Two Controlling Girlfriends Who Talk Down to Me

IRL, I have two of my oldest college girlfriends who are both domineering personality types, one is very controlling of others, and the other one is just plain domineering.

They both kind of talk down to me, as though I am too naive about the world and how it works, and as though I don't know how to handle any of life's problems.

However, I have always worked out my biggest life problems. I have always landed on my feet through troubled times. I have always navigated my way through life on my own, as well as through the help of professionals, my family and closest friends.

The last phone conversation I had with the one who is very domineering, she kept saying to me, "do you understand? Do you understand?" As though I am a child who may not understand and who has NO comprehension. It was very demeaning to me, and I wish I had confronted her on it at the time.

She jumped in with very unsolicited advice and coaching about a work issue I was having. I didn't even ask for advice, yet she assumed that she must "educate" me on the work world, how it works, and how to navigate it.

I've been working full-time most of my adult life, and I am 48 years old! That means I've been working for the last 25 years! I have been around the block for a long time now. I certainly can handle myself professionally and navigate the work environment.

The next time I speak with either one of these women, I want to confront the issue with them.... and let them know that in fact, I CAN HANDLE IT, whatever it is that I am facing.

Most importantly, I don't need either one of them coaching me and/or telling me what to do, which is what they both LOVE to do with me. It is very irksome.

Anyone have any advice on the best way to approach this with them? Without getting defensive and angry?

Do you think confronting them about a past event is the way to go or should you wait until the next patronizing, controlling comments happen and address it then? I am just wondering if they will be receptive to something that already happened and something they may have already forgotten or shelved. Its important to you for sure but they might downplay it or negate it because to them its in the past. Its a tough spot. There are people I have had to confront about past events and people that I have had to confront because of something current and its gone both ways. In some cases they are actually unaware and apologetic about something and in other cases they are defensive. I have found that people are more likely to get defensive about something in the past verses being called out on it as its happening. But at the same time I understand your need to address something in the past to prevent it from happening in the future. I get wanting to stand up for yourself and your ability to have a solid work ethic in order to prevent anymore crap in the future- I am not sure what the best course of action is. I adore you though eve and offer my support because you seem capable enough of dealing with your own ***** and do not need anyone talking down to you.

Aww thanks Sarahsweets! You're one of my favorites on here!

I should clarify: I don't want to confront on anything already passed. I meant the next time it happens...... I want to be able to say it right then and there in the moment. I am typically thrown off and clam up when it's in the moment.

I am still learning how to have a voice and be assertive without seeming defensive or angry about something.

Good news is: I am not angry about this anymore. I just want to confront it when it happens again.

It must be VERY annoying to put up with such TERRIBLE behavior, golden_eve! Good on you for stading up for yourself! I completely agree with what sarahsweets has already wisely said better than I ever could, so I won't repeat it too much! I completely agree with her that perhaps it's best to wait until they do it again! That's just our opinion of course! Just do whathever you feel like doing! Just prepare to face the fact that may not listen to what you have to say or deny it ALL! In that case, I'm sure you know what to do! Just cut off contacts with them! Life is too short to deal with toxic people as well! Keep us updated and let us know how things are going for you, ok? WE ALL CARE ABOUT YOU! I PROMISE YOU ALL OF THAT BECAUSE IT IS TRUE! PLEASE REMEMBER ALL OF THAT AS MUCH AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN BECAUSE IT IS TRUE! WISH YOU GOOD LUCK! Let us know how things are going for you! Sending many hugs to you, golden_eve!

Aww thanks Mickey! I don’t view either of them as toxic though. They just are domineering and think that their advice is best and that I can’t solve problems on my own

I am learning how to strengthen my boundaries and how to not let others try to control and dominate me. Many try.

Oh, I know how you feel; I find this behavior so annoying. I hate unsolicited advice. Most of the time, if I'm talking to a friend about how I feel, it's about how I feel about something and needing my feelings acknowledged and not asking for advice. I've learned to start conversations by saying "I don't need advice, fyi, I just need you to tell me if I'm like being totally unreasonable in how I feel about this." or something of that sort to clarify to them what I need from them. This often helps. If they start to give advice, I usually politely interrupt and say I appreciate you are trying to help but that's not what I need right now, and clarify again what I'm looking for.

I think your idea to basically set the boundary next time it happens is a good idea. I would just be tactful and polite about, as these are friends.

