On meaning and recognition

In order to feel at peace in this world, we need to see ourselves reflected in it. We need some sort of recognition from others in order to truly understand who we are. In order to do this, we need to actively build and maintain relationships with others. Meaningful relationships, no less. They must be built on honesty, otherwise we're not understanding ourselves at all, but rather, an image we present to the other person. We're not growing as people.

Maybe. I do think this is true, for the most part, but how do we begin revealing our real self? It's a tricky business, and I don't know who to trust. Spoiler alert, for those who haven't read my other thread in the ASPD forum, but I'm probably a psychopath. I can't just drop that truth bomb on people, you know? That's how the police get involved, and I can't have that. There's too much at stake.

I mean, I can on here because it's anonymous, and the risk of me being actually affected by this revelation is slim. But in real life? Nobody has any idea who I am in real life, and as soon as they start to catch wise, usually a shelf life of about 2 years, I move to another state.

I really want to grow as a person. Honestly. But I'm not sure how I can do that.

What makes you think you are a psychopath?

In a word, my therapist informed me after I took a lengthy personality test.

I am not sure she can diagnose you just going by personality test. She might find you have some traits and you yourself likely notice some traits but I’d see a psychiatrist to get a diagnosis. I’d not tell people you are a psychopath if you don’t know for sure

But I totally understand what you are saying. Some things are easy to reveal or there isn’t much to reveal or other people don’t care about your revelations. But some things are just impossible to reveal without people running away.

Now is your behavior revealing? If you never disclose, would people still know something is off by how you act? So do you want to improve your actions and behavior? Or you came to terms with it and just want to work on how to reveal it to people?

Quote:

Originally Posted by divine1966 I am not sure she can diagnose you just going by personality test. She might find you have some traits and you yourself likely notice some traits but I’d see a psychiatrist to get a diagnosis. I’d not tell people you are a psychopath if you don’t know for sure But I totally understand what you are saying. Some things are easy to reveal or there isn’t much to reveal or other people don’t care about your revelations. But some things are just impossible to reveal without people running away. Now is your behavior revealing? If you never disclose, would people still know something is off by how you act? So do you want to improve your actions and behavior? Or you came to terms with it and just want to work on how to reveal it to people?

I went to therapy for awhile, talked about my history, my behavior, my emotions, all that jazz. It wasn't just the test. Regardless, I'm definitely not going tell someone, "I'm a psychopath."

In the majority of my day-to-day interactions, very few people would be able to tell. If anything, I come off as reserved, maybe a little aloof. It's when people get close, when I'm in a situation where I'm expected to react emotionally, that people really start to take notice. When they do get to know me more personally, they're always taken aback by some of the shockingly callous things that slip out of my mouth sometimes. But it usually takes about, like I said, a few years before they realize I'm not merely hiding my emotions, but rather that I don't have many emotions to hide.

I want to become a better person, more comfortable in myself, and more aware of both my strengths and limitations. And I don't think I can do that alone. I need to learn from and along with other people, but it's hard to do that when people only see the persona, the "mask" that I project.

This whole existential crisis came about because of two interactions:
1. A psychopath showed up at my writing club for one meeting, trying to pull some con, and I was utterly thrilled. We probably wouldn't have been friends, but at least I could've talked with this guy about all the things that normal people just don't understand. But he never came back, and I feel like I missed out on a rare opportunity to talk with someone who thinks about the same way I do.

2. One of my friends asked me out, saying that he really liked me. And it occurred to me that he has no idea who I really am. Any time a guy shows interest in me, I'm always a little perplexed, and I think that's because who they like doesn't really exist. It's just a persona.

I don't know if a deep and meaningful connection is even possible, but I'd at least like to be able to talk honestly with someone who gets me.

Interesting posts. Thanks for sharing. My understanding is that antisocial personality disorder is basically a modern term for sociopathy. Sociopathy is different from psychopathy. Sociopathy results from learned traits over time in response to environment and experience whereas psychopathy exists at birth...the brain is set up differently.

You say you have no emotions but you don't post that way which could mean one of two things. What is your goal when you post on PC? That is different for everyone.

You say you are not very emotional. You could think of it as you are like Spock amongst the human crew on the Starship Enterprise. Kirk liked and accepted Spock because he was useful, moral and had the back of his friend Kirk and the Starship Enterprise. Kirk found Spock's differences interesting, he would smile and consider Spock's opinion even when they did not agree. Spock tried to understand what made human's "tick". McCoy never totally accepted Spock. McCoy sometimes made snide comments about Spock but they still managed to work together. McCoy was more close minded than Kirk. Maybe you need to figure out who the Kirks, McCoys and other types are in your life. Is this a helpful comparison?

