"Boyfriend" doesn't want to commit

I've got so many issues with my life right now that I don't know where to start, but I just got off the phone with the current "significant other" and as always, our conversation has left question marks in my mind, so I'll start there ...

This will probably be a very long introductory post. I apologise.

I met G. a few years ago, at work. Immediately hit it off as friends as we had very similar interests and hobbies. We started hanging out and having cute little coffee dates every few weeks or so, which raised eyebrows everywhere - he was/is old enough to be my father, and to make it worse, I look younger than I am. We were strictly platonic friends, but people constantly assumed we were dating for reasons unknown. And even when they found out we were not dating, our friendship was frowned upon because of the age difference. Everyone saw G. as a creepy predator and deemed it inappropriate that I was hanging out with him. I obviously disagreed. There was nothing inappropriate about our friendship. We just got along super well.

I've always enjoyed the company of more "mature" folks, all my friends were at least 5 years my senior. People in my age group tended to p*ss me off royally with their lifestyles and characters and there was never any common ground.
I didn't "get" their obsession with celebrities, status, money and social media. I liked to talk about politics, philosophy and saving the world, and did not care at all for the newest limited edition sneakers. Capitalism was my enemy. G. very much shared my thoughts.

When the relationship with my then-husband (who is very much worthy of his own post here) turned toxic, my friendships slowly tapered away. The only one who stuck with me was G. He was a neverending source of support, always picking me up, pushing me in all the right directions, making sure I didn't go completely crazy. But of course my then-husband saw me having an emotional affair, not me turning to a friend for support, which surely played a part in our breakup. To this day, I am not allowed to mention his name to once-husband. Which is a problem, because now I am dating G.

"Dating" might be the wrong word. I don't know what we are. We fell into a relationship very suddenly, very easy and naturally. It just "made sense" one day. Now it's been 6 marvellous months with him and I'm mostly still amazed that this really smart, bright and funny human likes me just as much as I like him, but the road has also been rocky from the start because I like "knowing" things and he likes not knowing things, if that makes sense. He prefers to just go with the flow, while I'd prefer definitions so I know what to expect.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for going with the flow, but it's really hard to explain to your mother that you have a sort-of-boyfriend who loves you to the moon and back and yet still won't commit and refuses to be called "boyfriend" while simultaniously throwing a fit when you don't call him your boyfriend. He's aware that he's a paradox. Neither of us knows how to solve him. He's both a source of endless joy and endless frustrations.

We are extremly good at communicating, but still can't work out how to have a conversation about this issue. We try but it never goes anywhere fruitful. Either we get too frustrated and give up, or he jokes his way out of the topic. When I really get on his nerves, he'll pull the "you are too young to understand this" card, which of course then warrants another discussion.
It's quite maddening. We have now somehow gone half a year without having something to call each other. To me, it's pretty simple - you act like a boyfriend, you get called a boyfriend. Or partner, or significant other, or whatever really, simply because it's impractical in daily life otherwise. But of course that's just a silly discussion because the word itself doesn't matter one bit.

What matters are the implications of it, and that's where the problem lies. For all intends and purposes, we are both single, and that seems to be how he prefers it. I'd understand it if he wanted an uncomplicated friends-with-benefits scenario, or really just a friendship like we used to have. But that does not seem to be the case. He shows me more and more how much he loves me. He gets downright offended when I suggest he should go on a date with someone else. He gushes about me to his friends and family. He makes it a point to call me at least once a day when we can't meet each other. He's always emotionally available, has not once let me down with anything, does not shy away from responsibility at all. He's being amazing and makes me feel like I'm the queen to his king. He makes me a priority all the time.

But he still doesn't want to be my significant other, and I do not understand. We are great together. I should be allowed to say we are together.

I've since heard that relationships like this are called "situationships", but that definition doesn't seem to be right for us. Yes, apparently I want more than he does, but he doesn't seem to shy away from all the relationship stuff like situationshippers usually do? Is it possible that he really just can't stand expectations, and that's why he's refusing to completely commit to us? Or am I just setting myself up for disappointment here and living an illusion?