The other thing for me that happens is like when I'm having a panic attack or flashback or some other symptom, whether it's physical or psychological, and someone will basically start to interrogate me about what I've done or not done. For example, have you called your doctor, did you take your meds, you should try this, have you tried that, what about XYZ? With my history of medical abuse, even though they may be trying to help, it just makes me feel like I"m being called a faker. I've been able, lately, to get enough control/calm over myself to say, "I'm trying to deal with myself right now, I can't answer these questions, what I need is just some acknowledgment that I feel bad." Or, if I am getting more upset in addition to whatever symptoms, I just excuse myself from the conversation as "too unwell" to engage in it right now.

I think what's hard is trying to maintain compassion that the person is trying to help in the way that they know how. They don't recall/realize/know that they're talking to an abuse victim or someone with PTSD and that their tactics are actually harmful versus helpful. It's totally frustrating, and sometimes I just want to lose patience and scream at them, but if they are a good friend, someone who is worth keeping around and talking to about problems at all, then they'll want to know how they can help.

I have one close friend where we have been sorting out how to best help each other of the last year because we realize we need different things so our natural reactions are different. It's been an illuminating process.

I also think, if these two girlfriends can't respect this boundary with you, then maybe they are moved to the acquaintance category and you don't share certain stuff with them.

The other thing is that it's okay sometimes, depending on the person/conversation, to just bluntly say, "I'm just talking about how I feel, I don't need advice. Thanks." And leave it at that. I mean, you don't have to tiptoe. Sometimes people just rudely assume you need all sorts of advice. Example, I once twisted my knee unclipping from my bike. I was on an endurance race, and I mentioned it on my Twitter account. This acquaintance I know started sending me email after email about how my form was incorrect and that's why my knee was hurting (that was incorrect and had nothing to do with how I twisted my knee) and then got angrier and angrier when I said "thanks but no thanks" to his offers for coaching me. I hadn't asked for his help. I had just posted a status update. This was blatant unsolicited advice. It sounds like with your GFs that they may think you are asking for advice, since you are talking about work gripes. So you could start by clarifying at the beginning of your conversation that you're just talking, don't need advice, but this is just what's going on. I think the key too is, do they even bother to ask you what you want to do about it first before laying their "suggestions" on you?

So, that's just some ideas, but I think it's perfectly fine for you to lay down these boundaries. My only real suggestion is to try to be gentle while you're doing it to preserve the relationships. In their mind they are just trying to help. They just don't realize how it comes off to you.

Seesaw

Thanks Seesaw! Hugs.

Your suggestions are very good ones. I like the notion of stating upfront that I don’t need advice yet am just informing and talking about what’s going on. These two are very good friends of mine. We have a long history and a lot of great memories. I think they believe that since I’ve had mental health issues, that it means I cannot handle life’s challenges and obstacles. Especially since I had been hospitalized five years ago. I think they assume I must be inept to handle things myself.

I will be gentle. My tendency is to react out of frustration and anger because of the assumptions. But I really like your suggestion of stating it upfront so it’s clear from the start.

That’s pretty amazing that you and your friend are working out how best to support one another. And that social media guy about your bike accident? Ridiculous! Who asked him for his opinions on what you did wrong? People never cease to amaze me.

Oh yes, and the bike guy, when I told him thanks but no thanks repeatedly and then had to firmly say, "stop contacting me about this" he started calling me mentally ill and all sorts of crap because I didn't want his help. And, mind you, this was maybe 5 years before my PTSD became very severe, but regardless, to call someone mentally ill because they don't want your unsolicited advice...seriously?

That’s abominable. Wow. He doesn’t sound stable or mentally well himself.

"I'm trying to deal with myself right now, I can't answer these questions,

I like this very much Seesaw. I've started suffering from acute asthma and... find it hard to EXPLAIN to the medical profession that I avoid most of them while sick because NOT-BEING-ABLE-TO-BREATHE means being unable to speak or answer their questions. Medical professionals here are mostly trained on a tick-box routine and can't cope with real life imperfect situations, although there is about 1% who can. A humorous example is when I broke all the bones in my foot and the medical intake person told me that he couldn't process me unless I stepped up onto the weighing machine. It was ludicrous, but also he was a new intake person trying avoid any black marks coming back at him from headquarters - so he had his own stressors.