I am not sure that being a psychopath would automatically mean you are a bad person. It would depend on a person's behavior and morality from my POV. Also, be careful about letting a single test or a few people define you. Everyone is much more complex than that. I would like to think we all have the ability to adapt and grow. It sounds like that is what you are working on. I wonder if SilverTrees' 3000 Questions thread on the depression forum would be helpful? It is good to get feedback from others but then we need to "tune in" to what is going on internally to see where we fall on the human spectrum. Some of what we know about ourselves can be kept private. I sometimes share too much. Learning to feel like I can keep things private is something I am still working on. It is not wrong to choose what we want to share.

Perhaps you need to find a friend who has the ability to accept you. I realize that finding friends we connect to is not always easy.

Can you sense other's emotions? If not, they say that learning to read body language can be helpful.

I tend to use my gut feelings (about whether someone genuinely likes me) to determine whether or not I can trust others (I am not always right but much of the time I am). I operate very intuitively sometimes and can't imagine how I would navigate the would without my intuitive sensability (perhaps this is emotional IQ?)

There must be a way you can harness and compensate for not being very emotional. My strengths can be my "Achile's heel" and vice versa. You probably first need to learn acceptance and learn how to find ways to use this as a strength. Sometimes being emotional clouds my judgement resulting in a state of panic or paralysis. I am guessing you are free of panic attacks and anxiety.

Im curious by what you mean by becoming a "better" person?

Also, I think you can talk honestly about your psychopathy here, and hopefully you feel that way. As long as it doesn't break community guidelines.

This is just the way that I write. I'm aware that I write and speak with emotion-laden words at times without fully understanding them, but I often do it without thinking. Maybe that's something I need to be more mindful of.

My overarching goal is to find out more about myself, and then to strive to become a better person with that knowledge. I joined PC because I had stumbled on some old posts written by psychopaths and found them to be quite insightful. Even though the original authors haven't been on in ages, I thought that maybe a few were still around or another likeminded individual would come along and be willing to chat. Failing that, it's nice that I can talk about these issues a little more openly, even if no one understands what the hell I'm talking about.

I don't doubt that there are people who would be fine with me being a psychopath. A part of me wishes I could live fully in the open and let others decide whether they want to befriend me or not.

Also, be careful about letting a single test or a few people define you. Everyone is much more complex than that. I would like to think we all have the ability to adapt and grow.

I definitely will not allow a diagnosis to define me, and I most certainly won't allow those unimaginative so-called experts of the human condition tell me what I can or cannot do (and yes, it has occurred to me that this is a very antisocial reaction to have ). That's part of the reason why I sought out the opinions of psychopaths rather than non-psychopaths. Most of the stuff written on psychopaths seems like melodramatic rants about how they're cold, calculating lizard people bent on destroying everything they come into contact with. A lot of the information contradicts itself, too, which makes it even more difficult to process all of it.

Perhaps you need to find a friend who has the ability to accept you.

Yeah, finding acceptance has been a bit of a challenge, which is why I'm trying to be more open. I have a lot of friends - not close friends, because I don't allow people to get close - but they're not accepting of "me," because they don't know "me," so their acceptance feels hollow.

Can you sense other's emotions? If not, they say that learning to read body language can be helpful. I operate very intuitively sometimes and can't imagine how I would navigate the would without my intuitive sensability.

I can't "sense" others' emotions, but I can read them very easily. I mirror people like nobody's business. I've never known any different. In fact, when I was a kid, I used to think everyone was basically acting, because that's all I was doing. I couldn't figure out how everyone was able to act so easily and all the time, especially during highly emotional situations. It took me an embarrassingly long time to realize that other people weren't merely acting.

You probably first need to learn acceptance and learn how to find ways to use this as a strength. Sometimes being emotional clouds my judgement resulting in a state of panic or paralysis. I am guessing you are free of panic attacks and anxiety.

That's the goal. And no, I've never had a panic attack. I do get a bit of anxiety sometimes, but it's rare and rather weak.

I've been very into Jungian psychology lately, so I'm trying to understand and make peace with the "shadow self" so that I can become a more whole person.