Of course, there's also my once-husband whom I still love to consider. G. knows about my feelings and is very understanding about it. But maybe he is still uncertain of wether or not I would leave him and go back to once-husband if I got the chance?

I'd appreciate any thoughts and input on the matter ... and I'd love to hear about your story. Thank you for listening.

Are you two exclusively dating each other? or do you technically have the freedom to date anyone else? If you are exclusive have you asked him what you two are-like what can you call your relationship? If he says boyfriend-when he accepts the term, he cant have it both ways- boyfriend accept when it comes to other people knowing. And you say you love your ex. Does Mr G know this? Maybe that is a reason he does not want a title? And can you really give your all to Mr G while loving the ex? is that really fair?

What's the more in depth content of these conversations? What does he end up saying? What do you end up saying? Does he know all your reasons for wanting to label the relationship?

If you haven't already, perhaps its preferable inquite about then listen to his reasons for not wanting to label the relationship, rather than having a conversation about it.

If you've already tried that to no avail, and he refuses to open up. Im not sure what to say. In the meantime, if you haven't tried, maybe you can ask him what your relationship status should be called when it's brought up by others.

This guy just want it casual. You can’t force people to commit. But If you still love your ex, why would you even want this other guy to commit?

Thanks for sharing your truth with us With Fishes.

I wasn't sure what you meant about your once-husband. I noted that you never called him your ex....are you folks separated rather than divorced or is he doing a spell in prison or something? I'm not sure what once-husband means. Would you feel comfortable sharing more? Are you ambivalent about being his wife again? Or are you still his wife?

You said G is old enough to be your father. While I have no personal bias about age-gap relationships....I think consenting adults can make up their own minds....I do want to point something out. There's an inherent power differential there. With one person being much older. Would be similar if you dated someone with much more money than you etc. You aren't on a level playing field. Now that may not bother you...but it's worth thinking about. He's already condescending to you when you disagree "you're too young to understand" which is invalidating and unnecessary. Might he play the older man card in other ways? I don't know but it happens a lot. I assume you folks are in a sexual relationship? That's another area to look out for the power differential....is the sex what you want and appreciate as much as what he wants....meeting your needs....always safe and respectful? etc etc I am not suggesting otherwise, just giving you a few screening ideas here.

What about the future? I'm guessing you are both in quite different stages of life? Perhaps not. If you wound up in a long-term relationship (say after a year or two) with someone (G or otherwise) would you want marriage? Children? What sort of lifestyle? Going out a lot or staying home? Spending a lot or saving etc etc. Travel? What does G want in his future?

I think a discussion of general future goals (need not be directly about each other as 6 months is still early days) could be a way to help you figure out your feelings about this dynamic.

You mentioned frequent communication barriers. For a brief fling, that wouldn't pose too much of a problem. But for the foundation of a lasting relationship (if you decide you want that) that is a major problem. Communication is one of the big building blocks. It needs to start well and build from there. If communication starts out problematic, it would likely plateau or devolve from there. When the foundation has big cracks in it, you don't want to build on top, right?

In general while dating, I think it's best to step back a bit and focus on yourself. Ask yourself the following:

- when I close my eyes and imagine my ideal future it looks like.....and I am there with......and I want x, y, or z.
- Do I see G in my future? Why? Why not?
- Do I see once-husband in my future? Why? Why not?

Once you know what you want, you can go after it. You state it clearly and let the chips fall where they may. The alternative, waiting around to see if someone else chooses you etc is not a path to peace and happiness. If you see what I mean.

I wish you well as you navigate these decisions. I hope it works out the way you want You deserve to be happy.

