I’m done with.........

Fuzzybear · Jun 19, 2019 at 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eskielover

people don't show concern or care towards things they don't value. I value life whether animal or person & therefore I will do what is necessary to care when I see something I realize needs cared for & there is some way I can figure out what care I can give that will make a difference without harming myself. I do take chances while making that determination.

You can't ever MAKE people care if they don't VALUE the life you are trying to make them care about.

Jun 19, 2019 at 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

What I saw happen to that little bird actually happens to human beings too. I tried to explain that to her in my post giving examples of how human beings are like that with other human beings too.

Yeah, I guess I'm just trying to problem solve, whereas you're trying to empathize.

My bad.

Fuzzybear · Jun 19, 2019 at 05:33 PM

OE....I tend to try to empathise also.

Open Eyes · Jun 19, 2019 at 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theoretical

Yeah, I guess I'm just trying to problem solve, whereas you're trying to empathize.

My bad.

You don't have to feel the feelings necessarily, your response to the dilemma with the bird could merely see that I was bothered and to solve the problem by finding a ladder and scissors and cutting that bird loose.

Often times a person's emotions can get in the way of solving problems.

eskielover · Jun 19, 2019 at 06:34 PM

Sorry this is

but

Quote:

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

You don't have to feel the feelings necessarily, your response to the dilemma with the bird could merely see that I was bothered and to solve the problem by finding a ladder and scissors and cutting that bird loose.

Often times a person's emotions can get in the way of solving problems.

So which was it? Did you ask specifically for a ladder & scissors so you could help the bird yourself or did you just:

Quote:

I did make sure everyone that came in saw this bird all tangled and struggling so much trying to get free. No one wanted to do anything or even showed concern for that matter.

Big difference between these 2 approach actions. The first is problem solving yourself....the second is expecting others to do the problem solving & expecting them to read your mind as to what you are wanting to happen.

mountainstream · Jun 19, 2019 at 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eskielover

Sorry this is

but

So which was it? Did you ask specifically for a ladder & scissors so you could help the bird yourself or did you just:

Big difference between these 2 approach actions. The first is problem solving yourself....the second is expecting others to do the problem solving & expecting them to read your mind as to what you are wanting to happen.

Interesting thread! Thank you Fuzzybear and others for sharing your opinions.

Fuzzybear · Jun 19, 2019 at 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Yes, I have noticed Fuzzy has had a problem with other people caring about her.

I have a feeling Fuzzy would not be one to ignore that struggling bird. And I used it as an example of how her caring is probably going to be different from others who do not want to expend the effort or time to care like she does. A lot of people want someone else to do that, yet at the same time can find her useful when THEY need her time to listen or help with THEIR drama or needs.

What I saw happen to that little bird actually happens to human beings too. I tried to explain that to her in my post giving examples of how human beings are like that with other human beings too.

By the way, it took less than two minutes to get a ladder, and a pair of sissors to free this little bird. I would have done it myself had I known where the ladder was
so I could reach the bird.

Thank you for this post OE, I somehow missed it earlier.

Open Eyes · Jun 19, 2019 at 08:07 PM

To answer your question, I looked around to see if I could find a ladder, my daughter keeps scissors in her tack trunk. I also went and asked and looked for the woman who takes care of all the horses. So, in effect, I did solve the problem. No one else was concerned or cared. I was usually the one that would actually "do something" about these kinds of issues. Including reporting animal or child neglect that others chose to ignore also.

Fuzzybear · Jun 19, 2019 at 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

To answer your question, I looked around to see if I could find a ladder, my daughter keeps scissors in her tack trunk. I also went and asked and looked for the woman who takes care of all the horses. So, in effect, I did solve the problem. No one else was concerned or cared. I was usually the one that would actually "do something" about these kinds of issues. Including reporting animal or child neglect that others chose to ignore also.

Thank you, I’m enjoying learning more about you. We don’t often frequent the same forests on these forums.

“No one else was concerned or cared” ....

eskielover · Jun 19, 2019 at 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

To answer your question, I looked around to see if I could find a ladder, my daughter keeps scissors in her tack trunk. I also went and asked and looked for the woman who takes care of all the horses. So, in effect, I did solve the problem. No one else was concerned or cared. I was usually the one that would actually "do something" about these kinds of issues. Including reporting animal or child neglect that others chose to ignore also.

So you expected others to be concerned & care when you were the one taking care if the problem?

I stop to help stranded motorists or people who need help but if there is already help there I don't bother getting involved. Doesn't mean I am not concerned or that I don't care but my stopping won't make any difference to the help they are already getting. Even when I am the first one at an accident. I do what I need to do & make sure the authorities have arrived. Too many times at accidents people just stop to see what happened, not to help & just get in the way & many don't stop because they know there is nothing they can actually do to help.