"I'm trying to deal with myself right now, and can't answer your questions" is a useful assertiveness statement for many of my life situations!!! Thank you for finding this for me.

One of the things I noticed about myself is that I tend to be caring and understanding when it comes to the emotional challenges of others. Unfortunately, I ended up with individuals who were themselves not the same way. I had friends that would call me to ask me how I was but what they really wanted was to talk about THEIR emotional challenges and needs. For the longest time it was very hard for me to share my own personal challenges and I just began to feel so vulnerable like it was wrong. I had not realized that the reason I feel that way is because of the people around me in my life that needed to dump their emotional issues on me, and yet could not do the same for me and even would actually get short with me, even say "keep it short", when these very same people would not feel that applied to them. Yes, I have had friends where I really had to keep it about THEM and be very careful about how I would respond other wise I would get their anger dumped on me too.

I had a friend that I helped a lot and when I was really struggling she tried to be helpful but did get impatient. When I developed ptsd, this friend could not understand WHY conversations simply could not completely revolve around HER. What I finally discovered in the worst way was how angry this friend would get when I helped others and talked to them too and respected their feelings too. I went out for my birthday with her and we sat at a bar and there was a nice couple I had met before and we all started talking and my friend began to need the entire conversation centered around her and her feelings about things. She began to get political and it started to upset this other couple and my friend just would not take the hint to let go and talk about something else. I managed to pull the conversation to a newer topic thinking that would get things back to being pleasent again. I thought it went fine, however, the next time I went out with this friend she literally blew up at me in front of other people while we were out to dinner at a nice restaurant. She blew up at me for not allowing that conversation to continue to revolve around her. She even said I ignored her and that evening she had really been the center of attention for most of the time. She was mean to me and loud in front of other people I ended up walking out. I actually saw that couple again to ask them if I ignored my friend and they clearly remembered that was not the case and that my friend insisted on controlling the conversation.

I have learned that some people you can trust with your emotions and some people you just can't. I have also come to realize that I need to be a bit careful in that I am very good at helping others with challenged emotions, however, I can also end up having to deal with a person's need to dump their anger on me too if I somehow failed to respond exactly the way that person needed me to respond.

I think the key is to learn that when you interact with certain people they may not respond to you exactly the way you need them to. The friend that I described above, is not someone I can share MY needs with and have her respond to me in a way that actually contributes to my feeling BETTER and that it was SAFE to actually sit and share my personal emotional challenges with. This friend ended up teaching me something very important about her in that when I have challenges myself, she is simply not the right person to share with, gotta keep it "short" unless it's all about HER. And I really have to remember "do not talk about me AT ALL, and keep the conversation focused on HER". I found that the best way to have boundaries with this person is to "keep it short" when I talk about myself otherwise I will end up being talked down to and condescended to.

Often boundaries are not so much about changing the other person, but, instead changing what you ask of that person that can leave you open to the very behavior you don't want to get from that person. And sometimes, it can mean recognizing when someone comes to you for an emotional dump and maybe it's not such a good idea to get that person too comfortable with expecting that of you. In the end, when it comes down to having a friend that can be a real good friend where it's safe to give and take in a healthy way, those friends are few and far between.

This isn't about that, necessarily. This isn't about my friends wanting me to be their emotional support. They ASSUME that I need to be told what to do and HOW to do it. They both are .very controlling people and step in to educate me, to talk down to me and to make me feel as though I cannot do anything for myself. As I said before, one friend kept saying "do you understand? Do you understand?" As though I may not get it at all. It was most irritating!!! I liked Seesaw's suggestion about just telling them upfront that I can handle it and don't need advice.

Sounds like she may has a superiority complex.

One thing I learned about people who cross boundaries is that there has to be consequences for their actions. So next time, you can give her a warning. And if she does it again the next, next time, you can stop answering your phone for a while. If she wants your friendship, she needs to treat you with respect. She can't have it both ways: Maintain friendship with you and disrespect you. These two things cannot co-exist.

Thanks, Ennie.

She does have a superiority complex. She's always been like this. I cannot be so cut and dry with these two, as they are my oldest college friends. I would never cut off friendship..... as it is, we don't speak or see each other often. One of them, I hadn't spoken to in over a year on the phone.

I just need to be much stronger with my boundaries, which is something I am working on.