Technically, we are free to date other people since he does not want to commit, but in reality neither of us wants to date other people, and so we don't. I would actually be okay with him dating someone else. I know what I mean to him and wouldn't be jealous. But he refuses and I think HE would not be on board with me dating someone else.
With strangers, he will sometimes accept the term "boyfriend" because it's the easy way out, but mostly he will say things like "she's with me" or "we're together" or fumble for explanations, which is very awkward.
The thing with my ex is pretty complicated but yes, G. knows about it and says he is okay with me still loving him. He knows that it's very hard to just stop loving someone whom you've spent a decade with. I've been very open and straightforward about it with G. It's not so much that I'm still in love with my ex and would like to rekindle the relationship - that ship has sailed. I was the one to break up and divorce him, and for good reason. I would never want to go back to him, but we shared some good years and memories and I am still fond of him despite what happened.
G. says his reluctance to put a name on it doesn't have anything to do with my ex, but for some reason I'm not so sure. I feel like he is just a little bit insecure about that. He's joked that I'd ditch him the first chance I got if my ex showed up with my favorite sweets and apologised, and that didn't sit well with me. He was just making a joke about how much I love sweets, but I couldn't help but feel that there was something more at play there. When talking about it though, he says of course he knows that I won't go back to my ex husband.

Well. I will ask "Hey, can we talk about how we define our relationship? It's very frustrating to me to not know if we are together or not."
G: "Of course we are together. Why do we have to put a label on it?"
Me: "I know you don't like expectations, but if we put a label on what we are, I'd be less concerned about just being a toy to you. It makes me insecure to not know how you see me."
G: "I'm sorry. I just really don't like labels. Labels create expectations and expectations ruin all the good things. You know how much I love you, you don't have to be insecure just because I don't want to give our relationship a definition. Is there anything I can do to ease your worries?"
Me: "Yes. Just say I'm your girlfriend next time somebody asks."
G: "But boyfriend/girlfriend sounds so immature."
Me: "Then pick another term, one that resonates more with you?"
G: "Like what, partner?"
Me: "Sure, that works."
G: *introduces me as his "partner in crime" the next chance he gets.*

He tells his friends that he doesn't know what we are. They've been making assumptions and he's actually been getting quite annoyed at them, but really, what are they supposed to think? To everyone, it looks like we're a couple, so they'll call us that.

That's what I thought at first, but no, he gets offended when I imply that. Also in every other way he is NOT acting casual. He's totally smitten with me and it shows. His sisters have actually taken me aside and asked what I'm doing to make him that happy all the time, they'd like to know the secret ... lol. His friends are telling me how good I am for him and how glad they are that I'm with him. His parents died not so long ago and he's had a hard time coping with it. He's been pretty withdrawn the previous months and everyone was concerned about it. But since we got together, he is much more his old self again. I don't want to force anything. If he just wants a casual fling, okay, but he swears up and down he doesn't and besides the definition problem, he isn't acting like it either.

I do get that y'all don't know what's going on in his mind, only he can tell me that. Thank you for taking the time to read all this and to help out It means a lot to me. It's really hard to talk about this with anyone else.

Thank you

Calling him an ex - to me - implies to me that he has no lasting importance, but of course he is an ex. We've been divorced for about a year now. The thing is, he was "the one" for me. We've been together for most of our young lives. Best friends since preschool, grew up together, were inseperable for a decade before we started dating and married. We honestly believed we'd stay together forever. All we wanted was to grow old together, and we really were two pods in a pea. We were the couple in a friend group that everyone envies and wishes they could be like. I guess somewhere along the way, reality set in.

After we bought a house, things got complicated. We started arguing, in a way we never had before. He became quite emotionally abusive and my self-esteem went down the drain. He never left the house anymore, hated me, said I made him want to kill himself. I tried to get him help, but that backfired and he became even angrier at me. I saw no other way out than to leave him. It was a really ugly divorce and he burned all the bridges. Nowadays, we are back on speaking terms, but it still breaks my heart to talk to him. He does not believe he did anything wrong and refuses to apologise, at the same time he wants me back. If he knew I was with G, he'd completely lose it, so I try to keep the contact to a minimum. I've been very clear, to both him and G, that I do not ever want to be in a relationship with him again. I find it hard to completely remove him from my life because he has been with me ever since I can remember though, and I deeply care for him despite what happened and how he has treated me. We had a wonderful life together before things started to become ugly.