Sometimes our own emotional expectations can be our own worst enemy.

Only one person can climb a ladder & use a pair of scissors....the rest would just be standing around watching.

Fuzzybear · Jun 19, 2019 at 09:32 PM

Idk Eskie... I think OE’s example is rather different to the example you’re describing...in many different ways

I’m curious where both of you are on the “empath” scale (if there even is one..)

(To anyone who happens to be reading...) Please no debates or posts saying empaths do not exist.

Fuzzybear · Jun 19, 2019 at 09:35 PM

“Sometimes our own emotional expectations can be our own worst enemy”

... sometimes.. I agree.

Open Eyes · Jun 19, 2019 at 09:40 PM

Nope wasn't like that, pretty much everyone walked away, did not care and it was not seeing me doing anything no one was there when the problem was finally fixed. It was more that no one wanted to stop and help the bird, looked up and walked away, no concern at all. More like it was stupid to care sentiment.

Fuzzybear · Jun 19, 2019 at 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Nope wasn't like that, pretty much everyone walked away, did not care and it was not seeing me doing anything no one was there when the problem was finally fixed. It was more that no one wanted to stop and help the bird, looked up and walked away, no concern at all. More like it was stupid to care sentiment.

Grrrrrrrrr ....

eskielover · Jun 19, 2019 at 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Nope wasn't like that, pretty much everyone walked away, did not care and it was not seeing me doing anything no one was there when the problem was finally fixed. It was more that no one wanted to stop and help the bird, looked up and walked away, no concern at all. More like it was stupid to care sentiment.

Just curious....what did you expect them to do? You were looking for a ladder & you had access to scissors.

I am a total logical problem solver. I see a problem....I figure out how to solve it & take care of what is necessary to do. It doesn't take being empathetic to care or take care of a problem that needs taken care of.

I stop in the middle of the road with my flashers on to move turtles across the road. I just do it without needing anyone else to stop & say ah, turtle in trouble. It doesn't bother me that other cars drive by without stopping & agreeing that the turtle needs help. My expectations are all about what I need to do to solve the problem not have others agree that it is a problem that needs solved. I really don't even care what others think when I KNOW that there is a problem I need to solve.

When I caught the home care person abusing my mom when she was dying of cancer, the home care person was connected to my mom's BF. I had security escort them out of the hospital after they found her. I knew what needed to be done & I only cared about my mom's safety at that point. Her friends said I was overreacting. Not hardly after everything I experienced over the previous 5 days & the fact the home care person gave my mom a hand full of morphine that morning. Some action we just have to take without anyone telling us it is ok or not or even agreeing with us.

Just like slamming the door in their face. You KNOW what action you need to take & you are the one to do it because you know what you need to do whether they like it or not or whether they agree with you or not. We don't need everyone to agree with us to know what we need to do.

Fuzzybear · Jun 19, 2019 at 11:23 PM

I do agree that it doesn’t necessarily take being empathetic to take care of a problem. Just curious Eskie, have you ever found a therapist who isn’t empathetic of any help at all?

They are supposed to help on the “journey” to explore the mind and to “take action” (or in some cases there isn’t much of a journey at all as they are full of **** .. or the “patient” is “resistant” etc) but I would think those far down on the empathy scale would be .....

unless they are extraordinarily good actors. And our unconscious mind would pick that up anyway even if we weren’t fully able to verbalise it

I don’t know where I’m going with this but can’t be bothered to delete it. It’s way past my bed time. Goodnight

(You know that yawn is not usually an insult. I’ve been posting them for years. I find them cute

)

eskielover · Jun 20, 2019 at 07:32 AM

I am so happy you didn't delete anything.
These are outstanding discussion points Fuzzy :hug; very interesting thread.

Just like taking care of a problem doesn't require empathy neither does being a good T. They just have to be capable of understanding the person's problem (not feeling their feelings) & knowing what is needed to help them.

The only 2 wonderful T's I have have ever had are the last 2 (others were mostly a waste of time & $). The help of these 2 gave had nothing to do with being empathetic. They weren't/ aren't empathetic but they are understanding, caring, & wise. My really best T ever is the one I have now. She taught skills along with how the mind actually works. Her whole focus was on getting us to PRACTICE the skills daily & to understand them until they were integrated into our lives. This was based on DBT but went far beyond just DBT.

I related well probably because she taught the information like outstanding professors I had in college where you didn't just learn material but provided an in depth understanding so that you knew that you knew what you knew.