Now, most of the time, I'm a happy and well-adjusted psychopath who can handle most of life's challenges with relative ease. But, when push comes to shove, I have a tendency to say or do things which are so callous that it's shocking to onlookers. As one of my therapists put it, my personality can turn on a dime. I want to know what triggers that and work to control it.

I've also got the duping delight thing real bad, and sometimes it physically pains me to not mess with people. It's not malicious, just lighthearted mischievousness (usually), but I think I take it too far sometimes.

Very interesting conversation. It sounds like you’re very self-aware and have been since you were quite young. I’ve always wondered about how our brains evolve the way they do and whether all these personality types we label these days are there to serve a certain purpose in society... or at least originally evolved for that purpose.

I think you can work on change or self-improvement as much as anybody else can. Why not? Cognitively you can learn and understand. Behaviorally you can make changes. That’s the best I personally feel I could do with any issues I am working on... things like anxiety or anything else just exist, whether we like it or not, and we learn to work through it. Not to oversimplify though... life ain’t easy...

Right. I don't doubt that meaningful change is possible, it's just rather difficult when I can't be all that honest with people, hence my desire to reach out to others.

Interesting that you thought people were acting when you were a child. Some people are terrible at acting and everybody can see right through it.
....
Do you apologize to people you have "duped?"

I think true intimacy requires disclosure of the person we are inside (not everything but enough to be open about what we are about) and acceptance of the other person. You might not like everything about them but, for me, I want to get to know and be friends with people who have traits I admire. Traits like bravery, intelligence, creativity, morality, compassion and passion. So I think finding a friend involves improving yourself and pursuing life goals you have a passion for then reaching out to people who have similiar goals, values, etc. Many of my friends were involved in the same activites I was. The were mostly classmates and coworkers or friends of my classmates or friends from my college dormitory. In my best past relationships (I always just had a few friends before I was married), I felt a connection from the beginning. The feeling may not always have been mutual but many times, I was told by my friend that it was.

I painted this picture to illustrate that you have to be willing to be open in order to make friends and you might have the best luck with people who possess similiar values and goals. You can't force friendships. It is more like fate brings people together and then, every once and a while, the connection happens.

Have you every felt "connected" to another person? My description of this is that I felt like we were on the same wavelength (thought the same way) about something in our lives.

If they call me out on it or if they're visibly upset by it.

I think true intimacy requires disclosure of the person we are inside

Right, and that's what I'm trying to work on. Shortly after I created this thread, I was hanging out with a group of friends, and I was trying to be more myself. Not to imply that I had a sit-down with everyone where I flat-out admitted that I was a psychopath, but rather that I wasn't actively trying to appear normal by faking emotions or whatever. And I was constantly messing with people, but in a jokey way, and everyone had a good time of it.

Anyway. Last night, I was talking with another person who was at the party, and he remarked that he had been getting angry at the host of the party for whatever reason. We started talking about it, and he asked if I had also gotten angry at the host. I can't remember exactly how the whole conversation went, but he made the comment that I hide my emotions too well, and he can never tell when I'm angry or not.

I just thought it was strange that:
1. he was looking for an emotional response from me during the party.
2. he thought I was actively hiding an emotional response.

Well, I guess it isn't that strange that he would be looking for something that should be there. But it's strange to me because, when I try to be more myself, people assume that I'm hiding behind a mask.

So I think finding a friend involves improving yourself and pursuing life goals you have a passion for then reaching out to people who have similiar goals, values, etc. Many of my friends were involved in the same activites I was.

I agree, and most of my friends are coworkers or fellow club members. I befriend people fairly easily, but...

Have you every felt "connected" to another person?

No. Not really. I mean, there are definitely people that I like more than others, but if they were to move to another state and stop contacting me, it wouldn't much faze me. Other people, however, have expressed a connection with me. I don't really understand why, and I have no idea what to do about it.

Other than to say, "You're making a terrible mistake."

If you don't already know, there's a community of self proclaimed psychopaths on Quora, a Q and A site. The most popular figure on the subject goes by the name of Athena Walker. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...NlL936TuL3qDpp

You could read her answers to see if what she says registers with you. She also responds to some comments, if you have any questions. You'd have to make an account though.

If credibility is something your concerned about, on the rare occassion she cites the work of Kevin Dutton.

And just recently the most extensively researched answer she has had so far, with numerous citations, if you're interested.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Cmek7uxv6gFP-w

I didn't know that. Thanks!