G knows this all and is very respectful about it. He used to be friends with my then-husband too, after all, and he never had any desire to come between us. He is almost as heartbroken as I am that it didn't work out, in a way. He knows how much I loved him. I get that this sounds strange to some people, but it's true.

Yes, we're aware of the uneven power dynamic due to the age gap. It's usually not an issue though. The only time he uses it to his advantage is when he gets really fed up with me wanting to discuss our relationship status, but I do stand up for myself then and point it out to him. He will immediately apologise and take it back and it isn't a big deal to me in the moment, and this never happens in any other setting.
We are indeed in a sexual relationship. No issues there at all, quite the opposite. He treats me really well and it's super fun to be with him. He's always very respectful and gentleman-ly. That translates into other areas of our lives as well. He's being really good to me and encourages me to grow, to be my own person, and to take no *****, especially not from him. He's taught me how to stand up for myself again after my once-husband destroyed every inch of self-esteem I ever had. I know now how unhealthy, toxic and codependent my previous relationship was, and I have no desire to repeat the experience.

We are in different stages of our lives, that's very true. He's established a name for himself in the industry he works in, is quite successful and "grounded". I'm just starting out my career, barely have money and am overall quite the "hippie". But as I said, we've been close friends for about a decade now, and got a good balance. We know each other really well and are very much okay with where we are in life. I'm open to marriage and children, but it's not a must for me. Maybe one day. He is much the same. He says he can't really imagine marriage because it's just a word to him and he doesn't believe in the institution, but he wouldn't mind being an "old" father. We can both imagine having children with each other.

Our lifestyles generally align. I don't have many friends myself and am generally more for staying at home, but over the years I've come to know his friends and family and they've become my friends too so we spend a lot of time with them and I've really grown to enjoy that. We 100% agree on money matters even if we have quite the gap in income. He enjoys spending more to make up for it. Like, if he wants me to tag along on an expensive holiday, he'll cover most of it for me. Likewise, I'll save up money to treat him to lunch in a nice restaurant or something. I'd say we are quite balanced there, always have been, and we've got the same values towards it.
He just wants to enjoy his life in the future. Keep working on his career because he enjoys it, but not so much that his personal life will suffer. We're both more family people than workaholics, and we are fortunate to live in a state where that's possible without too many sacrifices.

We don't really have frequent communication issues, just related to defining our relationship because he is so reluctant and will resort to not wanting to talk about it or deflecting. But this is definitely something we need to work on.

Thank you for asking all the right questions. You really made me think about this more in-depth. I do know what I want, I guess I am just really scared of rejection still. I don't always feel like I "deserve" good things, and I tend to sabotage my life without realising it out of fear. With G, it seems so complicated to me because I feel like he will flat-out say "no" to being with me a 100%, and in a way he already has, several times, while at the same time telling me that he only feels compelled to do so but actually wants to be my significant other for real. It's really confusing. I also feel like I can't give my all to him sometimes because his intentions aren't always clear. I don't want to talk about having his children with a casual fling, after all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by with fishes The only time he uses it to his advantage is when he gets really fed up with me wanting to discuss our relationship status,

For some reason, this.. concerns me (maybe not the right word). Being able to call someone by something (partner, BF, husband, whatever) isn't all that trivial and its obviously important to you. I do not understand why you revisiting the subject BECAUSE he will not address it is a reason to be fed up with you. It's important to you, and even if it isn't for him, you are one half of the equation and you deserve to be heard and so what if this one things makes him uncomfortable? Its one thing you are asking for, and its not something that compromises him. For some reason it just doesnt sit right with me,

He has told me several times that he does not want to discuss this and I should respect his wish. I am trying, but of course this concerns me too, and I'm not okay with the ambivalence of it.