She is very understanding, caring & sympathetic but I think the understanding ability is her highest quality. Understanding is not the same as empathetic. I am the kind of person that doesn't need empathy....I just need understanding so I can get guidance for what was/is missing in my understanding of life so I can learn & integrate it into my own life. She planted seeds & I cultivated them within myself with her guidance along the way in group & with my private T monthly.

I was not in touch with any of my feelings other than anger when I got in with my good T's. I didn't even have the words to express what I was really feeling so we worked in my private sessions on listing (from a 5 page list of feelings) everything I was feeling & EXACTLY WHY I was feeling that feeling. Once I was MINDFUL (fully aware) of all the feelings I was experiencing & exactly why I was feeling those feelings I finally had words to express myself I never had before in my life.

For me it was all a growing awareness of myself but because I have always been a logical thinking person this all had to be understood with my logical mind for it to make any sense to me.

That is where a good T is understanding of the NEEDS of their client & is able to approach them from where they are coming from. Our wise mind uses our logical & emotional mind to deal with problems. It is when we feel the balance between our logical & emotional mind that we know we have a "wise mind" solution & feel a peace with our decisions & we can do this on our own without needing someone outside ourselves to tell us it is ok. This is kinda like seeing the bird struggling & feeling bad for it & knowing it needs help from the struggling we have observed (emotional mind at work) then logical mind takes over & determines a ladder & scissors are needed to solve the birds problem. We don't need everyone around us to agree the bird has a problem...we KNOW it. We know what is needed for the solution & we seek out what we need to solve it. We need someone to show us where the ladder is & it is wise to have someone hold the ladder while we climb to help the bird....but it is not necessary to have everyone that sees the bird say wow it does need help & you don't even need others there to help unless you just physically can't do it yourself

My T is great at validating our why's we feel the way we feel but beyond that she taught us how to SELF validate as we don't always have others around us let alone others who are able to validate. Kinda like a turtle & it's shell, we carry our validation ability around with us.

I know that some people need empathy in their therapy where others don't. That is why it is important to find a T that fits our needs....but it is just as important that they provide good quality therapy also. Learning to be mindful requires BOTH the individuals use of the logical mind along with the emotional mind. It is not an either or kinda thing & it is important for a good T to draw both these thinking capabilities out of the person. There may be trauma issues that need to be dealt with first but in the long run these skills are necessary to function within our own selves. We need to end up an integrated package not just a logical or emotional one.

TishaBuv · Jun 20, 2019 at 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzybear

I’m done with being treated like a doormat.

The next person who tries to treat me like **** ........

Will get my door slammed in their face.

(Not about anyone on pc)

My mom used to yell at my sister about how she was a doormat. She was verbally abusive to encourage her daughter to be a stronger person.

I’m glad you won’t let people walk all over you, Fuzzy. Along with OE, I am also glad to see you using your words more.

OE— Isn’t it ironic that the focus of the horse event was cognitive empathy, but they all turned a blind eye to the struggling bird? It’s like it was a test!

I’ve found you can’t make people care and have empathy if they don’t. If you have something they want, they may fake it.

Jun 20, 2019 at 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

I’ve found you can’t make people care and have empathy if they don’t.

But you can. Easily, even.

Fuzzybear · Jun 20, 2019 at 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theoretical

But you can. Easily, even.

You can

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Fuzzybear Wisest Elder Ever Member Since Nov 2002 Location: Cave. Posts: 96,325 (SuperPoster!) 21 81.2k hugs given	Jun 19, 2019 at 05:33 PM #23 OE....I tend to try to empathise also. __________________
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Fuzzybear Wisest Elder Ever Member Since Nov 2002 Location: Cave. Posts: 96,325 (SuperPoster!) 21 81.2k hugs given	Jun 19, 2019 at 09:32 PM #31 Idk Eskie... I think OE’s example is rather different to the example you’re describing...in many different ways I’m curious where both of you are on the “empath” scale (if there even is one..) (To anyone who happens to be reading...) Please no debates or posts saying empaths do not exist. __________________
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Fuzzybear Wisest Elder Ever Member Since Nov 2002 Location: Cave. Posts: 96,325 (SuperPoster!) 21 81.2k hugs given	Jun 19, 2019 at 09:35 PM #32 “Sometimes our own emotional expectations can be our own worst enemy” ... sometimes.. I agree. __________________
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Open Eyes Legendary Wise Elder Member Since Mar 2011 Location: Northeast USA Posts: 23,111 (SuperPoster!) 13 21.3k hugs given	Jun 19, 2019 at 09:40 PM #33 Nope wasn't like that, pretty much everyone walked away, did not care and it was not seeing me doing anything no one was there when the problem was finally fixed. It was more that no one wanted to stop and help the bird, looked up and walked away, no concern at all. More like it was stupid to care sentiment.
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