Actually, when I replied to your quandery I ended up thinking about the friends I had myself and how they reacted when I needed help. Often what happens is we grow up stuck in a role before we even have the capacity to understand what that role is. We just do our best to fit in and figure out how to thrive in this family setup whatever that may be. What results from this is without realizing it, how we learned to thrive with these other entities in our family begins to attract the very same kind of people we often attach ourselves to in our lives too.

golden, what I have noticed about what you share is that you have a lot of these kind of people in your life. Both your parents are like this with you, maybe your older sister who was "daddy's favorite" is a bit like this. This talking down to was always there, however, as you have been healing and learning you are beginning to become more aware of it. Ugh, it's no wonder you have felt "alone" with a lot of things, that is what typically results when having too many "critics" in your life, other people that wanted you to do things THEIR way and failed to really SEE you.

What can happen with a lot of individuals that grow up in an environment where they have to play a certain role "before" they even have the ability to comprehend this role they are going to be put into, is how they don't get their emotional needs met. This tends to make certain individuals susceptible to being emotionally manipulated too. It's living one's life with emotional confusion and not really quite understanding how to overcome it.

These "old" friends know you pretty well, and they knew you long ago when you were still very naive. My guess is they always talked down to you at times, but now you are seeing it MORE. Recently, I got to know a woman at a place I get gas and she has seen me suffering through so much crap. I began to talk to her and it turned out that this woman also suffers from ptsd. I talked about how bad things were with my older sister and this woman looked right into my eyes and said, "Your sister was ALWAYS this way, you just did not want to see it". When I drove away, I began to realize how this woman was right. Honestly, I just wanted to love other people, I just wanted to get along too. I just really did not see the forest through the trees, and you know what golden? This is more common than most realize.

One thing I am most definitely learning myself is that I am never going to change my older sister. Instead, I have to change the way I interact with her. There are people in your life golden that you can't take your emotional challenges to. All you will get is talked down to and condescended to because that is what this kind of person is like as a person. And I am not saying that to you assuming you don't know, it's actually something I am coming to see myself about people more and more. After a while, as we are healing and growing as a person, we slowly come to recognize what people we can actually "safely" turn to when we struggle emotionally and what people will respond with condescension and criticism. Often having better boundaries comes from ourselves and knowing who isn't going to respond to us the way we would like and need them to. So, basically, don't reach out to these individuals in the first place.

I’ve experienced this.... quite a bit... I realized I had two choices.... stop sharing anything with friends or get new friends.... I did a little bit of both.

This may or may not be your decision but it’s what I needed for personal space and reflection.

I stopped sharing with the friends who bossed or judged me. I am kind and friendly and still talk to them but just stopped sharing. They aren’t really friends after all in my case.....

I’ve had a lot of great advice from friends here on PC... you included. I come to you folks for heartfelt advice and I’m now extremely careful what I say IRL. Maybe in time I’ll learn to handle my communication better and to build trust with people again.

Let me know if confronting the issue head on helps. It would probably be the best thing in order to build and maintain strong friendships. I just haven’t had the patience or stomach for it lately.

Thanks.... I think I will stop sharing. That was the conclusion I came to after hanging up the phone with my friend last we spoke. Like, ok, you need to tell me what to do and how to do it as though I am incapable? I won't share any of my life problems anymore! lol.

They're more like distant friends now but yes, they both have always been this way. I am becoming less tolerant of BS as I get older I guess.

Sorry to write so little right now. I am utterly exhausted atm. But thank you. I really appreciate the support.

A lot of people have very Type A personalities. I think people like them have one way of treating other people. They don't try to change unless they're forced to.

I have found that getting assertive (but not rude) is a good way of dealing with them. I was friends with someone who was very arrogant and patronizing to me. At first, I tried to be reasonable and discuss it with him like mature adults, but he persisted in his undesirable behavior and I ended the friendship. I set a limit on what I was willing to tolerate. My situation was kind of extreme, but I think setting a firm boundary is always helpful. If people think they can walk all over you, they will.

I think you should talk to them and say "Listen, I'm 48 years old and we are equals. You need to respect me" . You can rephrase it to how you would say it.

I wish you lots of luck. You're a lovely person and you deserve to have great friends who respect and love you.

Thank you SO much, KD.... I wish I could write more right now, but I feel very downhearted about life in general at the moment. I really like your suggestions though... very helpful! I will plan ahead for next go around with each of them. Good to have a strategy in my back pocket.