To his credit though, I know he is not ignoring the issue, and dislikes how he reacts to it. He has told me he wishes he could just say that he's my partner, but stresses that currently, he can not. He feels like it would compromise something. But he says he cannot tell what.

I should also mention that I am - currently - fine with not having anything to call him/our relationship, it's just something that I feel will drag on forever if we can't reach an agreement, and that's why I keep bringing it up. If he doesn't want a relationship, then he doesn't want a relationship, but that's not what he's saying.

If you are fine with everything - currently - what about letting it go for now and waiting until such time as you are not fine?

It sounds like he has been crystal clear about not wanting to discuss it.

But maybe you are not fine with it:

Also,

What brings you to think it will drag on forever if you can't reach an agreement now?

I do wonder how much of an "agreement" of the hearts you will truly reach if he ever starts to feel compelled to discuss it.

Sometimes sitting with ambivalence for a time is a lesser evil.

Thanks for giving so much input to help us understand the situation. So often people really give so little background that it’s really hard to contribute anything logical. OK, so your options are to 1. Just revel in the pleasure of the situation for a while and maybe set a date to revisit this when he may be ready to seriously start planning a future. 2. You could gently and reasonably say that its not a big deal to call you something when your relationship is already so much in place and practice getting your needs.met by saying firmly that he should choose a word. I think partner in crime is an OK joke if he goes on to call you partner in a respectful way You could set a goal for at what point you would not go longer without some definite plans. You do have a biological clock as does he, really. I understand that your main concern is that his intentions not remain blurry for a long time. Yes, that would be difficult. You are very flexible about many things in shapes the relationship might take, but sleeping with you and acting like he cant call you his girlfriend is a HUGE red flag.

Well, I've mostly been letting it go, I haven't persistently been pushing him for an answer. The biggest reason why I kept bringing it up anyway is that it's causing a strain on both us and him and his close friends and it's getting worse every day and therefore making me more insecure every day.

Just yesterday he had a major fight with "J". J had initially invited G along on a holiday with his wife and a handful of other friends, and upon realising that I was in the picture, asked me to come along as well. But G immediately got weirdly defensive and asked J why he was just assuming we were a couple. J, not realising he'd opened a can of worms, innocently went "well you two are clearly something so you can't really blame me for jumping to conclusions, just come along together" and G almost threw him out of the house, which in turn angered J and turned into a heated discussion/shouting match over who's the bigger idiot.

Just a hunch? I figured he's in his comfort zone where the status quo doesn't change. That's basically what he told me at first. "Why change something that works incredibly well?"
Except it's not working incredibly well, for neither of us. I think I would be alright with not putting a label on it, if I thought that's what he really wanted.

So, I drove by his house a few hours ago, just for a quick chat and coffee.
I wasn't planning on any "relationship talk", just missed his company.

He did something very unexpected. He went full-on Matrix on me. He told me to sit down and close my eyes as soon as I walked through the door. When he told me to look again, he was holding out his hands to me, a candy pill in each.

"After this, there is no turning back. Take the blue pill, and the story's over. You wake up in your own bed, free of any memories of our little affair, and keep believing what you want to believe without me complicating things. Take the red pill, and you stay in Wonderland with me, where I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."

We all know how that story ended ...

Thanks for sharing the ins and outs With fishes.

Honestly, G sounds like a sociopath. I don't say that to be sarcastic or facetious. I don't wish any harm or trouble for the guy. I sincerely mean that he is living with a personality disorder. I respect you as an intelligent adult who will make her own choices in life. That said, I encourage you to seriously consider ending this relationship. The foundations for abuse are starting to shine through. I speak as someone who has been there.

You can of course completely disregard what I say and tell me I'm way off. No offense taken or intended. I just wanted to tell you my true perceptions because I don't want you to be hurt.

