark."

To health! Right now I feel heart-broken, but it is over a myth I had to break up into little pieces. It was never a healthy friendship and that is the myth. Her loyalty was just her circling back time after time for more narcissistic supply.

[ssintas]

Sorry to hear you're going through this. I used to have a very narcissistic friend who could be so awful but then so lovely! It's very confusing. She's been out of my life for a few months now and I'm feeling much better. Are you cutting this person out of your life forever? It may be very difficult since you mentioned knowing her for a decade. Whatever you decide to do, stay strong and good luck. Hope you're doing well.