I am sorry in advance if I was too candid. I wish you peace and hope. Shoot me a PM if you'd like to unpack things further.

Now I dont like him—full out. “Our little affair”? An ultimatum. Temper tantrum about a trip and what his friend calls you?
You left out the biggest part—-what did you do?

What started as just a story about noncommittal date escalated to quite a creepy situation. It sounds like he enjoys making you suffer and likes to play his weird games with you. He sounds like a bad news. I’d let him play his games but alone without you

After reading your latest posts, I agree with divine.

If you are looking for an actual adult to be a serious and committed partner, he does not seem to be what you are looking for.

Huh. I thought the pill thing was cute. He wasn't being entirely serious, it's a very cheesy movie reference and was not meant to be a flat-out ultimatum. He says a lot of things tongue-in-cheek, but of course you guys can't know that.


I don't find him to be creepy at all. He can be a bit of a man-child, though he steps up when necessary, and his humor is somewhat hard to get if you don't know him personally.




Thank you for coming out here and sharing this with me. I'm sorry you went through this What foundations for abuse do you see?


G definitely is not a sociopath, nor does he share any of the associated character treats. He's very empathetic, very kind and soft-hearted, honest and loyal. He would never manipulate someone or hurt them on purpose. What he does enjoy is pushing me a bit out of my comfort zone, but he would never give me an actual ultimatum like this or cross any lines that I'm not comfortable with. He knows me very well.


Literally the only issue we have is how much he's trying to get around defining what we've got. He's never acted this way with anything else in 10 years. His friends and family are equal parts bemused/amused/worried/confused at how he is behaving. I've never seen him yell at one of his friends before. It's not something "he does".


I've talked to J (the friend who got yelled at) on the phone and he said G seems uncomfortable with how much he likes me and that's why he is acting so strange. He thinks G is very insecure about making our relationship official, and the attention and gentle teasing we're getting is overwhelming him because he didn't expect to actually want a relationship with me in the long run.


These are not excuses. I have experience with abusive relationships too. But that's not what's happening here. I do appreciate the concern though.

Reading through your thread. What I find to be odd is that he is older, yet is not able to make more of a commitment to you by defining the relationship. He also referred to it is an "affair". I also wonder, since you had stated you wanted to perhaps keep things open for your husband, then also said you would never be back with him again, if "G" worries that you may wish one day to return to your husband and that's why he is so reluctant? I strongly suspect that that may be the real reason and he's not talking about it with you. Why else refer to this as a "little affair"?

That's the feeling I'm getting too by now, especially after talking to his friend on the phone. Why else would he be insecure? He has no reason to be and he is not the irrational kind, so the only thing I can imagine is that he's not sure I won't leave him.

But, the relationship with my former husband is over. I have no desire whatsoever to return to him, even though I still deeply care for him.


I have reassured G of this several times, but of course words don't do any good if my actions don't match up. I am still talking to my former husband, though I'm very transparent about it. G has told me numerous times that he completely understands and it's not necessary to cut him out of my life completely. He is also not jealous. I will bring this up again with him.

He hasn't had troube to commit in the past. He is still friends with two of his former partners and the relationships were healthy and long-lasting.

Do you have conflicted feelings inside about wanting to be with your ex? Your initial post states that you would still love to consider him... ?

Perhaps you mean in a way different than being with him again?

Or, are you conflicted?

This would be the one reason why I could see G being reluctant, insecure and also referring to your relationship as a "little affair".

Perhaps you're giving off different signals to G by remaining in touch with your ex.

In my humble opinion, it is healthiest for the current relationship that neither partner is in close touch with their ex's.

I totally understand given your history with your ex, but when it's over, it's really over and moving on means fully letting go and not being in contact anymore. But that's just my opinion!

I think what I am trying to say is that your actions could be contradictory to your words and G may be reading into your actions, without maybe even being fully aware.